Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[TrustMeIamRight]

Pettigrew is trash and fauria is a good #2

Pettigrew is the best TE on our team right now. Fauria is a pass catching TE, Ebron is a pass catching TE -- Pettigrew is a complete TE.

I hate we spent a 1st rounder on Pettigrew as well and hated the pick when we made it. His 2nd and 3rd year -- he was Stafford's safety net. He is also the best blocking TE on the roster and it isn't even remotely close. While I'm not a fan of Pettigrew's because of the drops and fumbles he has had -- he brings value to the Lions as a blocker and safety net in the passing game.

If you call Pettigrew trash -- who else on the Lions do you consider trash, as the list must be long.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I do understand what you are saying on most everything. What I can't agree on is the lack of depth at many positions. The Lions know their roster better than anyone, I would hope. We've been very lucky the last couple years with the exception of the WR position, as we've been healthy.

The one position where we were solid, after finding an undrafted FA that scores 7 touchdowns as a rookie to pair with a solid two way TE, who excels at blocking is TE.

I realize he is our pick and nothing can be changed now. I actually think Ebron could be a quality TE, but on a team in 'win now mode' -- I don't get spending a top 10 pick on someone who will be a #3 or #4 option during the duration of his rookie contract. I don't think Ebron will ever live up to his potential on the Lions, as he won't get the targets he would elsewhere.

Have to cut this short as the little guy is waking up. I will leave it at this. You state the team is void of talent and depth up until 2012. Why spend a pick on a TE when you have Pettigrew and Fauria then? It is one of the positions where you actually have depth.

While I still agree that a defensive player would have been the better pick, I think this bolded part is the center of where your beef lies. You simply don't draft to fill holes in the 1st round, unless you want to just fill a hole at the expense of a more talented player elsewhere. Teams don't do that- they take the talent because that's where they have the best chance to land an elite player.

In our case we could have drafted some good looking defenders, but the Lions personnel department must have had Ebron rated that much higher than Donald, Fuller, Shazier, etc... Clinton Dix and Denard clearly weren't even in the mix based on where they were drafted. I think the media over-sold us on them- neither cracked the top 20.

Basically I think that's where your disagreement is- that they were drafting by talent, not by position. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, though, that's just my observation.

Given everything that has happened with the CBs so far, Fuller would seem to be the better pick at this very moment, but what if in two or three seasons Fuller is a bust and Ebron is tearing it up? Gotta look at the long term. That being said it could be Fuller who is tearing it up in a few years and Ebron who sucks, that's why the draft is such a crap-shoot. Overall, though, it's far too early to judge this year's draft. We have to see how these kids develop before passing judgment.

On the surface it's easier to say "we need a CB bad, so CB should have obviously been the pick." What if that CB turns out to be a bust, though, and the guy you would have taken, that was rated higher on your board but you passed on to reach for a need position, is playing at a high level? If that's the case then you made a big mistake with the pick because you were trying to fill a hole instead of staying true to your scouting. I think that's a big part of the reason teams stick to their boards so much.


Big Blue made a very good point when he posted all of our 1st round picks since 2009 and the next CB to come off the board after them, and then asked who we should have taken instead of who we did take. There were a couple of decent guys, but really no obvious slam dunks, imo at least. Wile it's easy to lament Mayhew not spending a 1st rounder on a CB during his tenure, a closer look at where we picked and who was available takes off a lot of the heat for that one...

 

[lionstop1]

Ebron> Dennard
Ebron > Donald
Ebron > Clinton Dix

So, do some you think these players I listed would be starting over the current players on the roster? I highly doubt it. None of these guys were even rated as high as Ebron so I think that kills the argument that one of them shouldve been the pick. Donald would definitely be playing but not starting. Dennard wouldn't start over Mathis and no need to spend a high pick on a nickleback, right? Dix doesnt even start on the Packers defense, so.


I also find it quite ammuzing how suddenly some you think the offense has become this ultimate force just because Tate catches everything and Fauria has a emerged a little. Suddenly, the Lions offense doesnt need another peice and Ebron is a luxury pick or the 4th option on the team. The truth is, Ebron has the most upside over all the players on the offense currently. Of course he cant be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th option when considering the other veterans on the offense but I can garauntee he is the #1 option on plays that are drawn up for him. None of the WRs outside of CJ can match his overall athleticism and measurables. Nor can the TEs. He's easily an "option" for Stafford.

He needs time to develop like any other rookie and to think otherwise is rediculous. Its cool not to like the pick but adding a bunch of nonsense to it is crazy.

 

[gvsulaker82]

The Lions have so many options it will be easy to overlook Ebron.

Fauria has made an effort to improve his blocking and he catches the damn ball. If Ebron has more drops Fauria will steal a good amount of Ebron's playing time.

I see the O-Coordinator calling specific plays for him but if he ends up with more than 36 catches this season I will be surprised. Fauria will have the most receptions of Detroit's TE IMO.

I disagree, fauria will be third on team with receptions among tigh ends.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Pettigrew is the best TE on our team right now. Fauria is a pass catching TE, Ebron is a pass catching TE -- Pettigrew is a complete TE.

I hate we spent a 1st rounder on Pettigrew as well and hated the pick when we made it. His 2nd and 3rd year -- he was Stafford's safety net. He is also the best blocking TE on the roster and it isn't even remotely close. While I'm not a fan of Pettigrew's because of the drops and fumbles he has had -- he brings value to the Lions as a blocker and safety net in the passing game.

If you call Pettigrew trash -- who else on the Lions do you consider trash, as the list must be long.

I'd say Megatron is the best TE on our team. But I'll agree that Pettigrew is the best TE on our team who actually plays TE. I think Megatron is probably the best DB on our team, too...

 

[RobBase]

Donald would definitely be playing but not starting. Dennard wouldn't start over Mathis and no need to spend a high pick on a nickleback, right? Dix doesnt even start on the Packers defense, so.

He needs time to develop like any other rookie and to think otherwise is rediculous. Its cool not to like the pick but adding a bunch of nonsense to it is crazy.

Hypocrisy.

 

[RobBase]

Here's the blunt truth. Some of you need to learn how to deal with adversity, negativity, and criticism. You defend everything this team does, yet they are the worst team in the NFL over the past 5 years. Were you raised by protective mothers?

Don't tell people how to like or not like the pick. That's big time insecurity.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

He has the time to step up. I think he scores a TD this week and everyone will be gushin' over him.

I think he will be fine. I think he maybe end up with a game or two where he does really well this year. I just don't think he will ever come close to living up to what we spent to get him, as he won't be an every down TE and as long as Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate are on the team -- he won't be one of the first options in the offense.

Elite TE's like Graham and Gronkowski are at the top of their positions because they are option #1 on their offenses and get 130-150 passes thrown their way like #1 WR do. The reason they get that many is -- they don't have elite #1 WRs to battle with for opportunities.

Detroit has the best WR in the NFL and signed the #1 WR from the Seahawks in the offense to be their #2 and he catches everything thrown his way. They also have a TE who has had 80 and 70 catch seasons to go with an undrafted rookie that had 7 tds last year.

Only so many balls to go around, IMO and top 10 picks don't come around very often, so using on the TE position seems strange to me. And to those who want to say he is a 3rd WR and not a TE, I have two words for you -- Matt Millen.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Here's the blunt truth. Some of you need to learn how to deal with adversity, negativity, and criticism. You defend everything this team does, yet they are the worst team in the NFL over the past 5 years. Were you raised by protective mothers?

Don't tell people how to like or not like the pick. That's big time insecurity.

Yeah, the pick was just awful at ten. Unless hes Jimmy Graham, it was a bad pick, and that shouldnt sit well for any lions fan. Mayhew is gambling the lions future on ebron being as good as jimmy graham. Any less of a player and hes not worth that pick. I dont mind the guy and he could very well have a good career, but he was not worth the tenth pick in the draft and therein lies the problem.

 

[lionstop1]

Hypocrisy? Where?

I don't mind negativity but as least give legitimate reasons why a player is good or bad or the right decision by stating facts and not just some off-the-wall made up shit that seems to support your opinion. All this is being said after one game, which I find a little overboard.

 

[lionstop1]

Rob Base,

And who the hell is insecure and where did you get that from?

 

[LPinSLC]

Yeah, the pick was just awful at ten. Unless hes Jimmy Graham, it was a bad pick, and that shouldnt sit well for any lions fan. Mayhew is gambling the lions future on ebron being as good as jimmy graham. Any less of a player and hes not worth that pick. I dont mind the guy and he could very well have a good career, but he was not worth the tenth pick in the draft and therein lies the problem.

The thing is, we wouldn't need Jimmy Graham either.

 

[lionstop1]

Lol. See, its funny when people say Mayhew is putting the entire future of the team on the Ebron pick as if a different player would automatically take the team to the promise land. Ahahahahaha.

 

[Microwahevo]

Here's the blunt truth. Some of you need to learn how to deal with adversity, negativity, and criticism. You defend everything this team does, yet they are the worst team in the NFL over the past 5 years. Were you raised by protective mothers?

Don't tell people how to like or not like the pick. That's big time insecurity.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Lol. See, its funny when people say Mayhew is putting the entire future of the team on the Ebron pick as if a different player would automatically take the team to the promise land. Ahahahahaha.

The lions would definitely have a much better shot at making a run this year in the offs and in the next few years if they had drafted a defender or a tackle. Ahahahahahaha.

 

[gvsulaker82]

The thing is, we wouldn't need Jimmy Graham either.

Agreed. But hell the lions draft BPA, so maybe next year they will snag another tight end.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ebron> Dennard
Ebron > Donald
Ebron > Clinton Dix

So, do some you think these players I listed would be starting over the current players on the roster? I highly doubt it. None of these guys were even rated as high as Ebron so I think that kills the argument that one of them shouldve been the pick. Donald would definitely be playing but not starting. Dennard wouldn't start over Mathis and no need to spend a high pick on a nickleback, right? Dix doesnt even start on the Packers defense, so.


I also find it quite ammuzing how suddenly some you think the offense has become this ultimate force just because Tate catches everything and Fauria has a emerged a little. Suddenly, the Lions offense doesnt need another peice and Ebron is a luxury pick or the 4th option on the team. The truth is, Ebron has the most upside over all the players on the offense currently. Of course he cant be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th option when considering the other veterans on the offense but I can garauntee he is the #1 option on plays that are drawn up for him. None of the WRs outside of CJ can match his overall athleticism and measurables. Nor can the TEs. He's easily an "option" for Stafford.

He needs time to develop like any other rookie and to think otherwise is rediculous. Its cool not to like the pick but adding a bunch of nonsense to it is crazy.

Do I think Dennard, Donald and Dix would be starting over the players on the Lions roster? Yes, Yes and Yes. CB is the weakest position on our team -- our 4th round pick is going to be a starter the rest of the year for us. Nick Fairley was on the 2nd string until the last week, getting out played by CJ Moseley, so yes, I think Donald could have absolutely started for us. Quudus (sp) was our starting safety in the 1st game of the year, who we picked up off waivers. We have no idea what Ihedbigo is going to bring, as he has been a full time starter for one full season in 8 years in the NFL.

That was a silly question. To add to it -- not only do I think they could have started for the Lions -- it would have solved long term needs for the team, as Ihedigo is 31 or 32, both of DT's are FA after this year and we have a starting CB that is 34 years old.

Lionstop -- what Detroit's offense has been missing since Stafford was the QB is a complement to Calvin Johnson. If Golden Tate plays like he did the 1st game and catches everything in site -- who do you think Stafford is going to be looking for on important downs if Calvin isn't open?

I will say AGAIN. It isn't that I don't think Ebron can't be a great player in the NFL. I think he will be very limited in his opportunities on the Lions, not only this year, but going forward.

Lastly -- there is a HUGE difference between being the #1 option in the passing offense and the #1 option on an individual play. Calvin Johnson will be targeted 150 times a year as the #1 option in the Lions offense, just like Jimmy Graham is targeted roughly the same amount in New Orleans. The #2 option will receive slightly less than that, which is where Golden Tate will be, in the 100-120 range. When you include passes to RB's and the other TE's -- Ebron is left with the rest.

There are only so many balls to go around. That is why I asked the question about what would be a successful year for him in Detroit, as he could easily have many games just like the first where he gets 3 passes thrown to him the whole game.



None of these guys were rated higher where?

 

[lionstop1]

Really? How do you know that gvs? A guess? Ahahahahaha

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Unless hes Jimmy Graham, it was a bad pick, and that shouldnt sit well for any lions fan.

I agree 100% with this. Outside of Graham or Gronkowski -- I would give up a top 10 pick for any TE, as you can find value much easier in later rounds.

 

[lionstop1]

Fairley was in the doghouse because of his weight. I dont think the Lions would've started Donald over him. You may be right though if the Lions would've took any of them at ten.