Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[tpaulus_2]

Let's forget about EE for a minute and talk about how awesome Golden Tate is. Perfect player for Matthew Stafford to throw to. Exactly what the offense needed. As for my two cents on EE, he COULD be good but I'm not sold on him yet. I will give the kid some more time to develop and see if he turns into Jimmy Graham or Jared Cook. As for now, I wish they would of went with Dennard or Calvin Pryor. If the guy turns into Jimmy Graham then I will change my tune.

Minus the Pryor part, at least. Louis Delmas part two, imo. With the way the rules are set up now, I don't see much value in targeting a big hitter like that. Rex Ryan put out the quote that they drafted "the guy who will take your head off" instead of Clinton-Dix. That's great Rex, except the first time he tries that he'll get a 15 yard penalty and a hefty fine from the league office. The second time he tries it he'll be sitting out the next two games via suspension.

Right or wrong, today's NFL doesn't allow much value out of big hitters, particularly in the secondary. With that new "defenseless player" bullshit rule a guy like Pryor is more likely to hurt his team with penalties than to help them, imo. Given his reputation for being a big hitter he'll start the year under the microscope as well. I don't think he's going to ever come close to living up to his draft status because his strength in college simply cannot translate to the NFL level with the new rules in place. Same thing with Dennard- he was very, very grabby in college and initiated a ton of contact downfield- that just won't fly in the NFL and he's going to have to learn to be a totally different kind of cornerback now.

I'd look for coverage ability and tackling form/willingness way before I'd look for big hits from a DB in today's NFL.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Oh fuck man, some people here (ok, one guy, at least) are fucking goddamn cartoon characters.

"I don't care what nerds say..."

Who the fuck still uses the term "nerd" in a derogatory context in everyday speak? Most of us have grown up and matured since we were 16- we realize that being a meatheaded bully probably won't get us far in life. Others? Ehh, not so much, apparently.

I think that kind of statement says a whole lot right there...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

one of the things that bothered me most regarding Peshek's WR/TE metrics, it was one damn year. All the player's last year before draft. Maybe Ebron was better in 2012 just like Marquis Lee was better in 2011 and 2012 than 2013, due to injuries and some sub-par qb play by the Trojans.


I would like to see a minimum of 2 if not 3 years for these WR's/TE's to show if there is progression or regression.


I'm all too familiar with Ebron's 11.43% drop rate as I posted the Peshek Metrics (I think Max also posted a Peshek Metrics as an opening thread.


Once again, my apologies to the ENTIRE BOARD

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'm betting that the vast majority of those "nerds" he used to beat up and push around for the fun of it are probably doing pretty fucking well for themselves as adults. While being smart and paying attention in high school may not have been cool back then, it sure pays off as an adult (wish I was more of a "nerd" in school, and in college). Conversely, being a bully may have made people cool in certain crowds in high school, but once high school is over that kind of attitude is just a giant anchor that drags those types down, down, down in the real world...

There's my op-ed piece for the evening.

 

[broncosmitty]

Yep, and that's a pass I expect that fugger to start catching based on his top-ten draft status. It would have been a great catch to be sure, but I expect someone of his talent to make great catches like that...

Okay, just had to check and make sure.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You put a lot of emphasis on vertical. There's a lot of other considerations as to what constitutes athleticism than just how high a guy can jump while standing still. Generally speaking, watching tape, seeing how a guy moves and performs within the framework of his given sport is a great way to assess that, and that's where Ebron got rave reviews. Turns out you can't tell everything you need to know about a player from his combine numbers. These guys play football in pads, not run a decathlon in underwear.

Also, I find it very telling that you're so quick to dismiss Ebron's best recorded 40 time simply because he didn't run it at the combine. I'm more than willing to recognize Graham's best 40 time (still better than Ebron's best) even though it was from his pro day. What this all points to is that you didn't like the pick so much that you're going to see what you want to see out of the kid from here out, and what you want to see is for him to fail, so you're going to be fishing for every little thing you can to discredit him (which you've basically been doing since the draft).

It has nothing to do with wanting to see what I want to see regarding 40 times. Pro Days are always skewed in favor of the players. That is why you see every player's 40 times go down -- Pro Days are not electronically timed for the majority of them. Darqueze Dennard is a sub 4.4 CB if you want to talk about pro day 40 times. IF that was the case -- he would have been the 1st CB off the board.

The 1st article I looked at regarding pro day 40 times and this is the comment it starts with:

While 40-yard dash times recorded at Pro Days always should be taken with a grain (or mountain) of perspective

So while you think I am looking at only stats to argue my point -- the fact is -- I will only post numbers from the actual combine because it is the only time the athletes are being tested on a level playing field.

I think Ebron is an athletic TE. There are a lot of athletic TE's in the NFL. It guarantees nothing and I think it was a wasted pick if the Lions are truly in a win now mode in 2014. How many other guys would have looked great with the 10th pick right now, as we sit razor thin in depth at so multiple positions, yet we have 3 TE's?

Ebron could turn into a great player and I will gladly eat my words. I see him as a one dimensional TE, who will be, at best, the 3rd or 4th option on the offense side of the ball. I don't see the value in spending a top 10 pick on that. But that is just me.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I want to reiterate to those who think I hate Eric Ebron. I don't hate Eric Ebron. I hate the draft pick by the Lions.

When you have a top 10 pick -- you need to make the most of it. If Ebron was an every down TE who could run block, as well as split out wide and catch everything thrown his way -- I'd be ecstatic. He is one of three TE's though, and he also has the best WR in the NFL, another WR who catches everything near him and two RB's who had over 500 yards receiving last year. All of these players are signed for multiple years.

Where does Ebron fit in? A guy like Jimmy Graham was targeted 150 times last year Who are the Lions going to take away targets from to give to Ebron? Calvin Johnson? Golden Tate?

He gives the Lions a vertical threat at the TE position, but why would a team need to spend a top 10 pick on that?

I think being on the Lions will hurt the development of Ebron, as he isn't going to be used like he would have been on another team, where he would have been targeted many more times a game.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Trustme, I totally comprehend your frustration with the pick of Ebron. I didn't like it then but I live with it now because there is absolutely no worthiness involved in the debate of that draft pick.


I doubt, at the time of the draft, they had any exact plans that Green or Greenwood would be gone as final cuts, JMO.


No one could foresee into the future and know that VanNoy would get hurt or Bentley and Hilliard would be gone for the season due to injuries.


I like to look at next years draft this way. We don't have a current need for a starting QB, RB, WR or TE (injuries this year could change that). O-Line is a different story tho (Maybe a OT and OG depending on re-signing Sims or G. Reynolds).


My point is maybe next year the main focus on early rounds 1-4 will go towards CB, FS or SS, DT (only if Suh and/or Fairley are gone + if Reid pans out + re-sign CJ Mosley). DE should be set with Ansah, Johnson (should he continue solid play), Taylor, Webster. We might need to be looking for a MLB to groom as Levy, VanNoy and Whitehead should appear to be set as OLB.


There is hope at times. I just think all too often people/fans forget how devoid of talent we had in Quality Starters and then quality depth for back-ups. Mistakes in previous drafts (20009-2012) have hurt this team as does to many teams. Want proof (I haven't fact checked yet) but GB, Pit, NE and Bal have had some bad picks during those years.


Once again Trustme, My apologies for setting you off.

 

[RobBase]

I'm betting that the vast majority of those "nerds" he used to beat up and push around for the fun of it are probably doing pretty fucking well for themselves as adults. While being smart and paying attention in high school may not have been cool back then, it sure pays off as an adult (wish I was more of a "nerd" in school, and in college). Conversely, being a bully may have made people cool in certain crowds in high school, but once high school is over that kind of attitude is just a giant anchor that drags those types down, down, down in the real world...

There's my op-ed piece for the evening.

You're seriously retarded.

 

[Old Lion]

The only thing I will say is EE looks better than I thought he would by this time. Runs good routes. Blocking was not much to see, but he wont be asked to do a ton of it. Needs to prove he can catch. I am in wait and see mode.


Too many other players to focus on to worry about a rookie TE who will not play full time this year.

 

[RobBase]

Oh fuck man, some people here (ok, one guy, at least) are fucking goddamn cartoon characters.

"I don't care what nerds say..."

Who the fuck still uses the term "nerd" in a derogatory context in everyday speak? Most of us have grown up and matured since we were 16- we realize that being a meatheaded bully probably won't get us far in life. Others? Ehh, not so much, apparently.

I think that kind of statement says a whole lot right there...

Nerd.

 

[RobBase]

Btw Mike I was calling the star nerds, nerds. Not you.

 

[broncosmitty]

 

[tpaulus_2]

Great movie.

 

[LPinSLC]

Fucking dweebs and geeks around here.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Fuckin' squares. Jeepers!

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I doubt, at the time of the draft, they had any exact plans that Green or Greenwood would be gone as final cuts, JMO.


No one could foresee into the future and know that VanNoy would get hurt or Bentley and Hilliard would be gone for the season due to injuries.


I like to look at next years draft this way. We don't have a current need for a starting QB, RB, WR or TE (injuries this year could change that). O-Line is a different story tho (Maybe a OT and OG depending on re-signing Sims or G. Reynolds).


My point is maybe next year the main focus on early rounds 1-4 will go towards CB, FS or SS, DT (only if Suh and/or Fairley are gone + if Reid pans out + re-sign CJ Mosley). DE should be set with Ansah, Johnson (should he CONTINUE solid play), Taylor, Webster. We might need to be looking for a MLB to groom as Levy, VanNoy and Whitehead should appear to be set as OLB.


There is hope at times. I just think all too often people/fans forget how devoid of talent we had in Quality Starters and then quality depth for back-ups. Mistakes in previous drafts (20009-2012) have hurt this team as does to many teams. Want proof (I haven't fact checked yet) but GB, Pit, NE and Bal have had some bad picks during those years.

I do understand what you are saying on most everything. What I can't agree on is the lack of depth at many positions. The Lions know their roster better than anyone, I would hope. We've been very lucky the last couple years with the exception of the WR position, as we've been healthy.

The one position where we were solid, after finding an undrafted FA that scores 7 touchdowns as a rookie to pair with a solid two way TE, who excels at blocking is TE.

I realize he is our pick and nothing can be changed now. I actually think Ebron could be a quality TE, but on a team in 'win now mode' -- I don't get spending a top 10 pick on someone who will be a #3 or #4 option during the duration of his rookie contract. I don't think Ebron will ever live up to his potential on the Lions, as he won't get the targets he would elsewhere.

Have to cut this short as the little guy is waking up. I will leave it at this. You state the team is void of talent and depth up until 2012. Why spend a pick on a TE when you have Pettigrew and Fauria then? It is one of the positions where you actually have depth.

 

[Kreton]

Why spend a pick on a TE when you have Pettigrew and Fauria then? It is one of the positions where you actually have depth.

Pettigrew is trash and fauria is a good #2

 

[Raid]

He has the time to step up. I think he scores a TD this week and everyone will be gushin' over him.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Pettigrew is trash and fauria is a good #2

Care to elaborate on why Pettigrew is trash? I think he fills his role pretty well. I'm disappointed that he never fulfilled his draft status, being a first rounder and all, but he's still a good TE, imo. Not a playmaker, and not worth where we drafted him, but that doesn't make him trash, it just means he was over-drafted. He should have been a 2nd/3rd rounder based on his career production, imo.

Overall, though, I'm happy he's on this team right now- he's a versatile component in this offense and allows us to be more multiple within the same personnel grouping(s).