Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[tpaulus_2]

Now that they came out with some clear evidence of stuff you questioned about Ebron, you're countering it with " you can make film look however you want". Thats crazy man. Why even attempt to compare him to other rookies that have completely different roles on their teams than Ebron does? To set such high standards for this guy is crazy too.

You know what they all say- the film lies.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Wait a second- the expression is "the film DON"T lie."

My bad.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Imo, that's a pretty old-school opinion. TE is not the position it was 15 years ago, not by a long-shot. I'm not really sure how one can make the argument that LB is a more valuable position than TE?

Thats your opinion. While I would have a hard time being ok with a LB at ten, I will have a harder time being
Ok with a TE. Thats definitely a reach for a TE and a huge gamble by the lions organization. I would much rather see them gamble on a position of value (offensive or defensive line) than TE. Old school wins football games. Build the lines and win games. The lions built their d line and their defense is dominant. A TE is not going to make the difference that many, many other positions do. I think you just like to argue everything. I say prater is a great signing, you disagree. When IM positive about players you find somethin to argue, when I voice concerns you do as well. Yet you tell other posters they are drama queens. You crack me up.

 

[TwoCents22]

Wait, TPaul said Prater signing is horrible???

 

[Kreton]

Ive never said ebron is a bust, ever. Since 22 cents was referencing my post I can assume your comment is also directed toward me. In a more realistic world where the lions dont go 16-0 reside many posters that should be allowed to critique poor decisions and at the same time praise good decisions. Hello, this is exactly what many posters do. Drafting ebron at ten was a poor decision. He will be a good TE but regarding draft value it was a mistake. If the lions drafted your grandma you would be talking about how amazing she would be. You have no understanding of anything besides, hes a lion, therefore he will be the best player at his position.

Tl:dr. Ebron is not a bust, he is also not worth the tenth pick.

Oh no i was more referring to Mike and some others who shit all over every draft pick who's not a day one lock to be a probowler. I can't remember much of what you've said about draft picks being busts early in their careers.

 

[Kreton]

Ive never said ebron is a bust, ever. Since 22 cents was referencing my post I can assume your comment is also directed toward me. In a more realistic world where the lions dont go 16-0 reside many posters that should be allowed to critique poor decisions and at the same time praise good decisions. Hello, this is exactly what many posters do. Drafting ebron at ten was a poor decision. He will be a good TE but regarding draft value it was a mistake. If the lions drafted your grandma you would be talking about how amazing she would be. You have no understanding of anything besides, hes a lion, therefore he will be the best player at his position.

Tl:dr. Ebron is not a bust, he is also not worth the tenth pick.

ANd what 22 was saying I'm pretty sure is you dont know if it was a poor decision or worth the 10th pick or not. If Ebron is a contributor on this team for the next decade and helps the Lions win games, then it was a good pick.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Wait, TPaul said Prater signing is horrible???

No, he just told me to temper my expectations since I thought it was great.

If tpaul ever said a signing was horrible that the lions made I would have to assume someone hacked his account.

 

[gvsulaker82]

ANd what 22 was saying I'm pretty sure is you dont know if it was a poor decision or worth the 10th pick or not. If Ebron is a contributor on this team for the next decade and helps the Lions win games, then it was a good pick.

Well I do. I think the fact thats a huge gamble is enough for me. I dont like the lions using their top pick on a TE. Strategically it would make much more sense to gamble on a position worthy of that pick. If they were going to pick a TE that cant block they may as well have drafted a wr. Thanks for clarifying about who you were referring to. I feel like certain posters assume they know how I think even when Ive clearly documented my thought on ebron, that I think he will be good etc. i dont think he will be a bust.

 

[TwoCents22]

I will throw this out there: the one thing I dislike about Ebron is his cockiness. He's acting like we won the Superbowl each catch, and each missed opportunity he's smiling like the defense got off easy. When he dropped that pass at the goal line, he was still celebrating even though he clearly dropped it.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Thats your opinion. While I would have a hard time being ok with a LB at ten, I will have a harder time being Ok with a TE. Thats definitely a reach for a TE and a huge gamble by the lions organization. I would much rather see them gamble on a position of value (offensive or defensive line) than TE. Old school wins football games. Build the lines and win games. The lions built their d line and their defense is dominant. A TE is not going to make the difference that many, many other positions do. I think you just like to argue everything. I say prater is a great signing, you disagree. When IM positive about players you find somethin to argue, when I voice concerns you do as well. Yet you tell other posters they are drama queens. You crack me up.

Why? Based on what?

I'd rather see them go o-line or d-line, too, but that doesn't mean that Ebron was a bad pick simply because of the position he plays. That's basically nonsense, imo. We're talking about a starting position, not a kicker or punter or return specialist.

Some positions are definitely more valuable than others, but TE isn't so far down that chart that teams don't draft them in the 1st round. No different value-wise than a WR, imo.

Also, get your panties out of a bunch and quit being a little bitch and putting words in my mouth. I never said Prater was a bad signing. If that's what you took from me suggesting that you may want to temper your expectations based on that post you made, then you're just being arrogant and not actually bothering to understand what you're reading.

I think Prater is a big upgrade, and I said as much. I also said that his numbers aren't as good as your post was making them out to be, which is true and a fact. However, I didn't 100% agree with what you said, and now you're flying off the handle and acting like a little nancy because of it. Get over yourself man, if you can't handle your opinion being discused, then you probably shouldn't post, because that's kinda how this thing works. There's a few of you guys, yourself definitely included, who can't seem to grasp that it's ok if someone disagrees with you.

I wasn't being a dick, nor was I even disagreeing with your entire post. I simply pointed out that you were only going off his best numbers, which I felt would lead to an unattainable standard for him based on where his career numbers are. I think you need to settle the fuck down and remember that this is a discussion board- posts are meant to be discussed.

 

[jdwills126]

I don't care how fast Ebron is, it's obvious he has an issue and either Stafford and or the coaching staff see a problem. He is not being integrated into the offense as most high picks would be.

This time last season we saw an undrafted rookie TE start being integrated into the red zone package and the Lions do not seem to be doing that with Ebron. And that is really a head scratcher to me. The last time I saw the Lions do this it was with Mike Williams....fans wanted to see him and coaching staff did not use him much. Until they got fed up and Lion fans saw he was a train wreck. Thats not to say Ebron is a train wreck but I have to believe he is not picking up the offense, not reading the right routes or something.

Really where he was drafted is a mot point at this time it's over and done with if he was #10 or 20 he is a Lion TE. The bigger problem is why isn't he more involved with the offense?

 

[Kreton]

Well I do. I think the fact thats a huge gamble is enough for me. I dont like the lions using their top pick on a TE. Strategically it would make much more sense to gamble on a position worthy of that pick. If they were going to pick a TE that cant block they may as well have drafted a wr. Thanks for clarifying about who you were referring to. I feel like certain posters assume they know how I think even when Ive clearly documented my thought on ebron, that I think he will be good etc. i dont think he will be a bust.

If Ebron is a good player, then Ebron was a good pick. With only a handful of first and second round picks from any draft class making a real impact over a decade, i dont care what their position is, if a player helps your team for a long time he was a good pick. Round/Position doesn't matter. Production does. A 1st rd CB who's out of the league in 2 years is not more valuable than a TE who starts for your team for 8-10.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Coming from the guy who dismisses the actual game tape when it disproves him lol. I clearly said something to the effect of "watching the 2 you can tell Ebron is faster on the field". Please don't twist my words to make it seem as if I'm incinuating I have coaches tape and break down every player in the league. Moving on...

What did I dismiss? I will repeat for all of you who can't seem to grasp this fact. ANY PLAYER RUNNING UP THE SEAM IS GOING TO DRAW COVERAGE. It could be Ebron, it could be Tate, it could be Fuller, it could be Pettigrew, it could be Fauria, it could be Broyles. So tell me what I'm dismissing?

I haven't dismissed anything -- I even stated, IF Stafford saw him, then the ball should have been thrown. Freezing a frame from the game film and saying the QB missed his chance could be done in every game. Teams blow coverages all the time. Guys are open down field and a QB will tuck it and run. We have no idea from a single frame what the QBs progressions were on the play. We can make assumptions. The only people who know though play for or coach the Lions.

As far as saying one guy is faster than another by watching them on TV at different times is ridiculous, unless it is a huge discrepancy. Saying you can tell Ebron is faster is nothing more than a guess on your part.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Oh no i was more referring to Mike and some others who shit all over every draft pick who's not a day one lock to be a probowler

What picks have I shit on? The only picks I've shit on, I've done so since the day they were drafted. So far, my track record is pretty good. About the only pick I wasn't really excited about in the round was Stafford, as I wasn't convinced he was worthy of the #1 pick. I'm a fan of his now though. I thought the safer pick was the can't miss LB (who was a bust) or the can't miss OL (who was a bust).

I didn't like the Pettigrew pick, but I understood it as it gave their rookie QB a safety valve to throw to, while getting acclimated to the NFL game. We had a whole at TE and we filled it.

Didn't like trading away anything to get a guy coming off a major concussion and I let it be known. I was wrong for about a season and 4 games. Now he has been retired longer than he played in the NFL.

Hated the Titus Young pick. Said from the get go -- If they went with a WR -- I felt Torrey Smith was a better option as a deep threat. He was bigger and faster than Young, and came without the red flags.

The one pick I hated more than the Ebron pick. Ryan Broyles. Once again -- I voiced my opinion on it immediately (shocker). I was calling for Lavonte David, as we had a hole at OLB, and getting to watch Nebraska quite a bit since joining the big 10 -- the guy was all over the field on every play. I think he'd fit nicely on a defense with Levy and Tulloch right now.

I liked the Reiff pick. I liked the Fairley pick. I wasn't a fan of the Ansah pick and wanted us to solidy our OL, but Ansah has helped solidify our run defense and should continue to get better -- So I was wrong on that pick.

I have no issues coming on here if I am wrong about something and posted I was wrong. I did so about Levy. I was dead wrong on the guy. No one saw his playing jumping to the level it has. He looks like a completely different player the last year and 5 games.

The Ebron pick though is a head scratcher for me. Only way it makes any sense is if the Lions are planning to cut ties with Calvin Johnson in the next year or two, as his cap hits sky rocket to 20 and 24 million or something like that. If they keep Calvin and Tate the duration of Ebron's rookie deal -- he won't even get a fair shake to be a game changing player, as his targets will be severely limited.

 

[Kreton]

The Ebron pick though is a head scratcher for me. Only way it makes any sense is if the Lions are planning to cut ties with Calvin Johnson in the next year or two, as his cap hits sky rocket to 20 and 24 million or something like that. If they keep Calvin and Tate the duration of Ebron's rookie deal -- he won't even get a fair shake to be a game changing player, as his targets will be severely limited

There is a difference between NFL games and fantasy football. I am not sure how to keep explaining things to you.

 

[Kreton]

What did I dismiss? I will repeat for all of you who can't seem to grasp this fact. ANY PLAYER RUNNING UP THE SEAM IS GOING TO DRAW COVERAGE. It could be Ebron, it could be Tate, it could be Fuller, it could be Pettigrew, it could be Fauria, it could be Broyles. So tell me what I'm dismissing?

I haven't dismissed anything -- I even stated, IF Stafford saw him, then the ball should have been thrown. Freezing a frame from the game film and saying the QB missed his chance could be done in every game. Teams blow coverages all the time. Guys are open down field and a QB will tuck it and run. We have no idea from a single frame what the QBs progressions were on the play. We can make assumptions. The only people who know though play for or coach the Lions.

As far as saying one guy is faster than another by watching them on TV at different times is ridiculous, unless it is a huge discrepancy. Saying you can tell Ebron is faster is nothing more than a guess on your part.

It is the job of the QB to get the ball to an open receiver in a timely manner. Good QB's see that open guy and get him the ball. They dont look at a wide open WR, then go look at Tate, then Ross, then Fuller, than a HB, then back to the open guy to see if he is still wide open. (except im sure hailmary plays and 3rd and long and such)

 

[TwoCents22]

What did I dismiss? I will repeat for all of you who can't seem to grasp this fact. ANY PLAYER RUNNING UP THE SEAM IS GOING TO DRAW COVERAGE.

As far as saying one guy is faster than another by watching them on TV at different times is ridiculous, unless it is a huge discrepancy. Saying you can tell Ebron is faster is nothing more than a guess on your part.

So is saying Ebron doesn't draw a certain type of coverage, or saying other players would draw that same attention. Unless you have better and more film than I do.

 

[lionstop1]

Trustme,

All you're doing is making up all these lofty standards that you think Ebron should meet because you didnt like the pick and if he doesnt meet those standards, you will continue to say he wasnt worth the pick. How in the hell would you even know what player is worthy of what pick when you dont even work in the NFL? People kill me with that. None of us know crap about Ebron as a person or a player.

Why is it so hard to believe that at some point during a game, a defense will react to what he does and that he can draw coverage? I dont get that.

 

[TwoCents22]

That's why you can't debate with him. Stats are discarded because Ebron isn't them, opinions are "nothing more than a guess" and actual film doesn't mean anything because "any team could freeze frame plays to show open players"

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Man still on this train. I'd venture out to make a bet, had the Lions chosen CB Justin Gilbert and seeing his play to date for the Browns, there'd be far less bitching about him, if he were a Lion, than what we're seeing here from the Ebron pick. Gilbert has been on the bench a lot or just hasn't performed well at all so far.


BTW, Dr.Evil wanted Domer OT, Zach Martin. Now, how many would have been bitching about that pick seeing all the trouble we're having at RT ? Martin is starting for Dallas at RG.


All rookies take time to develop, regardless of who they are, even when the very few that have break-out 1st years can regress some in their 2nd year (look at Warford in a new system). Just wait for the 3 year time period to pass before coming to a conclusion on what you might have in a prospect. Shit, glad we have Levy and it took him 5 years before his true breakout year.