Time to start worrying about Ackley?

[seattlefan75]

My very big problem with smoak is that hes not doing his job. thats great that your drawing walks and hitting these singles but thats what players like Andino, and Ryan are suppose to do. your a giant of a man playing firstbase, he should be taking monster swings with a little high Strikeout numbers and lower BA like .255-.260 BUT should be hitting monster homers like 35-40 and driving RBI's. Miguel Cabrera, David Ortiz, Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard etc none of them can run bases all that well or even field the ball all that great either but that bat IS NO JOKE. Smoak and Montero need to be out there blasting balls, hitting doubles, and if its going to be an OUT there gonna have to catch it near the warning tracks. Michael Morse has been doing that for us this year I am so greatful for Jack making that move to bring him in from the nationals.

 

[wazzu31]

I have always felt that getting on base is a positive thing. Smoak has been doing that this season. He has the highest OBP of any Mariner with more than 60 PA this season. One issue is that those behind him haven't been hitting, as the next 3 batters are batting .223 combined for the season. It would be much lower if Ackley hadn't had his streak to bring his average up. I am not as concerned about his power issues. Since arriving to Seattle he hits a HR 28.65 ABs, it only takes him having an Ibanez type two nights and he's back at that pace for this season. Now, his average with RISP is abysmal, and he is gonna have to do better. There's no excuse for batting .129 for any situation, let alone when there are runs on the line.

Over the last 3 weeks, Smoak has been hitting .315 (.456 OBP) and has scored 8 runs in 16 starts. I know he isn't the best base runner (or at least he's one of the slowest guys on the team outside Montero), but if he gets on base, eventually someone is gonna hit him in, in theory. And he's been getting on base a lot, nearly twice a game the since April 22.

The problems with the M's offense are not just Smoak's lack of power. This team has no offensive identity. There isn't enough power to lean on the HR for their offense, they don't hit for average, they aren't in motion on the base paths and they don't set up runs using small ball.[/QUOTE]

Right there is a problem I preached about. They don't have a versatile team whatsoever. They have Saunders and? Ackley has that potential obviously but for the most part they have a roster built on needing doubles and homeruns.

 

[mcnabb7542]

I think its still too early to be "pulling the plug" on certain players. This team has shown signs of an idenity, alot better then the past couple of seasons, there doing something that the 2001 team taught us, winning series.

 

[Banned 10x]

I think its still too early to be "pulling the plug" on certain players. This team has shown signs of an idenity, alot better then the past couple of seasons, there doing something that the 2001 team taught us, winning series.

Montero is quickly making his way onto my 'pulling the plug' list. I'm convinced he can't play catcher at the MLB level and he is isn't hitting, I know he's young be he is really frustrating to watch.

and wipe that f'n smile off your face all the time, please look like you give a damn.

 

[seattlefan75]

i agree with all the above posters, I dont mind montero being an average to below avg catcher in the league if he was hitting like buster posey and when we traded for him he had all these scouting reports saying that he had a bat like manny ramirez/miguel cabrera if that was the case then IMO its ok to be average behind the plate, but all realms of this mans game has gone down and ever sense his name was put out after that miami steriod/PED bust his bat has been terrible

 

[Banned 10x]

i agree with all the above posters, I dont mind montero being an average to below avg catcher in the league if he was hitting like buster posey and when we traded for him he had all these scouting reports saying that he had a bat like manny ramirez/miguel cabrera if that was the case then IMO its ok to be average behind the plate, but all realms of this mans game has gone down and ever sense his name was put out after that miami steriod/PED bust his bat has been terrible

agree completely. If he is hitting 280 with 10 HR's then I could care less if he is a below average defensive catcher.

Same goes with our SS position.

 

[seattlefan75]

SO how much time are we giving dustin ackley before we send him down to AAA? with the way Nick Franklin is playing I think he should be given an opportunity to make his major league debut. Im starting to believe Jack Z job is going to be on the hot seat pretty soon, he better start sending messages to these players that we all thought would be all stars.

 

[blade]

SO how much time are we giving dustin ackley before we send him down to AAA? with the way Nick Franklin is playing I think he should be given an opportunity to make his major league debut. Im starting to believe Jack Z job is going to be on the hot seat pretty soon, he better start sending messages to these players that we all thought would be all stars.

After a brief reprieve in which Ackley got his batting average up to .255, he is once again heading back toward the Mendoza line. He is 6 or 44 (.136 batting average) in his last 14 games. He's safe until Franklin becomes ineligible for Super 2 status (mid June). After that, he's probably headed to AAA.

 

[unlvmariners]

After a brief reprieve in which Ackley got his batting average up to .255, he is once again heading back toward the Mendoza line. He is 6 or 44 (.136 batting average) in his last 14 games. He's safe until Franklin becomes ineligible for Super 2 status (mid June). After that, he's probably headed to AAA.

That is where Ackley needs to be until he proves he can hit. And if Franklin comes in and proves he can take the second base job then, see you later Ackley.

 

[wazzu31]

After a brief reprieve in which Ackley got his batting average up to .255, he is once again heading back toward the Mendoza line. He is 6 or 44 (.136 batting average) in his last 14 games. He's safe until Franklin becomes ineligible for Super 2 status (mid June). After that, he's probably headed to AAA.

Can you explain this to me. I know baseball but just as Kae use to state all these weird technicalities on CBS I do not understand them unless the team is just being cheap. Is this another rule that only matters for teams who are cheap or is there some legitimate reason like he loses an extra option or something?

 

[seahawksfan234]

There are several reasons that clubs delay the promotion of top prospects to the major league level. The reasons can include physical ability, maturity, adjustments to breaking balls, hitting left-handed pitching, baserunning, developing a secondary pitch, fastball command, smoothing out a delivery, timing or shortening a swing.

Unfortunately, there is another reason: the ability to delay a player’s arbitration eligibility and potentially save the club millions of dollars. This is what baseball people call protecting against “Super Two" status.

Last year, the Washington Nationals delayed the promotion of Stephen Strasburg until June 8, although general managers, field staff, scouts and even teammates felt he was the best pitcher on the team coming out of spring training. This year, the promotions for top prospects like Mike Moustakas of the Kansas City Royals and Anthony Rizzo of the San Diego Padres were delayed. Granted, there were also baseball reasons contributing to both the Royals' and Padres' waiting until June to purchase their contracts, but when you analyze the exact timing of their promotions, it’s also clear that "Super Two" status contributed to the delay.

Here is the definition of salary arbitration-eligible players, including the breakdown of what a "Super Two” player is (from the MLB Players Association site):

A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a "Super Two" and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.



If Moustakas and Rizzo perform as expected, when they become first-time eligible players, they will be paid in the range of $3 million to $5 million. Assuming they both have moderate success for their talent, both the Royals and Padres will save approximately $13.35 million over the period of 2011 through 2017 for delaying their call-ups just one month, from May 1 to June 10. This delay will push back their arbitration eligibility from 2014 to 2015. The savings in 2014 should be approximately $2.35 million and in years 2015-17 will be closer to $4 million. Based on normal production and past contracts, here is an estimation of the difference. Note: Service time is indicated in the following manner (years+days):

Serv. Tm------CALLED UP 6/11---ST---------CALLED UP 5/1 SALARY DIFFERENCE
2011-0+000---$414,500-----------0+000------$414,500---------$0.00
2012-0+112---$475,000-----------0+152------$475,000---------$0.00
2013-1+112---$550,000-----------1+152------$550,000---------$0.00
2014-2+112---$650,000-----------2+152*----$3,000,000-------$2,350,000
2015-3+112*--$3,000,000--------3+152*----$7,000,000-------$4,000,000
2016-4+112*--$7,000,000--------4+152*----$10,000,000------$3,000,000
2017-5+112*--$10,000,000-------5+152*----$14,000,000------$4,000,000
TOTALS--------$22,089,500--------------------$35,439,500------$13,350,000
(*denotes arbitration eligible)


The significance is not just that arbitration eligibility was pushed back from 2014 to 2015, but that the players will be eligible for arbitration a total of only three times during the club’s control years rather than the four times that a "Super Two" player will get before reaching free agency after the 2017 season.

Of course, if either Rizzo or Moustakas wins an MVP award in the next couple of years, the difference will be even more staggering, probably in the range of $20 million or $25 million.

This past offseason Giants right-hander Tim Lincecum became the highest-paid "Super Two" player in major league history when he agreed to a two-year, $23 million deal. Lincecum, with first-time salary arbitration eligible rights, had asked for $13 million and the Giants had countered with $8 million when the settlement took place. Delaying Lincecum's promotion would have resulted in significant short-term savings for the Giants. Here is the approximate difference:

YEAR-------SUPER 2 ELIGIBLE------IF NOT ELIGIBLE------DIFFERENCE
2011-------$9,000,000--------------$750,000--------------$8,250,000
2012-------$14,000,000-------------$9,000,000------------$5,000,000


In 2011 and 2012, the Giants would have saved $13.25 million. Granted, this is an extreme example because Lincecum is a two-time National League Cy Young Award winner coming off a season in which he helped the Giants win a world championship.

We all want baseball's best young players promoted to the major leagues when they are “baseball ready,” but financially, we must also understand when clubs decide to delay the promotions for business reasons.

The system doesn’t work when players with lesser talent are promoted over the better prospects, who must remain in the minor leagues for financial reasons alone. Baseball needs to alter this rule in the next collective bargaining agreement. Major League Baseball needs the game's best players, and the players deserve to be paid based on production, not on whether they were called up May 1 as opposed to June 10.

It's a bit long but it explains Super Two status.

TLDR version:
It basically delays how their arbitration eligibility, making them cheaper to retain.

 

[blade]

It's a bit long but it explains Super Two status.

TLDR version:
It basically delays how their arbitration eligibility, making them cheaper to retain.

So, we can expect Franklin around mid-June. Meanwhile, Ackley's batting average is dropping faster than it went up and he should be below the Mendoza line by Wednesday. I have seen anything in his recent at bats that suggests he may be pulling out of his slump*.

* It's probably time to stop calling it a slump and just accept the fact that Ackley can't hit at this level. Since September 7, 2011: 181 hits in 836 at bats (.217 BA).

 

[blade]

So, we can expect Franklin around mid-June. Meanwhile, Ackley's batting average is dropping faster than it went up and he should be below the Mendoza line by Wednesday. I have seen anything in his recent at bats that suggests he may be pulling out of his slump*.

* It's probably time to stop calling it a slump and just accept the fact that Ackley can't hit at this level. Since September 7, 2011: 181 hits in 836 at bats (.217 BA).

OR, maybe we can expect Franklin on May 27th: Y! SPORTS

I don't know who got sent down yet. My guess is it's either Truinfel, Ackley or Maurer. Or Ryan got DFAed.

 

[blade]

OR, maybe we can expect Franklin on May 27th: Y! SPORTS

I don't know who got sent down yet. My guess is it's either Truinfel, Ackley or Maurer. Or Ryan got DFAed.

Or maybe Smoak is going on the DL

 

[wazzu31]

Or maybe Smoak is going on the DL

Dustin Ackley

 

[seahawksfan234]

The Seahawkfan234 crystal ball strikes again...

Good to see Franklin sent up.

When Montero was sent down I said this and I'll say it again, it's good that they are holding these guys accountable. They can't just let them stink it up at the major league level.

In 4 games in AAA Montero is hitting .283 with no home runs.