The Case Against MJ as the GOAT (topical discussion only please)

[Stakesarehigh]

Indeed, but while MJ fans regularly try to view MJ’s entire career as a 63 point game that was a loss in the playoffs, “The Shot”, 6 championship seasons only… You have to hold Jordan’s Wizards career against him, and while it was solid, he wasn’t a top 10 player in the league, not close.

I hold him quitting like a child against him more than the Wiz days. What would his legacy look like had he hung on in Chicago? To me it was intentional so we could never separate what that looks like sans Scottie.

 

[dtgold88]

I hold him quitting like a child against him more than the Wiz days. What would his legacy look like had he hung on in Chicago? To me it was intentional so we could never separate what that looks like sans Scottie.

doesn't make him a lesser player, but I'd hold his giving Krause so much shit against him, too. Guy who helped build the team around him. He was 10X the GM that MJ was.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

doesn't make him a lesser player, but I'd hold his giving Krause so much shit against him, too. Guy who helped build the team around him. He was 10X the GM that MJ was.

Jordan was a legit bully. He didnt want Krause to get his due.

 

[dtgold88]

Jordan was a legit bully. He didnt want Krause to get his due.

Yep....guess to be fair while maybe not a bully and thought way more of him than MJ thought of Krause, Griffin had no interest in staying here and hated trying to have to cater to Lebron and his whims/ideas.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Yep....guess to be fair while maybe not a bully and thought way more of him than MJ thought of Krause, Griffin had no interest in staying here and hated trying to have to cater to Lebron and his whims/ideas.

If youre trying to separate your skill as a GM, player personnel guy having someone like Lebron can be a nuisance im sure

 

[dtgold88]

If youre trying to separate your skill as a GM, player personnel guy having someone like Lebron can be a nuisance im sure

Yep....Lebron can be even worse than fans. Fans want to make deals for name over fit. Lebron will make them for name AND guys he likes over fit.

Look at me....almost like I'm not a Lebron lover and willing to be critical when warranted.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Jordan was a legit bully. He didnt want Krause to get his due.

Jordan was a drama queen.. whined to the refs, often tried to work with them a la James Harden. And yes, he was a diva to the Bulls organization

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Yep....Lebron can be even worse than fans. Fans want to make deals for name over fit. Lebron will make them for name AND guys he likes over fit.

Look at me....almost like I'm not a Lebron lover and willing to be critical when warranted.

Agreed. But that’s this era where players can call the shots. If MJ played today, he’d be entitled and pressuring franchises. He’d be probably in jail for his rabid gambling too lol

 

[tlance]

Agreed. But that’s this era where players can call the shots. If MJ played today, he’d be entitled and pressuring franchises. He’d be probably in jail for his rabid gambling too lol

That is the craziest part of this debate to me.

When people talk about how Jordan played for 1 team and didn’t use his influence as much (he did try) to control the roster as some kind of win in MJ’s column.

Players from prior generations are jealous of current players. The money, the freedom of movement, the influence…

They didn’t have any of that.

But it is crazy naive to think they wouldn’t have taken advantage if they had the same opportunity.

 

[dtgold88]

That is the craziest part of this debate to me.

When people talk about how Jordan played for 1 team and didn’t use his influence as much (he did try) to control the roster as some kind of win in MJ’s column.

Players from prior generations are jealous of current players. The money, the freedom of movement, the influence…

They didn’t have any of that.

But it is crazy naive to think they wouldn’t have taken advantage if they had the same opportunity.

Of course.....as much as he despised the really good GM in Chicago I have no doubt if another team could come close to paying him what the Bulls did (Maybe the Knicks?) very good chance MJ leaves.

And hell even though not as common didn't Barkley ask for and receive a trade?