Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[Old Lion]

Man still on this train. I'd venture out to make a bet, had the Lions chosen CB Justin Gilbert and seeing his play to date for the Browns, there'd be far less bitching about him, if he were a Lion, than what we're seeing here from the Ebron pick. Gilbert has been on the bench a lot or just hasn't performed well at all so far.


BTW, Dr.Evil wanted Domer OT, Zach Martin. Now, how many would have been bitching about that pick seeing all the trouble we're having at RT ? Martin is starting for Dallas at RG.


All rookies take time to develop, regardless of who they are, even when the very few that have break-out 1st years can regress some in their 2nd year (look at Warford in a new system). Just wait for the 3 year time period to pass before coming to a conclusion on what you might have in a prospect. Shit, glad we have Levy and it took him 5 years before his true breakout year.

Gilbert has been pretty bad. Beaten a lot when he is out there. Toasted sometimes.

I agree our new offensive system is having the opposite effect on the players compared to how the new defensive system is on the other side. I am starting to get concerned. Hopefully they pick it up and gel in a hurry.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I know about Gilbert. What I'm sayingis that some posters in here would be giving Gilbert a break for the sole purpose that playing CB is considered the most difficult to transition into coming from college, that in and of itself, would be the statement/excuse. Ebron doesn't get that kind of pass coming from college into a much more sophisticated offense than what he learned while in college ball.

 

[Thruthefog]

But if he develops into a 1200/10 a year guy he was well worth the 10th pick.

That's pretty much what they have been saying. If he develops into Jimmy Graham, he will be worth the pick.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Why is it so hard to believe that at some point during a game, a defense will react to what he does and that he can draw coverage? I dont get that.

Where have I said he won't draw coverage? They aren't letting him run routes uncovered, so of course, he is drawing coverage.

My statement was -- Teams are not coming up with special game plans to stop Ebron. Is he drawing coverage by running a seam route? Yes -- the same coverage Fuller would draw if he was running that route, the same coverage Tate would draw if he were running that route.

So to answer your question -- Yes, Ebron draws coverage, but teams are still doing the exact same thing to limit the Lions offense. The only team who didn't drop their safeties 20 yards off the line of scrimmage and double Calvin basically all game. The Giants. Who also happen to be the game our offense looked the best.

 

[TwoCents22]

Well Jimmy Graham is more like a 1200/15 guy, but I was meaning a notch below lol

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

That's why you can't debate with him. Stats are discarded because Ebron isn't them, opinions are "nothing more than a guess" and actual film doesn't mean anything because "any team could freeze frame plays to show open players"

If you had said -- IMO or I believe or I think, etc. before making your comment -- it would be an opinion. When you say this:

Ebron is faster on the field than Gronk or Graham.

That isn't an opinion -- You are stating it as fact, which is why I said it is nothing more than a guess you are making.

As far as game film -- unless you breakdown the entire game -- you can shine a positive light or a negative light on any player. Are you saying you can't?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

All you're doing is making up all these lofty standards that you think Ebron should meet because you didnt like the pick and if he doesnt meet those standards, you will CONTINUE to say he wasnt worth the pick. How in the hell would you even know what player is worthy of what pick when you dont even work in the NFL? People kill me with that. None of us know crap about Ebron as a person or a player.

What is lofty expectations? If we had drafted Sammy Watkins or Mike Evans (or any WR) with a top 10 pick -- Are you saying 8 catches for 80 yards would be right on target with what you would expect thru 5 games?

Ebron wasn't drafted on a run first team or on team without a #1 where teams would be keying on him. He was drafted by a team who passes more than almost every team in the NFL. He is facing single coverage almost exclusively.

He couldn't have asked for a better team to step on to as a rookie. Going forward, IMO, it will hinder his development, as he won't get as many looks as he would elsewhere, as he will never be #1 or #2 in targets on the Lions with Calvin and Tate on the team.

 

[LPinSLC]

Ebron is going to get scrutinized because of the position he plays and where he was drafted. What's done is done though. Gilbert would be given a pass because of position and it was a position of need. The only reason I can see justifying the pick is if it is for a future without CJ.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

What I'm sayingis that some posters in here would be giving Gilbert a break for the sole purpose that playing CB is considered the most difficult to transition into coming from college, that in and of itself, would be the statement/excuse

I do agree with you on this. CB is generally considered the toughest position to transition to in the NFL, so I know I would be more lenient.

Ebron was drafted to be a receiving threat. He wasn't drafted for his blocking or to improve the running game. He was drafted to split out wide and run vertical routes.

The part that I hate more than anything is -- averaging 3 targets a game. 3 targets. That is absolutely ridiculous. If you are going to spend a top 10 pick on a TE -- USE HIM. Throw him the ball. Let him try and make plays. That is why I didn't put too much into the one screen shot of him not getting the ball on the seam route. If it was happening with regularity -- they would have posted multiple times it happened. It makes me believe (and this is just my opinion), that he isn't getting open with regularity and that is the reason why his targets are limited.

I could be wrong. I just think -- if he was getting open, he would be seeing the ball much more often.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The only reason I can see justifying the pick is if it is for a future without CJ.

That is exactly what I was thinking. If the plan is to cut ties with Calvin in the next year or two -- I can see making the pick.

How many targets will he actually see each year if Calvin and Tate are on the roster with him, as basically the 3rd option out of the guys running routes, not including RB's?

 

[LPinSLC]

That is exactly what I was thinking. If the plan is to cut ties with Calvin in the next year or two -- I can see making the pick.

How many targets will he actually see each year if Calvin and Tate are on the roster with him, as basically the 3rd option out of the guys running routes, not including RB's?

Even then I don't love it. We'll still need a #1 WR. I could at least understand the thought process though.

 

[LPinSLC]

This year has shown how important coaching/schemes are.

The defense was thin in the secondary and had some depth concerns. Even after all the injuries they have played well.

The Offense was believed to be the Lions strength and to say they haven't lived up to the hype would be an understatement.

 

[lionstop1]

In sports you put your best players on the field at all times and when someone does come out, its highly benificial to have a player that can come in and the drop-off in talent doesnt drop tremendously.

With the Lions situation, you want it to be as hard as possible for a team to be able to handle Ebron. The idea is that Tate and CJ will command so much attention, that Ebron will take advantage and win his matchups consistently. If he can do that, help keep the chains moving, and score some points, he will be well worth the the pick.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Ebron was drafted to be a receiving threat. He wasn't drafted for his blocking or to improve the running game. He was drafted to split out wide and run vertical routes.

The part that I hate more than anything is -- averaging 3 targets a game. 3 targets. That is absolutely ridiculous. If you are going to spend a top 10 pick on a TE -- USE HIM. Throw him the ball. Let him try and make plays.

Why not wait, at least until the end of the regular, so you can have more looks into whether he's progressed or not. We All know from watching Stafford over the years, he has had difficulty in trusting other receivers. He'll throw to Calvin in double and triple coverage, when I've clearly seen a receiver(s) open. Perfect example for me would be opening night this year. Stafford threw CJ that ball near the opponents 20-25 yd line, right in the seam, and CJ dropped the ball after being drop to the ground and lo and behold, Ebron was wide the fuck open underneath in a seam route right behind CJ, near the 35 or 40 yd line with no one close to him for 7-10 yds. Yep, only 1 example but it goes to show you Stafford threw into coverage when he could have easily hit Ebron underneath.

 

[Thruthefog]

Well Jimmy Graham is more like a 1200/15 guy, but I was meaning a notch below lol

Hell. I'd be tickled shitless with 1200/10.

 

[Kreton]

I do agree with you on this. CB is generally considered the toughest position to transition to in the NFL, so I know I would be more lenient.

Ebron was drafted to be a receiving threat. He wasn't drafted for his blocking or to improve the running game. He was drafted to split out wide and run vertical routes.

The part that I hate more than anything is -- averaging 3 targets a game. 3 targets. That is absolutely ridiculous. If you are going to spend a top 10 pick on a TE -- USE HIM. Throw him the ball. Let him try and make plays. That is why I didn't put too much into the one screen shot of him not getting the ball on the seam route. If it was happening with regularity -- they would have posted multiple times it happened. It makes me believe (and this is just my opinion), that he isn't getting open with regularity and that is the reason why his targets are limited.

I could be wrong. I just think -- if he was getting open, he would be seeing the ball much more often.

Tight ends take time to develop. Tight ends take time to develop. Tight ends take time to develop. Tight ends take time to develop.

Almost no te makes a huge impact right out of the gate. Why? Tight ends take time to develop.

 

[Old Lion]

The issue with a TE in this type of offense is that he needs to learn every route because he is being asked to line up everywhere. A regular in-line TE probably only has half as much to digest. Also, Ebron is not going to be the best TE in the league. His hands are getting much better but I am not sure they will ever be great. He can be a top 10 for sure. Get close to 1000 yards and 8 TDs. He wont be Gates (when he was young anyway) or Graham. He does not have to be with CJ and Tate.

 

[LPinSLC]

The issue with a TE in this type of offense is that he needs to learn every route because he is being asked to line up everywhere. A regular in-line TE probably only has half as much to digest. Also, Ebron is not going to be the best TE in the league. His hands are getting much better but I am not sure they will ever be great. He can be a top 10 for sure. Get close to 1000 yards and 8 TDs. He wont be Gates (when he was young anyway) or Graham. He does not have to be with CJ and Tate.

I actually think he'll be a good TE. My issue was never talent. My issue was position. I just don't agree with a TE with a top 10 pick.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The issue with a TE in this type of offense is that he needs to learn every route because he is being asked to line up everywhere. A regular in-line TE probably only has half as much to DIGEST

Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe I read that Ebron ran a full route tree at UNC, as he was lined up out wide quite often. So it isn't learning routes that he is doing. It is learning the play book. Ebron wasn't used as a regular in-line TE at UNC. He was basically used the same way the Lions are using him.

I think his toughest part is learning techniques in the blocking scheme, as he wasn't used as much in blocking as most TE's in college.

I'd think the biggest

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I actually think he'll be a good TE. My issue was never talent. My issue was position. I just don't agree with a TE with a top 10 pick.

Yep. This is what I've been saying. It isn't that I do not believe he can be a good TE -- I don't think he will get the targets to live up to where we drafted him. We could have filled the same role he will have on the Lions in a later round.

If he was drafted, because the Lions have a plan in place to move Calvin Johnson in the next year or two -- I would actually be fine with the pick. If we have Johnson and Tate for the duration of Ebron's rookie deal -- IMO, it was a wasted pick.