Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[TrustMeIamRight]

Point is, TE's take time to develop. It is natural. Rarely does a TE come in and put up probowl numbers his first 5 weeks. Take a fucking breath and relax. Ebron should be just fine. His numbers that you constantly complain about are fine.

My point is -- when he was drafted. Many on here talked about how he was going to be mismatch for defenses, was going to be play the Jimmy Graham role, teams wouldn't be able to cover him and double Calvin, along with Tate.

Well -- the season is about a third of the way done. He is averaging 1.6 catches and 16 yards a game. He has 8 catches and 2 drops, to go along with 3rd worst catch rate of the 44 TE's who qualify for this.

This is with Calvin being hurt the last two games, Bell being out, Bush being out. That is why I said -- you can make the game films look any way you'd like. Why don't they show the other couple dozen routes that Ebron ran against Buffalo, instead of cherry picking one and saying, see, he was open here.

 

[gandydancer]

With Fauria out Ebron should be distancing himself as a go to target.

I don't see that. This is his opportunity to make plays and get Stafford's trust. I am wondering if Ebron is having trouble learning the routes?

While I can see why you question that, I believe the article shows he is running his routes. Once it opened Tate and once it opened him up. Seems he is progressing in learning the offense. Just seems Stafford missed the reads for reasons not explained. Both images look to have a good clean pocket. Just guessing he missed it or his progression had someone else open first??

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Point is, TE's take time to develop.

Most TE's aren't drafted 10th overall. A select few will be drafted mid-late first round.

And as TP pointed out after the draft -- He wasn't selected to be a TE -- he was selected to be our 3rd WR. Pettigrew is handling the blocking.

Don't any of you get tired of the whole "developing" talk? Isn't Watkins, Evans, Cooks, Benjamin, Beckham developing too? Why are they still producing for their teams? Evans has a terrible QB and has only played 4 games, and he still has 17 catches and 218 yards. Benjamin has 27 catches and 350+ yards. Cooks has 32 catches already. Watkins is going to end up being the best of the bunch by the end of the year if Orton stays at QB.

I keep hearing how it takes time to develop -- but if Detroit was looking for someone to catch passes and line up out wide -- DRAFT A WIDE RECEIVER. They only called last year's draft one of the best WR classes in the past 10 years.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The article talks about his blocking. He took the DE one on one.

Imagine MikeD could answer this... Was he really used as a blocker in college? Did he whiff on blocks or was is that he was not expected as a blocker more so a receiving option?

Did not watch his film. Anyone answer that?

I think I read he wasn't used as a blocker much in college. This is what they had about his blocking in his player profile from the combine.

Lacks ideal height and bulk. Can IMPROVE as a blocker, both in-line and on the move -- could stand to improve technique, physicality and finish. Not equipped to lock horns with NFL defensive ends. Inconsistent adjusting to and fitting on moving targets. Blocking effort does not parallel that of receiving.

I haven't noticed any issues with him as a blocker so far. So that is a positive. They haven't written any bad about his blocking, so just like with the OL, the less you hear, the better you are playing. Then again -- I'm not sure how much he is being used as a blocker.

 

[TwoCents22]

Mine Evans would have probably been the pick, if available. Benjamin wasn't projected as even a top 20 pick by most. And it would've been dumb to draft another small slot WR. That leaves Ebron as the most logical pass catcher at the 10 spot.

Hesva hybrid TE. Just because he's going to get a lot of targets doesn't mean you just thro him in at WR. He's still got to learn the blocking aspect, as well, for when he's called on to do that. I do expect his learning curve to be smaller than a regular TE, but still not as small as a WR. I'll give him until the game after the bye week. I'm betting we'll see him breakout by then.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

With Fauria out Ebron should be distancing himself as a go to target.

THIS is what is frustrating me and the reason I actually picked him on my fantasy team. With Fauria out, Calvin hurt, Bell out and then last game Bush out. Stafford has to throw the ball to somebody.

That is why I said -- you can make game films look however you'd like. Ebron was in the game on 37 snaps vs Buffalo. He was targeted 4 times and had 2 catches for 8 yards.

Is he running deep routes and the line not giving it time for him to finish his route? Is he just not getting open? Does Stafford not trust him? Posting a screen shot of one play and saying, see he was wide open and Stafford didn't throw him the ball doesn't show anything. You could find a handful of plays for every team and every QB, where they miss a guy who was wide open, in every game.

That is the nature of the game. Sometimes it is on the QB for missing the open guy. Sometimes the open WR is his last progression and he makes a throw elsewhere first. Sometimes the line doesn't give the QB time to go thru his progressions. The only people who know the answer is the QB and coaches. All the media is doing is trying to drum up interest for people to talk about.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Mine Evans would have probably been the pick, if available. Benjamin wasn't projected as even a top 20 pick by most. And it would've been dumb to draft another small slot WR. That leaves Ebron as the most logical pass catcher at the 10 spot.

Hesva hybrid TE. Just because he's going to get a lot of targets doesn't mean you just thro him in at WR. He's still got to learn the blocking aspect, as well, for when he's called on to do that. I do expect his learning curve to be smaller than a regular TE, but still not as small as a WR. I'll give him until the game after the bye week. I'm betting we'll see him breakout by then.

What do you consider a breakout? I'd rather see consistency than a single breakout game. I'd like to see him become part of the offense, instead of an afterthought (he is averaging 3 targets a game).

I want to see the mismatch people talked about and the route running. If you are going to spend a top 10 pick on that position. He better be a difference maker or it was a wasted pick, IMO.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Ebron will be a good TE. However I cannot fathom any scenario where he will ever be worth the tenth pick in the draft...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ebron is faster on the field than Gronk or Graham. You can tell that by watching. He seems very natural.

I love talk like this, as if you put game tapes side by side and compared the players.

Second, why are you so hung up on his blocking? Though he's better than you think at it is irrelavent because you make it seem like its a necessity for a top 10 TE. Its not. To be a top 10 pick you have to be a guy who gets the ball. I could give a shit if he blocked like Graham (which he doesn't), he was brought here to be a weapon. Compare his blocking to Gronk, Pettigrew is just as good a blocker, and guess what the Pats do? They find TEs who are a little more athletic and maybe not as great blockers to compliment Gronk. That's what Pettigrew and Ebron will do, buddy. Stop being so blind to the situation.

Where am I hung up on his blocking? I said, IMO, the only TE's in the NFL worthy of a top 10 pick are Graham and Gronk. Graham isn't known for his blocking. He is split out wide the majority of plays he is on the field. Gronk IS known for his blocking and has been one of the best run blocking TE's in the NFL, though he did get undressed last game in pass protect by a DE.

Basically all I said is -- if Ebron was as big and athletic as Graham or he was a complete TE who was great at blocking and receiving -- I could see spending a top 10 pick on him.

There is nothing comparable about Graham and Ebron, other than they play the same position and both will split out wide during games. Graham is in a league of his own in the TE position.

As far as Gronk -- the guy catches everything and just gets open. He has been doing it since his rookie year and the only thing to stop him is injuries.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ebron will be a good TE. However I cannot fathom any scenario where he will ever be worth the tenth pick in the draft...

Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner. I think he will be like Jared Cook. He will have a big game now and then, but he won't be used enough to be consistent.

I will say this. Put Ebron on a team without 2 great WR's, 2 RB's that catch the ball, a red zone giant TE and a TE they use on dump offs and he could be a productive TE. On the Lions though -- I think he will see about the number of looks he has been, which is being targeted on roughly 20% of his routes he has run.

 

[TwoCents22]

I love talk like this, as if you put game tapes side by side and compared the players.

Coming from the guy who dismisses the actual game tape when it disproves him lol. I clearly said something to the effect of "watching the 2 you can tell Ebron is faster on the field". Please don't twist my words to make it seem as if I'm incinuating I have coaches tape and break down every player in the league. Moving on...

Back to the Ebron wide open play, It looks like an easy to break down. Not saying I know the reads, but with Bush running a drag route, and Ebron running the seam, one would think they're trying to get Bush man on man with a LB, which is where Stafford is looking. But both LBs in the area immediately go into zone. Should have been an easy completion to Ebron, unless one of 2 things happened 1. Stafford was locked in on bush or 2. Ebron wasn't suppose to run a seam route and it confused Stafford just long enough for him to hold the ball and get sacked.

 

[lionstop1]

Now that they came out with some clear evidence of stuff you questioned about Ebron, you're countering it with " you can make film look however you want". Thats crazy man. Why even attempt to compare him to other rookies that have completely different roles on their teams than Ebron does? To set such high standards for this guy is crazy too.

 

[TwoCents22]

That's crazy to think he won't ever be worth the 10th pick no matter what, just because he's a TE. You can use that logic for multiple positions except for QB. As long as its not the guy you wanted them to draft. "Well if that corner doesn't turn out to be Richard Sherman he wasn't worth the pick". " if that linebacker isn't Patrick Willis", ect. Come on, if you don't like him because he had/has a problem with drops, I get it. But if he develops into a 1200/10 a year guy he was well worth the 10th pick.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Its not crazy at all. I have nothing personal against ebron, I think he will do well, its just a mistake to draft a TE that cant block tha high in the draft. Its a huge risk by the lions with a small chance of reward (ebron being worth a top ten pick). I couldnt make that argument for a CB or LB, they have much more value being drafted higher especially CB. I agree, anyone could flourish or bust as the tenth pick. I would much rather put my faith in a position that is deserving of that high of a pick. TE is not.

 

[tpaulus_2]

TP -- We are looking at the same film they did. What would you like me to say? I said Stafford should of made the throw and I'd be willing to bet if Stafford was questioned about the play -- He would say that he didn't even see him.

We don't know what his progressions are in the play -- The deep route to Ebron could have been the last option and by the time he got to him -- it wasn't there.

You can make game film look any way you'd like. Unless you are talking to the guys who were on the field -- we have no idea what play was called (we can look at the routes), what his reads were and why he didn't make the throw. We have no idea what his progressions are though.

So I will say, ONCE AGAIN, STAFFORD SHOULD HAVE THROWN THE BALL TO EBRON THERE, he obviously missed an opportunity to try for a big play.

We are? That's news to me. If you could please share this team film you have I'd be very happy to take a look at it.

Generally, when people on here refer to "looking at film" they mean highlights and T.V. footage that we all saw. I'm talking about the actual coaches film, which the beat writers get to break down. Maybe this is news to you, since you think the TV footage is the same "film" everyone watches, but there's a whole lot more cameras filming the action than just the ones they use on TV. They made that "all-22" film available to buy last year, which is about as close to the real coaches film as it gets, since it allows one to watch an entire play, not just the small section of the field the TV cameras show.

 

[Kreton]

My point is -- when he was drafted. Many on here talked about how he was going to be mismatch for defenses, was going to be play the Jimmy Graham role, teams wouldn't be able to cover him and double Calvin, along with Tate.

Well -- the season is about a third of the way done. He is averaging 1.6 catches and 16 yards a game. He has 8 catches and 2 drops, to go along with 3rd worst catch rate of the 44 TE's who qualify for this.

This is with Calvin being hurt the last two games, Bell being out, Bush being out. That is why I said -- you can make the game films look any way you'd like. Why don't they show the other couple dozen routes that Ebron ran against Buffalo, instead of cherry picking one and saying, see, he was open here.

Thats bullshit or you are just being stupid. Again, historically TE's take time to develop. They have a lot of roles to play on an NFL team. Just because he hasn't done it in his first 5 fucking games doesn't mean the guy is not going to be a mismatch for defenses or anything else. You have rediculously unreasonable standards and then tend to constantly bitch on here here when someone fails to meet your absurd standards.

Again I'll try to tell you this. Maybe at some point it will sink in. TE's TAKE TIME TO DEVELOP. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE GREAT IN 5 GAMES. Accept it. It is a fucking fact.

 

[Kreton]

That's crazy to think he won't ever be worth the 10th pick no matter what, just because he's a TE. You can use that logic for multiple positions except for QB. As long as its not the guy you wanted them to draft. "Well if that corner doesn't turn out to be Richard Sherman he wasn't worth the pick". " if that linebacker isn't Patrick Willis", ect. Come on, if you don't like him because he had/has a problem with drops, I get it. But if he develops into a 1200/10 a year guy he was well worth the 10th pick.

Apparently if they are Richard Sherman within 5 games he wasn't worth the pick. I've noticed that with many posters on here/cbs over the years. Every rookie who isn't ROY/ProBowl immediately is a bust. Apparently giving players time to develop is frowned upon in Detroit.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Coming from the guy who dismisses the actual game tape when it disproves him lol. I clearly said something to the effect of "watching the 2 you can tell Ebron is faster on the field". Please don't twist my words to make it seem as if I'm incinuating I have coaches tape and break down every player in the league. Moving on...

Back to the Ebron wide open play, It looks like an easy to break down. Not saying I know the reads, but with Bush running a drag route, and Ebron running the seam, one would think they're trying to get Bush man on man with a LB, which is where Stafford is looking. But both LBs in the area immediately go into zone. Should have been an easy completion to Ebron, unless one of 2 things happened 1. Stafford was locked in on bush or 2. Ebron wasn't suppose to run a seam route and it confused Stafford just long enough for him to hold the ball and get sacked.

Exactly- this was his same m.o. on the CBS boards, too- he makes up his mind based one what he thinks during one split-second decision, and then nothing will ever change that. There's been threads where he's been flat-out proven to be wrong with hard evidence referenced, but he still refuses to ever back off.

What sucks is that he's made his point 1,000 times over already, and EVERYBODY gets exactly how he feels about Ebron. But until we all start praising him and stroking his ego he's just going to keep hijacking each and every thread to remind us what a terrible pick he thought it was.

Humility is not something he's familiar with. He picked his new screen name here on the 'Hoop as (he claims) a joke, but the real joke is that it is completely spot-on...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Its not crazy at all. I have nothing personal against ebron, I think he will do well, its just a mistake to draft a TE that cant block tha high in the draft. Its a huge risk by the lions with a small chance of reward (ebron being worth a top ten pick). I couldnt make that argument for a CB or LB, they have much more value being drafted higher especially CB. I agree, anyone could flourish or bust as the tenth pick. I would much rather put my faith in a position that is deserving of that high of a pick. TE is not.

Imo, that's a pretty old-school opinion. TE is not the position it was 15 years ago, not by a long-shot. I'm not really sure how one can make the argument that LB is a more valuable position than TE?

 

[gvsulaker82]

Apparently if they are Richard Sherman within 5 games he wasn't worth the pick. I've noticed that with many posters on here/cbs over the years. Every rookie who isn't ROY/ProBowl immediately is a bust. Apparently giving players time to develop is frowned upon in Detroit.

Ive never said ebron is a bust, ever. Since 22 cents was referencing my post I can assume your comment is also directed toward me. In a more realistic world where the lions dont go 16-0 reside many posters that should be allowed to critique poor decisions and at the same time praise good decisions. Hello, this is exactly what many posters do. Drafting ebron at ten was a poor decision. He will be a good TE but regarding draft value it was a mistake. If the lions drafted your grandma you would be talking about how amazing she would be. You have no understanding of anything besides, hes a lion, therefore he will be the best player at his position.

Tl:dr. Ebron is not a bust, he is also not worth the tenth pick.