tOfficial "Derek Jeter Retirement Circus" Thread

[HammerDown]

Wait, wut?

Jetes hasn't had a 3 RBI game in 2 years?!

 

[thedddd]

Depends...he is only in the top 5 if you ignore players from about 1920 - 1999

LOL...

Rivera
Pettite
Posada
Cano
B. Williams
A-Roid
Clemens
Damon
Sheffield
Wang
CC
Joba
Randy Choate
then maybe Jeter....

 

[Loneranger]

the Jeter no one talks about

"Yet in what is almost certainly his final week as a major leaguer, Derek Jeter still reigns as baseball’s perfect man because he’s so darn smooth at walking the tightrope. At making people feel good about giving him their money or their time in return for a handshake, a photo or simply sharing a large room with him with hundreds of other people."

"On Monday, Jeter pushed it some more, appearing at a midtown Manhattan theater where fans paid a range of four-figure prices to pose for a photo (the higher end) or just witness a mildly entertaining, half-hour conversation between the Yankees’ retiring shortstop and notorious memorabilia schlockmeister Brandon Steiner (the lower end). “The Captain’s Farewell,” they called it. Again, he emerged unscathed. Then he headed to the Bronx and contributed a two-run double, a walk and an RBI groundout to the Yankees’ 5-0 blanking of the Orioles."

Jeter has been filling his pockets all season and he made a point of doing it. If he had HALF the class we're told he has he would have announced his retirement AFTER this season and never subjected himself to this. Save the BS about his "foundation" getting donations from teams. What he did yesterday was not the 1st nor the last. The guy has made hundreds of millions in this game and he has the balls to put his name on this puke fest yesterday - all the money went to Jeter (his pocket) and the creeps at Steiner. Entry fee for the full Derek Jeter stroke job photo op for 1 fan was $3000.

Hypocritical Jeter always ? somehow ? comes out on top | New York Post

 

[Indrid Cold]

Jesus Christ, the poor guy has only earned a bit more than $265 million in salary for his career...he's gotta do what he can to feed his family, or at least save up to feed the family he might have one day (not counting a probable small army of Jetes' bastard children).

 

[Loneranger]

here's a comment on the NY Post site at the bottom of this article. Hard to argue with this guy.


"YOU ARE IN A MINORITY but there is no question that jeter has always been hopelessly in love with himself. that fans fail to see his selfishness is sad to witness . one day people will find out about the real jeter. nothing in life goes un-recorded. he could have gone to the mgr. and offered to hit in a less important place in the order but his arrogance won't allow himself to take the high rd. even most umpires are intimidated often times giving jeter a ball four walk when all watching can plainly see the pitch was belt high down the middle. jeter has been a very good productive player for many years, but in no way can he be classified as one of baseballs impact legends. never winning a batting title, home run or r b i title NEVER WINNING AN M V P TITLE HITTING ONLY ONE HOME RUN WITH THE BASES LOADED IN 268 AT BATS AND MOST REVEALING IS THE FACT HE WAS ALMOST NEVER GIVEN AN INTENTIONAL WALK TO PITCH TO THE ON DECK HITTER. CLEARLY THE PITCHERS NEVER FAINTED FROM FRIGHT WHEN HE CAME TO BAT. HE IS A HALL OF FAMER BUT I COULD EASILY NAME 200 OR MORE MUCH GREATER PLAYERS THAN JETER. DON'T BE AN IDIOT AND CALL ME A CLOSET RED SOX FAN, I HAVE BEEN AN AVID YANKEE FAN SINCE 1942 WHEN I ATTENDED MY FIRST GAME. WHEN YOU HAVE SEEN THE LATE 30S, 40S, AND 50 PLAYERS OF DIMAGGIO, GEHRIG, WILLIAMS MUSIAL, MAYS MANTLE KINER, KALINE CLEMENTE, FRANK ROBINSON, GREENBERG, WILLY MCCOVEY, STARGELL, IS THERE ANY ONE WITH AN I.Q.ABOVE PLANT LIFE WHO WOULD TAKE JETER OVER KEN GRIFFY JR? HOW ABOUT TONY GWYENN WHO WON 8 BATTING TITLES AND HIT OVER 300 19 YEARS IN A ROW. DO ANY JETER FANS EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS? THIS SICK RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WRITERS IS PATHETIC. I HAVE ONLY MENTIONED A FEW MUCH GREATER PLAYERS. JETER BEING COMPARED TO DIMAGGIO IS LIKE MICKEY ROONEY BEING COMPARED TO JOHN WAYNE OR CLARK GABLE."

 

[StanMarsh51]

here's a comment on the NY Post site at the bottom of this article. Hard to argue with this guy.


"YOU ARE IN A MINORITY but there is no question that jeter has always been hopelessly in love with himself. that fans fail to see his selfishness is sad to witness . one day people will find out about the real jeter. nothing in life goes un-recorded. he could have gone to the mgr. and offered to hit in a less important place in the order but his arrogance won't allow himself to take the high rd. even most umpires are intimidated often times giving jeter a ball four walk when all watching can plainly see the pitch was belt high down the middle. jeter has been a very good productive player for many years, but in no way can he be classified as one of baseballs impact legends. never winning a batting title, home run or r b i title NEVER WINNING AN M V P TITLE HITTING ONLY ONE HOME RUN WITH THE BASES LOADED IN 268 AT BATS AND MOST REVEALING IS THE FACT HE WAS ALMOST NEVER GIVEN AN INTENTIONAL WALK TO PITCH TO THE ON DECK HITTER. CLEARLY THE PITCHERS NEVER FAINTED FROM FRIGHT WHEN HE CAME TO BAT. HE IS A HALL OF FAMER BUT I COULD EASILY NAME 200 OR MORE MUCH GREATER PLAYERS THAN JETER. DON'T BE AN IDIOT AND CALL ME A CLOSET RED SOX FAN, I HAVE BEEN AN AVID YANKEE FAN SINCE 1942 WHEN I ATTENDED MY FIRST GAME. WHEN YOU HAVE SEEN THE LATE 30S, 40S, AND 50 PLAYERS OF DIMAGGIO, GEHRIG, WILLIAMS MUSIAL, MAYS MANTLE KINER, KALINE CLEMENTE, FRANK ROBINSON, GREENBERG, WILLY MCCOVEY, STARGELL, IS THERE ANY ONE WITH AN I.Q.ABOVE PLANT LIFE WHO WOULD TAKE JETER OVER KEN GRIFFY JR? HOW ABOUT TONY GWYENN WHO WON 8 BATTING TITLES AND HIT OVER 300 19 YEARS IN A ROW. DO ANY JETER FANS EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS? THIS SICK RELATIONSHIP WITH THE WRITERS IS PATHETIC. I HAVE ONLY MENTIONED A FEW MUCH GREATER PLAYERS. JETER BEING COMPARED TO DIMAGGIO IS LIKE MICKEY ROONEY BEING COMPARED TO JOHN WAYNE OR CLARK GABLE."

So you think it's hard to argue with him when he says there are easily 200+ much greater players than Jeter?

 

[Loneranger]

So you think it's hard to argue with him when he says there are easily 200+ much greater players than Jeter?

I wouldn't argue that for a minute. If we want to look at baseball history and all the true greats its very difficult to HONESTLY put Jeter up there with the best of the best. He's been a good player and a key piece to some great teams. He isn't an all time great.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I wouldn't argue that for a minute. If we want to look at baseball history and all the true greats its very difficult to HONESTLY put Jeter up there with the best of the best. He's been a good player and a key piece to some great teams. He isn't an all time great.

You could definitely (and rightfully) argue that he's not in the class of the Ruth, Mays, Williams, Mantle, Musial etc, but to find 200? That's pushing it, especially for a guy who's in the top 100 all time in WAR.

 

[Loneranger]

You could definitely (and rightfully) argue that he's not in the class of the Ruth, Mays, Williams, Mantle, Musial etc, but to find 200? That's pushing it, especially for a guy who's in the top 100 all time in WAR.

I certainly won't take the time to look for 200 but if I did I bet I would come close. Keep in mind I'm a lifelong Yankee fan and have watched him from day 1. He's been a big part of the great teams but even on those teams he was never THE guy. He was a contributor but wasn't the one expected to carry the team. He moved runners along ,picked up 3000 broken bat blooper singles over the 2nd baseman's head and racked up some numbers. Nothing wrong with that , but it doesn't equate to all time great status IMO. Many will disagree with me and that's fine , I don't have a problem with that. I'm just going by what I watched and I saw a guy who was pretty good , more effective than most but never the best in his own league let alone the game.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I certainly won't take the time to look for 200 but if I did I bet I would come close. Keep in mind I'm a lifelong Yankee fan and have watched him from day 1. He's been a big part of the great teams but even on those teams he was never THE guy. He was a contributor but wasn't the one expected to carry the team. He moved runners along ,picked up 3000 broken bat blooper singles over the 2nd baseman's head and racked up some numbers. Nothing wrong with that , but it doesn't equate to all time great status IMO. Many will disagree with me and that's fine , I don't have a problem with that. I'm just going by what I watched and I saw a guy who was pretty good , more effective than most but never the best in his own league let alone the game.

I certainly think there will be a lot of stretches if you tried to make a list of 200.


The quicker/simpler war would be to just go down the list of all-time WAR players (where Jeter is 88th)....how many players ranked below him on that list would you say had better careers?

Career Leaders &amp Records for WAR Position Players | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[navamind]

No way. He's easily top 100 for me, not sure about top 50 (at least not off the top of my head).

 

[Loneranger]

this is what I think of WAR. I understand you want to base everything off this "stat" but I'm not going to. What I will do is illustrate why it's flawed and it isn't a realistic measure of anything relevant to ranking Jeter all time. These players are tied at 193.
193.Brett Butler (17)49.4L Ralph Kiner+ (10)49.4R Bernie Williams (16)

 

[StanMarsh51]

this is what I think of WAR. I understand you want to base everything off this "stat" but I'm not going to. What I will do is illustrate why it's flawed and it isn't a realistic measure of anything relevant to ranking Jeter all time. These players are tied at 193.
193.Brett Butler (17)49.4L Ralph Kiner+ (10)49.4R Bernie Williams (16)

You numbers in parenthesis explain why those three have similar totals...Kiner played only 10 seasons, one of which was only 117 games....WAR's a combination of both an accumulation stat and a performance stat, so if you're playing just 9 full years, you're going to have a difficult time in the accumulation part.

If you did a per 162 game average WAR, Kiner comes out ahead by a good margin.

 

[Loneranger]

further take a look at the players ranked below Jeter on this WAR stat thing you posted. The players BELOW Jeter include : Tony Gwynn ,Alan Trammel , Barry Larkin ,Edgar Martinez(a jeter equal with the glove),Eddie Murray , ERNIE FREAKIN BANKS ! , Craig Biggio ,Willie McCovey , Todd Helton , Chase Utley and on and on and on. It simply doesn't work.

 

[Loneranger]

You numbers in parenthesis explain why those three have similar totals...Kiner played only 10 seasons, one of which was only 117 games....WAR's a combination of both an accumulation stat and a performance stat, so if you're playing just 9 full years, you're going to have a difficult time in the accumulation part.

If you did a per 162 game average WAR, Kiner comes out ahead by a good margin.

we should probably be talking about Kiner becuz he has never gotten the credit he deserves.

 

[Loneranger]

You numbers in parenthesis explain why those three have similar totals...Kiner played only 10 seasons, one of which was only 117 games....WAR's a combination of both an accumulation stat and a performance stat, so if you're playing just 9 full years, you're going to have a difficult time in the accumulation part.

If you did a per 162 game average WAR, Kiner comes out ahead by a good margin.

btw your efforts are appreciated becuz if we're gonna have a debate we have to base it off something and I didn't post anything to compare anyone.

 

[StanMarsh51]

further take a look at the players ranked below Jeter on this WAR stat thing you posted. The players BELOW Jeter include : Tony Gwynn ,Alan Trammel , Barry Larkin ,Edgar Martinez(a jeter equal with the glove),Eddie Murray , ERNIE FREAKIN BANKS ! , Craig Biggio ,Willie McCovey , Todd Helton , Chase Utley and on and on and on. It simply doesn't work.

10 is a far cry from the 110+ that would be needed to place Jeter out of the top 200.

Todd Helton? You mean the guy whose numbers are severely inflated from Coors (baseballreference WAR is ballpark adjusted, so that hurts him), played the least demanding position on the diamond (that detracts from value), and had a 133 career OPS+, which for 1B isn't all that great?

Chase Utley's career hasn't been long enough to surpass Jeter in WAR, although he should pass him with a few more quality seasons.

As for Banks, playing 1B for half his career doesn't help him, nor does being a .274 hitter with a .330 OBP. He had power but for much of his career there wasn't much else. His career OPS+ is 122, which isn't far from Jeter's 115 (and that's with Jeter's entire career at SS).



WAR's not perfect by any means, but I'd trust it more than say someone who places a huge premium on things like grand slams, HR and RBI, and intentional walks (such as the NYPost commenter does).

 

[Loneranger]

since this is my thread i'll high jack it from myself. I don't think any baseball discussion can take place about anyone or anything without Stan Musial being mentioned in the 1st 5 seconds. I know we all agree he was incredible but he was WAY beyond that. He was one of the very very best to ever strap it up. Ok I'm done , thanks for your patience and consideration. I feel better now.

 

[Loneranger]

10 is a far cry from the 110+ that would be needed to place Jeter out of the top 200.

Todd Helton? You mean the guy whose numbers are severely inflated from Coors (baseballreference WAR is ballpark adjusted, so that hurts him), played the least demanding position on the diamond (that detracts from value), and had a 133 career OPS+, which for 1B isn't all that great?

Chase Utley's career hasn't been long enough to surpass Jeter in WAR, although he'd pass him with a few more quality seasons.

As for Banks, playing 1B for half his career doesn't help him, nor does being a .274 hitter with a .330 OBP. His career OPS+ is 122, which isn't far from Jeter's 115 (and that's with Jeter's entire career at SS).

but we're talking about who "we" would take/rank as opposed to Jeter. I'll take Ernie Banks everyday of the week including Sunday and I don't care if he's warming up pitchers in the bullpen. Jeter should have player 1st base most of his career IMHO.

 

[Loneranger]

ok I gotta run gentlemen. Time to go buy my hunting license before they're all gone! Hunting season kicks off Saturday and I gotta get this shit out of the way. Maybe i'll run into Stan the Man!