T'official 2014-15 NFL thread

[forty_three]

yup cfl teams and their players really are out front on the domestic violence issue ... it really became an "organized league issue" after Josh Boden

So a group realized the implications of inaction and acted to change the culture?

Sounds Canadian.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

So a group realized the implications of inaction and acted to change the culture?

Sounds Canadian.

I was gonna ask in my previous post when did Rae Carruth kill his pregnant wife (but didnt want to be a total ass ) but wasnt sure what the NFL has currently in terms of a leaguewide public service support mandate for domestic violence ... i know they are heavy with United Way which is pretty all encompassing and helps people and women who face these issues every day

 

[forty_three]

I was gonna ask in my previous post when did Rae Carruth kill his pregnant wife (but didnt want to be a total ass ) but wasnt sure what the NFL has currently in terms of a leaguewide public service support mandate for domestic violence ... i know they are heavy with United Way which is pretty all encompassing and helps people and women who face these issues every day

Go ahead. Be a total ass. I am tired of being the only one

 

[dash]

I will be curious to see what the Stamps decide to do with Quincy Butler in the off-season (he was charged with assaulting a cabbie outside a Calgary casino in May) pled guilty, and was sentenced to 18 months probation and ordered to provide 10 grand to the cabbie as restitution. The Stamps to their credit suspended him from the beginning of the season until his court case was heard in August and everything was finalized, but I see he is on the active roster for tomorrow's game against the Arrrrrrrrrrrgos.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I was gonna ask in my previous post when did Rae Carruth kill his pregnant wife (but didnt want to be a total ass ) but wasnt sure what the NFL has currently in terms of a leaguewide public service support mandate for domestic violence ... i know they are heavy with United Way which is pretty all encompassing and helps people and women who face these issues every day

Good thing you didn't ask that, because you sure would have looked stupid. It was his casual girlfriend and he was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder because he hired someone else to do it.

:rollseyes:

 

[pixburgher66]

I was gonna ask in my previous post when did Rae Carruth kill his pregnant wife (but didnt want to be a total ass ) but wasnt sure what the NFL has currently in terms of a leaguewide public service support mandate for domestic violence ... i know they are heavy with United Way which is pretty all encompassing and helps people and women who face these issues every day

William Gay (CB for Steelers) has a PSA about it because his father killed his mother as a kid.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I'm reading up on the Greg Hardy stuff now, and I sure hope that the big media catches this and runs with it too. Having that (and the fact that he's playing after being found guilty, although awaiting trial by jury) on top of this Rice mess may be enough to push it over the edge. If there was zero video of Rice (as in there had been no outside the elevator video) he'd be playing and have zero suspension. So it's time for the NFL to make a stand, one way or another. If they let Hardy go then they've made a stand: we need hard video evidence to make a decision. If they do something about it, then maybe it becomes a trend. Maybe. You're right in that the pressure is on the public to do something about it. We can't simply get burnt out on a story like we usually do. Can't simply slink away or move on to the next disgusting story.

For the record, despite being a Panthers fan, I'm not defending Hardy if he's guilty. I'm just pointing out that there are some pretty significant differences vs. the Rice situation and some intricacies to the case in NC.

However, given that I live where all this is playing out, I've read quite a bit about it. Hardy has been convicted in a judge-trial only. The way the law works in NC (not sure if this is unique or not, but that's how it is) is that when you're convicted of a misdemeanor (as he was) in a judge-trial, when you file an appeal for a jury trial, the jury trial is conducted as though there was no original guilty verdict.

The practical effect of this is that, instead of having to provide evidence sufficient to overturn the original conviction like in a normal appeals court, you have the burden of proof residing entirely with the prosecution as in any normal criminal proceeding. So while he has been found guilty, that guilty verdict is more-or-less thrown out when the court agrees to give him a jury trial.

The other main difference between his situation and Rice's is that Hardy maintains his innocence and didn't agree to any type of plea like Rice did. Rice was likely not 100% honest (shocking, I know), but he didn't completely deny it either.

 

[pixburgher66]

For the record, despite being a Panthers fan, I'm not defending Hardy if he's guilty. I'm just pointing out that there are some pretty significant differences vs. the Rice situation and some intricacies to the case in NC.

However, given that I live where all this is playing out, I've read quite a bit about it. Hardy has been convicted in a judge-trial only. The way the law works in NC (not sure if this is unique or not, but that's how it is) is that when you're convicted of a misdemeanor (as he was) in a judge-trial, when you file an appeal for a jury trial, the jury trial is conducted as though there was no original guilty verdict.

The practical effect of this is that, instead of having to provide evidence sufficient to overturn the original conviction like in a normal appeals court, you have the burden of proof residing entirely with the prosecution as in any normal criminal proceeding. So while he has been found guilty, that guilty verdict is more-or-less thrown out when the court agrees to give him a jury trial.

The other main difference between his situation and Rice's is that Hardy maintains his innocence and didn't agree to any type of plea like Rice did. Rice was likely not 100% honest (shocking, I know), but he didn't completely deny it either.

I mean, Rice pleading guilty when he knew there was video evidence and a guy pleading not guilty when there's not...is...well...not surprising. I understand the conversation when it comes to allowing due process, HOWEVER, playing in the NFL isn't a right. Every American has the right to a fair trial in the eyes of the law, but in the eyes of NFL, it's not actually necessary. Now, if it had been the case that he hadn't gone through any form of trial, I'd understand a bit more (like I believe the McDonald case in SF), but I don't think there could be any blame to the NFL for levying a suspension following the guilty verdict from a judge.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I mean, Rice pleading guilty when he knew there was video evidence and a guy pleading not guilty when there's not...is...well...not surprising. I understand the conversation when it comes to allowing due process, HOWEVER, playing in the NFL isn't a right. Every American has the right to a fair trial in the eyes of the law, but in the eyes of NFL, it's not actually necessary. Now, if it had been the case that he hadn't gone through any form of trial, I'd understand a bit more (like I believe the McDonald case in SF), but I don't think there could be any blame to the NFL for levying a suspension following the guilty verdict from a judge.

Absolutely, the NFL could (and should) still impose a punishment.

Their assertion that they want to let the legal process play out is still valid in this case simply because it's not closed. They're not terribly consistent on that point though, which is why I think they should still suspend him for it.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

William Gay (CB for Steelers) has a PSA about it because his father killed his mother as a kid.

i meant more of a league wide support thing ... the cfl team here has bombarded the media with their message ... its on tv or the side of buses or on radio ... "be more than a bystander" or "break the silence on violence against women"

Id say its the CFLs number 2 "issue" that they support after Tackle Hunger

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Good thing you didn't ask that, because you sure would have looked stupid. It was his casual girlfriend and he was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder because he hired someone else to do it.

:rollseyes:

woo hoo ... another asshole joins the club

 

[dash]

woo hoo ... another asshole joins the club

quarter-douche at least

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

As far as Hardy is concerned the Panthers can suspend him with pay, but not putting him on their roster for games. Every team has 8 players they don't dress every Sunday. If Hardy wasn't an important player to the Panthers he wouldn't be playing.

 

[pixburgher66]

Absolutely, the NFL could (and should) still impose a punishment.

Their assertion that they want to let the legal process play out is still valid in this case simply because it's not closed. They're not terribly consistent on that point though, which is why I think they should still suspend him for it.

Mike & Mike - ESPN

Go down to the "Video Highlight" and Chris Carter and Mike Golic talk about it, quite eloquently. He pretty much talks to that point: needs to be consistent reaction to this topic, "define some lines". "Everyone deserves due process, not everyone deserves to play in the national football league." Listening to the guys who were in the league talk about those ruining it's name is interesting.


Side note: Chris Carter deserves more air time. Dang.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

As far as Hardy is concerned the Panthers can suspend him with pay, but not putting him on their roster for games. Every team has 8 players they don't dress every Sunday. If Hardy wasn't an important player to the Panthers he wouldn't be playing.

They can suspend him without pay for up to 4 games also for conduct detrimental to the team.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Here's actually a pretty good overview of the Hardy situation from the Charlotte Observer:

Where does Carolina Panthers’ DE Greg Hardy’s case stand? Here’s a primer | CharlotteObserver.com

 

[pixburgher66]

Also, I kinda had hoped back when it happened that the Roethlisberger case would become precedent...or at least closer to it. He wasn't afforded due process of law before the NFL stepped in, although a slightly different case. Sexual assault v. domestic abuse.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Also, I kinda had hoped back when it happened that the Roethlisberger case would become precedent...or at least closer to it. He wasn't afforded due process of law before the NFL stepped in, although a slightly different case. Sexual assault v. domestic abuse.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that the second time he was accused also?

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

They can suspend him without pay for up to 4 games also for conduct detrimental to the team.

This would have happened already if Hardy wasn't such an important player to the Panthers.

 

[pixburgher66]

*slams on the breaks*

(Excuse the capital letters, this is necessary)

ISN'T THE WOMAN IN THE HARDY CASE THE SAME ONE FROM THE MAYWEATHER CASE?

If you want even crazier, look up that crap. Psycho.