Thoughts on the Michigan sign stealing allegations?

[elguapo]

If there was no advantage, then why go to 8 Ohio State games to record their sidelines?
Why have a budget and buy tickets to over 30 games?
Why is a "junior analyst" (Michigan's words in their response to the B1G) who did all of this "on his own" joined at the hip with the DC and the OC on the sidelines?
Why is said analyst looking at the signal callers and not the alignment on the field?

If you don't think the defense knowing that a play is a pass or a run isn't a huge advantage, go root for the soccer team.

i said, if they knew it was happening, and thus changed signs, what advantage

 

[cwerph]

i said, if they knew it was happening, and thus changed signs, what advantage

Analyst watches not the players on the field, but the signal callers on the sideline.

Michigan called a double safety run blitz against CJ Stroud, Chris Olave and Garrett Wilson at the 10 yard line. There is no way that is called if the DC didn't know it was a run, which was against tendencies and contrary to formation.

Signal systems take all spring and fall camp to install. It isn't like changing the batteries in the smoke detector. They changed some of the signs, but didn't have time to change them all. Teams only have 20 hours a week to prepare for the next opponent. There is no way they changed all of the signs.

No advantage my ass.

 

[HuskerOC]

Cheatagain.

Fuck 'em both. My team can't be worse in an 18 team league.

 

[DetroitDevil]

 

[DetroitDevil]

Who knew Ohios taint was hypocrites? Always accusing others of what they are doing.

 

[fritowrdo]

Yes, Michigan fans. It is finally sinking in you are caught cheating.

 

[fritowrdo]

View attachment 345681

The person committing the crime saying they didn't commit a crime.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

supposed to be a ruling on the whole thing today.

 

[cwerph]

supposed to be a ruling on the whole thing today.

If it is today, it will be a 2 game suspension. In order for it to be more, Pettiti would have to meet with some official Big 10 group (not going to bother looking it up).

 

[Wolvie]

If there was no advantage, then why go to 8 Ohio State games to record their sidelines?
Why have a budget and buy tickets to over 30 games?
Why is a "junior analyst" (Michigan's words in their response to the B1G) who did all of this "on his own" joined at the hip with the DC and the OC on the sidelines?
Why is said analyst looking at the signal callers and not the alignment on the field?

If you don't think the defense knowing that a play is a pass or a run isn't a huge advantage, go root for the soccer team.

I think you answered your own question. Stalions was a wannabe. He wanted desperately to be an asset to the team and be one of the cool kids. So much so that he bought tickets to games so he could out-steal signs that the other "analysts" couldn't. When you ask "why do this if there is no advantage" it is simply because this guy wanted to on the sidelines as a coach and this was his ticket.

 

[cwerph]

I think you answered your own question. Stalions was a wannabe. He wanted desperately to be an asset to the team and be one of the cool kids. So much so that he bought tickets to games so he could out-steal signs that the other "analysts" couldn't. When you ask "why do this if there is no advantage" it is simply because this guy wanted to on the sidelines as a coach and this was his ticket.

I get wanting to be on the sidelines but he was not just "there" - he was informing the OC and DC about the calls. It's all there on video tape for everyone to see.

 

[Wolvie]

I get wanting to be on the sidelines but he was not just "there" - he was informing the OC and DC about the calls. It's all there on video tape for everyone to see.

For sure. That was his job. The NCAA has created this culture by allowing (and therefore essentially forcing) teams to steal signs and it's to their detriment if they choose not to do so. Every team has "analysts" that are at games for the sole purpose of stealing signs. NCAA is all for this and there was nothing wrong with stalions giving signs to the DC. What is wrong is that he was getting advanced scouting so that he would be the analyst on the sidelines rather than someone else.

This is an artificial culture created by the current ruleset. I would be absolutely shocked if this scenario wasn't playing itself out at plenty of other schools. College football is cutthroat and I bet there are tons of "analysts" looking for any advantage to further their careers.

 

[cwerph]

For sure. That was his job. The NCAA has created this culture by allowing (and therefore essentially forcing) teams to steal signs and it's to their detriment if they choose not to do so. Every team has "analysts" that are at games for the sole purpose of stealing signs. NCAA is all for this and there was nothing wrong with stalions giving signs to the DC. What is wrong is that he was getting advanced scouting so that he would be the analyst on the sidelines rather than someone else.

This is an artificial culture created by the current ruleset. I would be absolutely shocked if this scenario wasn't playing itself out at plenty of other schools. College football is cutthroat and I bet there are tons of "analysts" looking for any advantage to further their careers.

"The Devil Made Me Do It" defense. Excellent.

 

[Wolvie]

"The Devil Made Me Do It" defense. Excellent.

Again, that is all legal and perfectly acceptable (and even encouraged) tactics.

 

[cwerph]

Again, that is all legal and perfectly acceptable (and even encouraged) tactics.

You know that stealing signs is not the issue.

 

[Wolvie]

You know that stealing signs is not the issue.

It absolutely is the entire basis of this scandal.

 

[cwerph]

It absolutely is the entire basis of this scandal.

No one claims that stealing signs is against the rules.

The basis of the scandal is:
1) In-person scouting of opponents that are scheduled the same year; and
2) Electronic recording of the opponents' sidelines during said in-person scouting.

There are other allegations which have not been confirmed (like somehow obtaining the OSU video coordinator's id and password, logging into the OSU server and stealing practice videos). We will have to wait on that one. If it happened, it's not just a rules violation and violation of the Sportsmanship policy. It is a federal crime.

 

[Wolvie]

No one claims that stealing signs is against the rules.

The basis of the scandal is:
1) In-person scouting of opponents that are scheduled the same year; and
2) Electronic recording of the opponents' sidelines during said in-person scouting.

There are other allegations which have not been confirmed (like somehow obtaining the OSU video coordinator's id and password, logging into the OSU server and stealing practice videos). We will have to wait on that one. If it happened, it's not just a rules violation and violation of the Sportsmanship policy. It is a federal crime.

Yes I realize this, but it wouldn't even be an issue if the NCAA banned all sign stealing or created another way of allowing coaches to get the plays to their teams on the field. What Stalions did in getting people to record plays was 100% against the rules. Had he simply buddied up with that game's opponent's coaching staff and had them get signs for you during their game then it would have been actually legal. This is exactly what happened for Purdue before it faced Michigan in the B1G championship. Other teams gave it Michigan's signs. That stuff happens all the time, evidently.

 

[cwerph]

Yes I realize this, but it wouldn't even be an issue if the NCAA banned all sign stealing or created another way of allowing coaches to get the plays to their teams on the field. What Stalions did in getting people to record plays was 100% against the rules. Had he simply buddied up with that game's opponent's coaching staff and had them get signs for you during their game then it would have been actually legal. This is exactly what happened for Purdue before it faced Michigan in the B1G championship. Other teams gave it Michigan's signs. That stuff happens all the time, evidently.

"We wouldn't have broken the rules if you allowed 'X'" is not a defense. It's an excuse.

 

[Wolvie]

"We wouldn't have broken the rules if you allowed 'X'" is not a defense. It's an excuse.

Getting signs for a future opponent from another school that wants you to beat the opponent is 100% acceptable behavior under the current ruleset. Getting those signs yourself during a game is 100% acceptable behavior under the current ruleset. Having someone else get you signs of your future opponents is a "sky is falling" unacceptable scandal the likes of which college sports has never seen before. This is what Stalions was up against. And keep in mind that there is zero evidence linking anyone but Stalions to this rule violation. He got caught on the margins of what is an acceptable way to steal and what isn't. He should absolutely be punished, but lets not lose the forest for the trees. This shit is pervasive in college football.