Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[tpaulus_2]

Dennard was inactive last Sunday due to an injury. What a fuckin bum. Bust!!! Looks like Glass Joe all over again.

What!? He was supposed to be the greatest thing since pussy! I can't believe he didn't have 16 INTs, 8 TDs and 97 tackles in his first game. Guess he'll just have to double-down this weekend (if he's even good enough to be activated, that is).

 

[tpaulus_2]

Some people just wanna trash the Lions and their players any chance they get, so they let facts get in the way of their opinion. And they can't even admit they were wrong, they just keep making asinine posts.

Yerp. That's why I just kept posting that same thing over and over. Irrefutable proof that Ebron did not, in fact, drop a pass. Yes, he couldn't haul in that long TD pass, but a ball 30 yards downfield that a receiver has to completely flip around to the opposite shoulder to catch doesn't constitute a drop.

I think the basic rule of thumb is that if the receiver has to make a great catch in order to secure the pass, then it's not a drop. Catchable passes, man... catchable passes.


It just cracks me up that after an awesome win on national TV there's still a handful here who only want to focus on the negatives. Must really suck to be wired that way, 'cause you know that attitude carries over into other aspects of their lives. Then again I don't earn a $350,000 bonus every year, so what the fuck would I know about anything in the world, right?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Scratch that- I stand corrected. Graham's best was a 4.48...

Jimmy Graham ran a 4.53 at the combine at 6'7" with a 38 1/2 inch vertical.

Eric Ebron ran a 4.60 at the combine at 6'4" with a 32 inch vertical.

If you want the actual numbers from the players -- look up NFL combine numbers as they are electronically timed. The "personal best" times you see on NFLDraftScout are from pro days and are hand held 40 times. Big difference.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Id laugh my ass off if DoubleE's a healthy scratch on Sunday. View attachment 12172

Lol, fit would hit the shan.

We already had one poster yesterday proclaim that Ebron was the worst first round pick ever. After one game none the less. Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, etc. be damned.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Looks like it's a lot closer than you think on this one-

Vincent Jackson, 6'5" 241 lbs:
40 yard dash- 4.46
20 yard dash- 2.63
10 yard dash- 1.67
225 Reps- 23
Vertical Jump- 39"
Broad Jump- 10'9"
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.00
3 Cone Drill- NA

Eric Ebron 6'4" 250 lbs:
40 yard dash- 4.50
20 yard dash- 2.63
10 yard dash- 1.61
225 Reps- 24
Vertical Jump- 32"
Broad Jump- 10'00"
20 Yard Shuttle- 4.45
3 Cone Drill- 7.49


I'd say he might have been being more serious than you gave him credit for. I'd also speculate that Ebron is more athletic than you might think, based on your disbelief that the comparison he made couldn't be serious. Jackson has a better vertical, but everything else is pretty close, especially considering that one is a TE and the other a WR.

If Ebron had actually run a 4.50 at the combine -- I'd agree with you. He didn't though. He ran a 4.6. Only one TE ran a 4.5 and he was from Tennessee State or something like that, this past year.

So outside of being only slightly shorter than V.Jackson -- the numbers are not very close -- (4.46 to 4.60 and 39 inch vert to 32 inch vert)

That isn't even taking into consideration each players ability to catch passes either.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Jimmy Graham ran a 4.53 at the combine at 6'7" with a 38 1/2 inch vertical.

Eric Ebron ran a 4.60 at the combine at 6'4" with a 32 inch vertical.

If you want the actual numbers from the players -- look up NFL combine numbers as they are electronically timed. The "personal best" times you see on NFLDraftScout are from pro days and are hand held 40 times. Big difference.

Most pro-day times are electronic now-a-days. Very few D1 schools don't have elcetronic systems. The combine numbers are usually actually artificially low, as, for some mysterious reason, they're all adjusted down after the guys run. You can watch the guys run at the combine, see their time on the board connected to the electronic system, but yet when it's posted officially, it's always lower. Apparently they don't have an accurate system at the highest level, or they grade on a curve, or some such BS.


The point remains, though, that I was wrong- Graham did post better 40 times. Which means he's faster, but not necessarily more athletic. Granted we're talking about two of the elite athletes in the world, so arguing over who is more athletic is at least a bit futile.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Irrefutable proof that Ebron did not, in fact, drop a pass. Yes, he couldn't haul in that long TD pass, but a ball 30 yards downfield that a receiver has to completely flip around to the opposite shoulder to catch doesn't constitute a drop.

You don't need to post any proof. Just post the league leaders by team in dropped passes this year. Detroit has ZERO. so it'd be hard for Ebron to actually drop a pass when the team had zero in their first game.

 

[broncosmitty]

Lol, fit would hit the shan.

We already had one poster yesterday proclaim that Ebron was the worst first round pick ever. After one game none the less. Mike Williams, Charles Rogers, etc. be damned.

Andre Ware was a platinum diamond club luxurious luxury pick

 

[Rollingthndr]

Let's forget about EE for a minute and talk about how awesome Golden Tate is. Perfect player for Matthew Stafford to throw to. Exactly what the offense needed. As for my two cents on EE, he COULD be good but I'm not sold on him yet. I will give the kid some more time to develop and see if he turns into Jimmy Graham or Jared Cook. As for now, I wish they would of went with Dennard or Calvin Pryor. If the guy turns into Jimmy Graham then I will change my tune.

 

[RobBase]

Some people just wanna trash the Lions and their players any chance they get, so they let facts get in the way of their opinion. And they can't even admit they were wrong, they just keep making asinine posts.

Not me. Dropped, failed to catch the ball, whatever. Splitting hairs. Doesn't matter.

 

[Rollingthndr]

Andre Ware was a platinum diamond club luxurious luxury pick

You forgot the words, gold, fur and mega yacht.

 

[broncosmitty]

Not me. Dropped, failed to catch the ball, whatever. Splitting hairs. Doesn't matter.

Are you guys tallinbough that bullshit pass when Stafford thought Ebron was CJ?

 

[tpaulus_2]

If Ebron had actually run a 4.50 at the combine -- I'd agree with you. He didn't though. He ran a 4.6. Only one TE ran a 4.5 and he was from Tennessee State or something like that, this past year.

So outside of being only slightly shorter than V.Jackson -- the numbers are not very close -- (4.46 to 4.60 and 39 inch vert to 32 inch vert)

That isn't even taking into consideration each players ability to catch passes either.

You put a lot of emphasis on vertical. There's a lot of other considerations as to what constitutes athleticism than just how high a guy can jump while standing still. Generally speaking, watching tape, seeing how a guy moves and performs within the framework of his given sport is a great way to assess that, and that's where Ebron got rave reviews. Turns out you can't tell everything you need to know about a player from his combine numbers. These guys play football in pads, not run a decathlon in underwear.

Also, I find it very telling that you're so quick to dismiss Ebron's best recorded 40 time simply because he didn't run it at the combine. I'm more than willing to recognize Graham's best 40 time (still better than Ebron's best) even though it was from his pro day. What this all points to is that you didn't like the pick so much that you're going to see what you want to see out of the kid from here out, and what you want to see is for him to fail, so you're going to be fishing for every little thing you can to discredit him (which you've basically been doing since the draft).

I really, really didn't like the pick, either. I thought we needed Aaron Donald or a CB. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to go on a witch hunt simply because things didn't unfold exactly how I wanted the, to...

 

[RobBase]

You don't need to post any proof. Just post the league leaders by team in dropped passes this year. Detroit has ZERO. so it'd be hard for Ebron to actually drop a pass when the team had zero in their first game.

I don't care what nerds say, Ebron said it himself. Next time he plans to haul those balls in. Blamed himself.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Basically, in a nutshell, Ebron was the pick, and no amount of complaining about that from the fans will change the pick to someone else, nor will it get Mayhew fired, so I don't see the point to bitching about the pick still. It wasn't the best pick we could have made, in most of our opinions (so it seems, definitely wasn't the best pick in my person opinion), but he's who we got, and, imo, it's better to have him than to not have him. Would I rather have had someone else? Hell yes! But we don't have someone else, and there isn't a fawkin' thing I can do about it, so all that's left to do is support Ebron unless and until he proves that he doesn't deserve my support, and that's not something that he can prove or disprove in his rookie season, let alone after just a single game...

 

[tpaulus_2]

That isn't even taking into consideration each players ability to catch passes either.

When and if Ebron struggles with drops in the NFL, this will be a valid point. Until then it's all just speculation.

 

[tpaulus_2]

You don't need to post any proof. Just post the league leaders by team in dropped passes this year. Detroit has ZERO. so it'd be hard for Ebron to actually drop a pass when the team had zero in their first game.

Exactly man. I'm nervous as fuck about his reputation for dropping passes, but it hasn't happened yet, which is all I was getting at.

It's a fact that it hasn't happened yet, because, just like you're saying here, our whole team didn't have a single dropped pass in our only game so far.

Unfortunately, some people are so thick-headed that they think the official statistics, compiled by paid professionals, are wrong, and their personal opinion is right. What can you do though?


In all reality I'm in agreement with you that Ebron probably is going to have some issues with drops this year, particularly early on. That isn't something that will just suddenly disappear, but it is something that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can improve on with practice and coaching. He plays football for a living now, and that's a known issue of his, so he's obviously going to put in a ton of work to get better at it.

Would I have liked to see him haul in that tough catch for a TD on Monday night? Absofuckinglutely. However, just because he didn't doesn't mean it was a drop. Maybe some people just don't have as good of a grasp on the complexities of the game as you do? Clearly you understand what is and isn't a drop, based on this post... hopefully that knowledge and understanding is contagious.

 

[tpaulus_2]

You put a lot of emphasis on vertical. There's a lot of other considerations as to what constitutes athleticism than just how high a guy can jump while standing still. Generally speaking, watching tape, seeing how a guy moves and performs within the framework of his given sport is a great way to assess that, and that's where Ebron got rave reviews. Turns out you can't tell everything you need to know about a player from his combine numbers. These guys play football in pads, not run a decathlon in underwear.

Also, I find it very telling that you're so quick to dismiss Ebron's best recorded 40 time simply because he didn't run it at the combine. I'm more than willing to recognize Graham's best 40 time (still better than Ebron's best) even though it was from his pro day. What this all points to is that you didn't like the pick so much that you're going to see what you want to see out of the kid from here out, and what you want to see is for him to fail, so you're going to be fishing for every little thing you can to discredit him (which you've basically been doing since the draft).

I really, really didn't like the pick, either. I thought we needed Aaron Donald or a CB. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to go on a witch hunt simply because things didn't unfold exactly how I wanted the, to...

This reads much harsher than it sounded in my head as I was typing it. That's my bad. I was just trying to argue my point here; wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I just think you're being overly critical of the kid based on your extreme dislike of the pick. Guess I could have just said it like that in the first place...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Are you guys tallinbough that bullshit pass when Stafford thought Ebron was CJ?

Yep, and that's a pass I expect that fugger to start catching based on his top-ten draft status. It would have been a great catch to be sure, but I expect someone of his talent to make great catches like that...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Just think of Ebron as our TB Bucs WR Vincent Jackson...... game, set, match. They're similar in physical stature and speed. It's worked for Jackson, now give Ebron 4-6 games, then poof, it'll be just like majic....

This is a joke, right? Hard to tell if you are serious. If you are serious, I will respond afterward.

Bold was sarcasm.

Damn Guys this whole board blew up because of me. My sincerest apologies to all for even mentioning Ebron and any other receiver's name in the same sentence.

Trustme, you have every right to come after me. My memory was TOTALLY WRONG regarding speed and yes a little with physical stature. Again, I apologize.

What I should have done FIRST was fact check. I didn't do that. I failed.

I find both to be athletic, very good size with speed, V-Jax' hands are obviously better (I haven't fact checked that yet) but what I should have elaborated on is the following; V-Jax had a rough go of it the 1st two years and therefore his production lacked as to what was anticipated from him by GM AJ Smith. I do remember that. What I also remember was a statement/analysis regarding V-Jax' questionable blocking skills for being such a big guy. I did not state any of this in above post. I failed. I do not think Ebron is a true #1 WR but in my mind he is more WR than a typical TE (in-line TE).

you can see his stats here Vincent Jackson: Career Stats at NFL.com
you can see some of his combine #'s here Vincent Jackson - WR - Northern Colorado - 2005 NFL Combine Results
you can see an analysis from CBS here Vincent Jackson, Northern Colorado, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com
here's an analysis in the CBS; Despite his size, he does not show aggression as a blocker and did not see him spend much time mirroring, shading and controlling defenders on contact

does that seem familiar at al when analyzing Ebron.

ONCE AGAIN, My apologies to all.

Trustme, find the nearest sledge-hammer and railroad spikes, HAMMER AWAY AT ME...