Time to do away with the draft lottery?

[forty_three]

I think there's a big difference between tanking on purpose and putting in some AHL caliber guys to get a good look at them.

Personally, I've got no issue with a team that's eliminated from contention getting a head start on next year by getting a good look at some of their future players.

I guess that's separate from the draft lottery debate though.

I think the current lottery system handles this just fine. Tanking on purpose does not add any benefit, because as Columbus learned, you can be the worst and not get the top pick. And they played a LOT of AHL guys at the end of last year. That's how Calvert made the team this year. Atkinson too.

I guess I am not clear on the motivation behind this discussion. Is it to stop teams from icing AHL talent and ripping off fans? That's not for the league to police. That's for the fans to police. Tanking does not give a complete advantage, so if a team is doing it, the fans who don't like it should object with their wallets.

Sometimes AHL kids with a chip on their shoulder can do good things. Ala the Flames last game.

What was the proposed idea about the team that gets the most points after being eliminated from playoff contention gets the top pick? I liked that idea.

All that does is make teams tank sooner. You're in the hunt on deadline day and you make a run but fall short, you don't get the same chances that a team that knows they are done at the deadline. They tank bad, and when it's over start playing. That would have been great for CBJ last year because they were out early, but did play kinda well down the stretch.

But you can't really succeed with a flexible "deadline" of "once eliminated". Maybe make it most points after the trade deadline, but you'd have to allow in playoff teams, or as last year, the Cup Champs...

 

[Nasty_Magician]

All that does is make teams tank sooner. You're in the hunt on deadline day and you make a run but fall short, you don't get the same chances that a team that knows they are done at the deadline. They tank bad, and when it's over start playing. That would have been great for CBJ last year because they were out early, but did play kinda well down the stretch.

But you can't really succeed with a flexible "deadline" of "once eliminated". Maybe make it most points after the trade deadline, but you'd have to allow in playoff teams, or as last year, the Cup Champs...

I disagree. If you get 2 teams that fall out of contention at roughly the same time, rather than trying to out-tank one another you would get both teams playing their hearts out the rest of the season. You would avoid the problems associated with teams actually battling for playoff position worrying about somebody else getting a layup game against a team that decided to tank.

 

[forty_three]

I disagree. If you get 2 teams that fall out of contention at roughly the same time, rather than trying to out-tank one another you would get both teams playing their hearts out the rest of the season. You would avoid the problems associated with teams actually battling for playoff position worrying about somebody else getting a layup game against a team that decided to tank.

I get that, but what about Florida who had more points left on the table when eliminated than the Canes or Oilers did. They have more opportunity to land 1st overall than the others.

Team A is eliminated with 12 games left = 24 available points. Team B gets eliminated with 8 games left. = 16 available points. Even winning out, they don't have the same opportunity that Team A does.

You're just shifting the imbalance. So if you know your plan relies on the lottery, you tank earlier and then start playing.

 

[dash]

My main motivation for creating this thread was getting people's thoughts on whether or not they like the current draft lottery and if tweaks are required or if we should just make it totally random (i.e. every non-playoff team has an equal chance at No. 1 and there is no guarantee of where your team is selecting). As you can tell, I'm clearly in the totally random camp.

 

[RaiderZar]

So, who are all of the people involved in the "tanking" scheme? Do you think it goes all the way down to the players? Do you think the owner or the GM gives the command? Who gives the coach the directive? I think you leave the lotto just as it is. However, you don't allow any team overall 1st picks in consecutive drafts. Season tickets, concessions, team logo products & jerseys, etc. are far too valuable to be tanking.

 

[dash]

So, who are all of the people involved in the "tanking" scheme? Do you think it goes all the way down to the players? Do you think the owner or the GM gives the command? Who gives the coach the directive? I think you leave the lotto just as it is. However, you don't allow any team overall 1st picks in consecutive drafts. Season tickets, concessions, team logo products & jerseys, etc. are far too valuable to be tanking.

That's really the main motivation to make it equally and completely random, it removes the idea of tanking completely from the equation.

/I don't honestly believe teams actually tank, most of the time you can just write it off as the team is really terrible. However, let's just say the motivation for winning certain games seems to subside for certain teams a lot easier than others.

 

[juliansteed]

I think something like this either should have been done a long time ago or not at all. Too many teams have benefited from the current format in recent year that it will be tought to convince some of the other teams that have "paid their dues" to want to change now that it might be their turn to benefit somewhat. It does seem like the NHL might be trying to phase it out though. It use to be that if you finish last you got #1 pick no matter what. Then there was the draft lottery that only allowed the winner to move up 4 spots. Now the winner of the lottery moves upto #1.

I'm not sure to what extent (if any) teams might be actively tanking. But if any of them are, I don't see the potential of dropping 1 spot as much of a deterrent.

I don't think there is any way of determining draft order that will please everyone. Somebody has to pick 1st overall and someone has to pick last. But why does it have to be the same order in each round? After the 05 lockout I believe the order was reversed after each round. Why not do something like that? Or maybe even something more extreme where if you get the 1st overall pick then you pick last in every other round. Or team that picks 1st in 1st round drops to the back of round 2 and everyone moves up 1 and repeat that every round. I think there is all kinds of ways to use a bit of creativity and make it a bit more fair. Weaker teams can continue to have a better chance at drafting a franchise player but will really need to rely on their scouting to build depth through the draft. Some might think that puts the weaker teams at a disadvantage but I think with the salary cap it becomes a lot easier to fill out those depth spots through free agency.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I agree with raiderzar regarding no team should get the 1st overall pick in consecutive years.

I also think no matter whether the worst team or the 14th team wins the lottery they should get the 1st pick overall.

This crap about teams only being able to drop one spot has to end. If the ping pong balls say the top 5 picks came from outside the top 5 that's how the order should be.

 

[dash]

Nashville is starting Chris Mason tonight against Detroit - That sound you just heard was Columbus wretching.

 

[dash]

It's pretty amazing to me that Tampa Bay is this bad with a +2 goal differential (145 goals for, 143 goals against)

 

[forty_three]

Nashville is starting Chris Mason tonight against Detroit - That sound you just heard was Columbus wretching.

Splendid.

Let's hope Mason is trying to punch his ticket out of Nashville and plays out of his mind tonight.



So, to go back to the original thought, why not just make the draft a true lottery? I mean how often is first overall really head and shoulders above second overall? Enough worth tanking for?

So, simple. EVERYONE gets one ball in the draft, whoever wins gets first overall.

Then determine order by drawing the non-playoff teams on draft day (each gets one ball), at least for first round. Later rounds are record alone. So twitchy stands up there after first pick and announces who is next.

 

[dash]

So, simple. EVERYONE gets one ball in the draft, whoever wins gets first overall.

By EVERYONE, you mean all non-playoff teams? If so, I agree with this.

 

[forty_three]

By EVERYONE, you mean all non-playoff teams? If so, I agree with this.

Yes, every team gets equal shot at first overall regardless of finish. Then 2-whatever are chosen randomly from non playoff teams.


Could have long reaching benefits. Who wants to play their ass off in Junior if it means that Edmonton will probably get them?

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Splendid.

Let's hope Mason is trying to punch his ticket out of Nashville and plays out of his mind tonight.



So, to go back to the original thought, why not just make the draft a true lottery? I mean how often is first overall really head and shoulders above second overall? Enough worth tanking for?

So, simple. EVERYONE gets one ball in the draft, whoever wins gets first overall.

Then determine order by drawing the non-playoff teams on draft day (each gets one ball), at least for first round. Later rounds are record alone. So twitchy stands up there after first pick and announces who is next.

2008 Steven Stamkos
2009 John Tavares


Those two guys standout above all the rest in their draft class.

The past three drafts there doesn't seem to be a huge difference.

In 2013 it depends on what you want. Everyone says Jones is the man. If you want a Center MacKinnon is your man. If you want a highly skilled winger Drouin is your man.

 

[forty_three]

Could also spur trading on draft day if a team in cap trouble lands #1 overall. Someone who opened the checkbook to make a run. They might deal the pick to stabilize the roster or feel a big name is expendable because of the talent inbound.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Could also spur trading on draft day if a team in cap trouble lands #1 overall. Someone who opened the checkbook to make a run. They might deal the pick to stabilize the roster or feel a big name is expendable because of the talent inbound.

Team with cap space in need of a goalie says I'll take your 1st round pick & Luongo if you keep 1/4 his contract & give you a my 3rd round pick:?