tOfficial "2014 LeBron James" Superthread

[purguy12]

The Finals record is way overrated. How many times did Jordan lose before he could get there? Whether you lose in the 2nd round or the Finals, you still lost. At least getting there you can say you were closer.

I disagree. When you are there you need to shine and win. Just like Payton getting killed in the Super bowl, that hurt his legacy(1-2 in superbowls). Miami got crushed by the Spurs. It was embarrassing for the Heat and LBJ. They got blown out 4 of 5 games.

 

[Heatles84]

Go back to Cleveland where it all started. Winning one if Cleveland will help your legacy. He would have to win 3 more with Miami to get back in the Top 5 talk.

I never understood this crap. How would winning a title in Cleveland throw him over the likes of Shaq and Kobe who have 4 and 5 titles respectively?

Yes, it would be Cleveland's first title and it would be a nice story (I guess). But if players get an extra bonus for winning a franchise's first title, then I guess Wade technically has more than 3 since he was the main reason Miami won in 2006. The same could be said about Duncan with the Spurs, Jordan with the Bulls, Dirk with the Mavs.

 

[RazorsEdge]

He needs to stay in Miami and finish what he claimed to have started. Anything else looks weak. If he can win 1 or 2 more there over the next 3-4 years, then I would say he could head to Cleveland to finish his career. Even with Kyrie and Wiggins im not convinced that the Cavs are primed to win titles yet anyway.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Did magic leave his team after making it to the Finals to join a power team and then said they would win 6 titles, then lose the 1st time out with that power team and then lose another on his way out. NO

Cant compare. 2 different situations. Magic has 5 Rings. 9 Final appearances. Still has a winning record in the Finals.

Being on more than one team doesn't tarnish anything. Magic lost 4 times in the Finals. Yes, he has 5 rings and that's all that matters.

Getting to the Finals > losing before the Finals...everytime

 

[Shanemansj13]

He needs to stay in Miami and finish what he claimed to have started. Anything else looks weak. If he can win 1 or 2 more there over the next 3-4 years, then I would say he could head to Cleveland to finish his career. Even with Kyrie and Wiggins im not convinced that the Cavs are primed to win titles yet anyway.

Well it all depends on how good Wiggins turns out and they have opportunities in free agency and trades to build around him. If Wiggins doesn't pan out, than it is all Kyrie...again. Which would suck!

 

[SoPortland]

I disagree. When you are there you need to shine and win. Just like Payton getting killed in the Super bowl, that hurt his legacy(1-2 in superbowls). Miami got crushed by the Spurs. It was embarrassing for the Heat and LBJ. They got blown out 4 of 5 games.

Guess Kaep's legacy is completely in the shitter then. Can't win the big games.

Who cares if his team's defense couldn't do shit in the first half?

 

[SoPortland]

Why do people keep discounting the fact that Lebron's first trip to the finals was with a team that would've lost to every playoff team in the West that year? They had no business being in the Finals.

 

[Triplexxx23]

The knicks was expecting for carmelo to decide yesterday.. But it was put on hold?? I wonder if he still have on his mind to join lebron james.. The whole bosh thing going to Houston seems to have caught some attention... That would be a slap in the face to knicks and lakers if carmelo picked the heat and join Lebron and wade lol

 

[Heatles84]

The knicks was expecting for carmelo to decide yesterday.. But it was put on hold?? I wonder if he still have on his mind to join lebron james.. The whole bosh thing going to Houston seems to have caught some attention... That would be a slap in the face to knicks and lakers if carmelo picked the heat and join Lebron and wade lol

I'm ok with it.

 

[mick7-1961]

 

[trojanfan12]

Is Magic's legacy hurt? No.

Magic has a few more rings.

 

[mick7-1961]

 

[trojanfan12]

Moving teams looks tacky, anything over 1 move and you look like a cheap rental player. Shaq crapped all over his legacy by doing that, Lebron needs to avoid that.

I agree. As far as his legacy goes, if he goes back to Cleveland and gets them a title, it definitely helps him.

But if he hops from team to team, he just looks like he's doing exactly what Riley talked about in that presser and bailing when the going gets tough.


It would permanently remove him from any GOAT conversation, no matter how many rings he got.

 

[trojanfan12]

I disagree. When you are there you need to shine and win. Just like Payton getting killed in the Super bowl, that hurt his legacy(1-2 in superbowls). Miami got crushed by the Spurs. It was embarrassing for the Heat and LBJ. They got blown out 4 of 5 games.

Yeah, the finals record might be a little overrated, but not much. The finals are the biggest stage and it's about how you perform when you get there.


MJ was 6-0 in the finals, Magic was 5-4, Kobe is 5-2, Bird was 3-2, Lebron is 2-3. No getting around that.

 

[trojanfan12]

I never understood this crap. How would winning a title in Cleveland throw him over the likes of Shaq and Kobe who have 4 and 5 titles respectively?

Yes, it would be Cleveland's first title and it would be a nice story (I guess). But if players get an extra bonus for winning a franchise's first title, then I guess Wade technically has more than 3 since he was the main reason Miami won in 2006. The same could be said about Duncan with the Spurs, Jordan with the Bulls, Dirk with the Mavs.

I think the difference would be that it would be the city of Cleveland's 1st title. Miami at least has had the '72 Dolphins and a couple of NC's from the 'Canes.

Cleveland has the..........................?

 

[HammerDown]

"Dan Gilbert is such a douchebag." - Jim Irsay

 

[gordontrue]

If LeBron goes somewhere other than Miami or Cleveland (at this point not looking very likely)... he would be playing for his 3rd team in 12 seasons.

Shaq, 3 teams in first 13 years, 6 total
Charles Barkley, 3 teams in first 13 years, 3 total
Scottie Pippen, 3 teams in first 13 years, 3 total
Bob McAdoo, 6 teams in first 12 years, 7 total
Adrian Dantley, 5 teams in first 12 years, 7 total
Moses Malone, 5 teams in first 12 years, 8 total
Elvin Hayes, 5 teams in first 12 years, 6 total
Jerry Lucas, 3 teams in first 12 years, 3 total
Dominique Wilkins, 3 teams in first 12 years, 5 total
Pistol Pete, 4 teams in first 12 years, 4 total
Wes Unseld, 3 teams in first 12 years, 3 total
Alonzo Mourning, 3 teams in first 12 years, 3 total
Bernard king, 5 teams in first 12 years, 6 total

For players that started as Lakers or Celtics... I'm not going to give them too much credit for staying with one of the 2 greatest historical franchises in the league.

 

[trojanfan12]

If LeBron goes somewhere other than Miami or Cleveland (at this point not looking very likely)... he would be playing for his 3rd team in 12 seasons.

Shaq, 3 teams in first 13 years, 6 total
Charles Barkley, 3 teams in first 13 years, 3 total
Scottie Pippen, 3 teams in first 13 years, 3 total
Bob McAdoo, 6 teams in first 12 years, 7 total
Adrian Dantley, 5 teams in first 12 years, 7 total
Moses Malone, 5 teams in first 12 years, 8 total
Elvin Hayes, 5 teams in first 12 years, 6 total
Jerry Lucas, 3 teams in first 12 years, 3 total
Dominique Wilkins, 3 teams in first 12 years, 5 total
Pistol Pete, 4 teams in first 12 years, 4 total
Wes Unseld, 3 teams in first 12 years, 3 total
Alonzo Mourning, 3 teams in first 12 years, 3 total
Bernard king, 5 teams in first 12 years, 6 total

For players that started as Lakers or Celtics... I'm not going to give them too much credit for staying with one of the 2 greatest historical franchises in the league.

How many of those players on your list are in the discussion for GOAT, though?

Here are the players who most commonly appear/have appeared in that discussion:

Bill Russell - 1 team his entire career
Michael Jordan - 2 teams in his entire career (and the second was for 2 seasons and a few years after he had retired from the Bulls)
Magic Johnson - 1 team in his entire career
Larry Bird - 1 team in his entire career
Kobe Bryant - 1 team in his entire career (so far)

See the difference?

 

[gordontrue]

How many of those players on your list are in the discussion for GOAT, though?

Here are the players who most commonly appear/have appeared in that discussion:

Bill Russell - 1 team his entire career
Michael Jordan - 2 teams in his entire career (and the second was for 2 seasons and a few years after he had retired from the Bulls)
Magic Johnson - 1 team in his entire career
Larry Bird - 1 team in his entire career
Kobe Bryant - 1 team in his entire career (so far)

See the difference?

Yes, that's a point worth making, for sure.

But why are those guys not on the GOAT list? Because of their multiple teams? I don't think so. There are plenty of other surface reasons for each of them. Those guys are considered some of the greats of the game, and you never hear anyone question that because of the number of teams they played for.

IMO, Jordan is really the only player to ever stick with 1 team and turn them into a dynasty. The rest of those guys were drafted onto dynasties. (Not to take away from their individual importance to the team, but they found themselves in GREAT situations right from the start)

What I'm really trying to say... is that just because the GOAT candidates of the past were on 1 team... that isn't a reason that GOAT candidates of that future can't be on more teams.

If Jordan had won 2 titles each on 3 different teams, and LeBron had stuck with Cleveland and won a couple titles so far... the narrative would be "Yeah, but can LeBron prove that he is the greatest by taking other teams to championships too? The truly great ones show that it doesn't matter which franchise you put them with, they will find a way".

Sometimes, we make aspects of how the great ones in the past did things becomes aspects of how things should be done... when it doesn't really make sense.

 

[gordontrue]

From Grantland. I completely agree. Fans love to bash players because they are more visible and the fans are jealous of their wealth. In a strange twist, this usually has fans siding with the even more wealthy owners.

This puts star players in an impossible position: accept a pay cut “for the good of the team” or look like a glutton. When stars take pay cuts to stay together, fans rail against their collusion and call the NBA product a rigged game. When stars chase the money, fans rip them as pigs.

The stars can’t win, in part because the NBA has created a system in which a player maximizing his individual income makes it harder for his team to build a competitive roster around him. But are people — media, fans, GMs — overstating the difficulty of that challenge? Maybe the onus should be on teams to spend wisely enough so they can accommodate multiple star players without prodding those stars to “sacrifice” in pointed public comments.