Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[TrustMeIamRight]

I think Ebron can be as good as Julius Thomas.

If Peyton Manning is traded to the Lions -- I agree. I love Stafford and think he is the best QB we've had in a long, long time, but no one is going to confuse him for Manning.

Manning makes the players around him better and he is basically a coach on the field playing QB.

Also -- let's have Ebron catch a ball in a regular season game before saying he will be as good as any player.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

trustme, key words were "can be" as good as Julius Thomas.... no mention of Manning or Stafford... but I do "comprehend your thought process"... your getting technical.... Would CJ (MegaTron) still be as good as he is with........ say, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart or Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Andre Ware, Dan Orlovsky throwing him the rock ?

 

[broncosmitty]

I thought she might be scared of Smitty telling her how much of "This Jim" she'd be getting. but it was appropriate in the other context it was meant for too.

Id give her all the Jim I could. Those dimples are awesome!

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Id give her all the Jim I could. Those dimples are awesome!

Dimples, back ? thigh ? butt ?.... oh, her facial ones... my bad

 

[broncosmitty]

Dimples, back ? thigh ? butt ?.... oh, her facial ones... my bad

Now you've got my mind wandering.......


Who is this girl!?!

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I had an ex just like that waaaay back in the day...with the dimples on the aforementioned above...... damn she was 1 sexy......

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

trustme, key words were "can be" as good as Julius Thomas.... no mention of Manning or Stafford... but I do "comprehend your thought process"... your getting technical.... Would CJ (MegaTron) still be as good as he is with........ say, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart or Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Andre Ware, Dan Orlovsky throwing him the rock ?

I know Manning wasn't mentioned. I'm saying Julius Thomas has been as good as he is, because of, Peyton Manning.

Manning makes all of his TE's look great. Hell -- he even made Jacob Tamme look like a really good NFL TE. Here is a good example:

Tamme with Manning in 2010 -- 67 catches for 631 yards in 16 games.
Tamme without Manning in 2011 -- 19 catches for 177 yards in 16 games.
Tamme with Manning in 2012 -- 52 catches for 555 yards in 16 games.

Manning makes the players around him better and no spot more than the TE position. Julius Thomas is a really good TE, but I am not sure how much of it is the Peyton Manning factor.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Yeah, the pick was just awful at ten. Unless hes Jimmy Graham, it was a bad pick, and that shouldnt sit well for any lions fan. Mayhew is gambling the lions future on ebron being as good as jimmy graham. Any less of a player and hes not worth that pick. I dont mind the guy and he could very well have a good career, but he was not worth the tenth pick in the draft and therein lies the problem.

So since I bust your chops when I don't agree with you, it's only fair I give you props when I do agree.

This one is spot-on imo.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Do I think Dennard, Donald and Dix would be starting over the players on the Lions roster? Yes, Yes and Yes. CB is the weakest position on our team -- our 4th round pick is going to be a starter the rest of the year for us. Nick Fairley was on the 2nd string until the last week, getting out played by CJ Moseley, so yes, I think Donald could have absolutely started for us. Quudus (sp) was our starting safety in the 1st game of the year, who we picked up off waivers. We have no idea what Ihedbigo is going to bring, as he has been a full time starter for one full season in 8 years in the NFL.

That was a silly question. To add to it -- not only do I think they could have started for the Lions -- it would have solved long term needs for the team, as Ihedigo is 31 or 32, both of DT's are FA after this year and we have a starting CB that is 34 years old.

Lionstop -- what Detroit's offense has been missing since Stafford was the QB is a complement to Calvin Johnson. If Golden Tate plays like he did the 1st game and catches everything in site -- who do you think Stafford is going to be looking for on important downs if Calvin isn't open?

I will say AGAIN. It isn't that I don't think Ebron can't be a great player in the NFL. I think he will be very limited in his opportunities on the Lions, not only this year, but going forward.

Lastly -- there is a HUGE difference between being the #1 option in the passing offense and the #1 option on an individual play. Calvin Johnson will be targeted 150 times a year as the #1 option in the Lions offense, just like Jimmy Graham is targeted roughly the same amount in New Orleans. The #2 option will receive slightly less than that, which is where Golden Tate will be, in the 100-120 range. When you include passes to RB's and the other TE's -- Ebron is left with the rest.

There are only so many balls to go around. That is why I asked the question about what would be a successful year for him in Detroit, as he could easily have many games just like the first where he gets 3 passes thrown to him the whole game.



None of these guys were rated higher where?

I agree with Lionstop that none of those guys would be starters for us. I think you're stretching it pretty thin with calling some of these guys "starters" because they replaced the regular starter due to injury. That means they're 2nd stringers, imo.

Also, I think it's pretty presumptuous to call another posters opinion silly simply because it doesn't jive with your opinion. Nothing wrong with disagreeing, but just argue your point.

Overall I think whether or not those guys would start for us is completely up for debate. I personally don't think Dennard, or Fuller would be starting over Slay or Mathis yet, Clinton Dix wouldn't be starting over Quin (Digs is a strong safety, HaHa is not, so that's a moot comparison), and Donald would be heavy in the rotation, but not starting.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Lol. See, its funny when people say Mayhew is putting the entire future of the team on the Ebron pick as if a different player would automatically take the team to the promise land. Ahahahahaha.

This. Why do some assume a defensive pick is just going to automatically pan out? I understand wanting the guy you wanted and all (I wanted Donald), but we don't know who will or won't turn out to be the real deal yet- way too soon to tell still.

I also find it telling that nobody in the pro-CB in the 1st round club will touch Big Blue's posts about which CB Mayhew should have drafted instead. He's put that up there a few times now, and nobody seems interested in actually looking into that. I think its easier to complain about him not taking a 1st round CB when the facts are shadowed, rather than laid out like that.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I know Manning wasn't mentioned. I'm saying Julius Thomas has been as good as he is, because of, Peyton Manning.

Manning makes all of his TE's look great. Hell -- he even made Jacob Tamme look like a really good NFL TE. Here is a good example:

Tamme with Manning in 2010 -- 67 catches for 631 yards in 16 games.
Tamme without Manning in 2011 -- 19 catches for 177 yards in 16 games.
Tamme with Manning in 2012 -- 52 catches for 555 yards in 16 games.

Manning makes the players around him better and no spot more than the TE position. Julius Thomas is a really good TE, but I am not sure how much of it is the Peyton Manning factor.

The receivers still have to catch the ball. Yes, Manning throws a catchable ball the vast majority of time. The drop rate % along with #'s of drop balls, targets, receptions, has been the biggest convo question mark regarding Ebron. Now take into account that Stafford, in previous years/games, has shown that tendency to be inconsistent with accuracy and catchable balls thrown.

 

[tpaulus_2]

No. I know that a defensive player or an offensive tackle being picked at ten would give the lions a much better chance. Aha.

The counter argument here is that we don't know how well any of those other guys would/will pan out. It's easy to look at holes and say those would have been better picks, but you're not accounting for the chance that the tackle or CB we might have picked busts out. Of course, Ebron could well be a bust, too. One never knows this early in the process.

Would taking a defender have made more sense? Yes. Does that automaticaly make it the better pick? No.



Also, I think the sudden regret/need to draft a tackle at #10 is a huge over-reaction. Our sophomore starting RT has a short-term injury. He doesn't need to be replaced over a freaking calf injury...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Hey its great that the lions have three big, athletic tight ends. But because they chose to add another one in the first round, mind you they will need to continue putting up 30 ppg against good offense. Fortunately for lions fans, as long as they can keep the penalties and turnovers down they should be able to do just that and finish 9-7. Unfortunately the back end of that defense will collapse against good offense and teams like the saints will be able to outscore them.

That's just your projection, though. Imo you can't just throw that out there as an absolute.

Our defensive scheme has been entirely gutted, and is tailored to the player's strengths, rather than the last system of doing it Schwartz's way regardless of the player's skill-set.

Now I'm not saying that we're suddenly going to have an awesome secondary, but I also think the gloom-and-doom stuff with our secondary is over blown. They're not among the best in the league, but they're not among the worst, either.

 

[Kreton]

trustme, key words were "can be" as good as Julius Thomas.... no mention of Manning or Stafford... but I do "comprehend your thought process"... your getting technical.... Would CJ (MegaTron) still be as good as he is with........ say, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart or Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Andre Ware, Dan Orlovsky throwing him the rock ?

Cj was still a good wr he had shitty qbs throwing him the rock. He became great with stafford

 

[tpaulus_2]

1. It doesn't matter what RB is in the backfield, Bush or Bell. NO's style offense throws the ball over and over to RB's. It is one of the reasons why Brees completes 70% of his passes.

2. If Ebron was the #2 option in the passing game and given 100-120 targets, instead of say 60-70 -- I would sure hope he is more productive. On a team with Calvin Johnson -- opposing defenses can't double everyone and not many teams are going to be foolish like the Giants and single Calvin Johnson.

Basically -- all I'm saying is -- Being so far down the pecking order in an offense of established NFL players -- his looks will be limited and he could have multiple games just like the 1st game. IF he has any issues catching the ball, it will limit his opportunities even more, as Stafford will be hesitant to throw his way.

You do know we get to keep him, right? It's not as if we drafted him for this season and then he goes back into the pool...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I also find it telling that nobody in the pro-CB in the 1st round club will touch Big Blue's posts about which CB Mayhew should have drafted instead. He's put that up there a few times now, and nobody seems interested in actually looking into that. I think its easier to complain about him not taking a 1st round CB when the facts are shadowed, rather than laid out like that.

I responded to him. Obviously every year isn't going to have 1st round talent at certain positions as the drafts are deep at different positions every year. This year happened to be a year where their was 3-5 guys in talks of being 1st round talents, with 3 of them being talked about as top 15 talent.

Also -- you can play the hypothetical game with every pick in the draft. My example was the year we drafted Young or Broyles. We had a huge need at OLB and I was positive we'd draft Larry David if he fell to us. Instead we drafted a wR and David went on to be an All-Pro LB, while our draft pick hasn't done much of anything.

That is the nature of the draft.

My issue isn't with Ebron. It is the fact the Lions spent a top 10 pick on the Tight End position, in general. Only two TE's in the NFL could be considered as top 10 pick worthy, IMO. Graham, as he is an absolute freak athlete, who at 6'7" is a mismatch even if you have him covered. The other is Gronkowski, as he is one of the best blockers in the NFL, as well as an elite pass catcher.

Ebron won't even have the opportunity to live up to his draft position on the Lions. He will not have the opportunity to put up elite TE numbers as he will be splitting duties with multiple TE's and a duo of WR that could be considered one of the top 5 pairs in the NFL.

That is why I have called him a luxury pick, as the only thing he really brings the Lions is a vertical threat at the TE position. They already have a safety net/blocking TE in Pettigrew and a red zone TE in Fauria.

If given the opportunity -- maybe he could put up big numbers, but there is no chance he is going to be given 100+ targets on a team with the weapons they already have.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The receivers still have to catch the ball. Yes, Manning throws a catchable ball the vast majority of time. The drop rate % along with #'s of drop balls, targets, receptions, has been the biggest convo question mark regarding Ebron. Now take into account that Stafford, in previous years/games, has shown that tendency to be inconsistent with accuracy and catchable balls thrown.

I'm not sure what this comment was made in regards to? What are you trying to say here?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You do know we get to keep him, right? It's not as if we drafted him for this season and then he goes back into the pool...

You do know we have Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate, Brandon Pettigrew and Fauria signed for multiple seasons, right?

Don't quote me on Fauria, as that is an assumption. Johnson, Tate and Pettigrew, I believe we have for the next 4 years. This doesn't include the other WRs or TEs we all KNOW Mayhew will draft in the upcoming years, as he can't help himself.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Our defensive scheme has been entirely gutted, and is tailored to the player's strengths, rather than the last system of doing it Schwartz's way regardless of the player's skill-set.

Basically what you are saying is -- Our GM drafted CB's who specialized in man coverage to come to Detroit to play zone coverage. You can blame Schwartz, but Schwartz was hired by Mayhew and Mayhew knew exactly what type of defense would be running.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Basically what you are saying is -- Our GM drafted CB's who specialized in man coverage to come to Detroit to play zone coverage. You can blame Schwartz, but Schwartz was hired by Mayhew and Mayhew knew exactly what type of defense would be running.

Mayhew also wanted to fire Schwartz before last year, but wasn't allowed to.

He hasn't been the greatest GM by a long shot, but nobody can deny that Schwartz was a terrible head coach.