Thoughts on Eric Ebron.........

[TrustMeIamRight]

Even then I don't love it. We'll still need a #1 WR. I could at least understand the thought process though.

Tate showed he could fill that role in Seattle and has looked really good in the last two games with CJ being injured. I'd think if we found someone to team with Tate at WR -- it'd open up looks for Ebron.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

you need to go read LionsTop1 thread. he is breaking down game film and by the looks of his assessment so far, Fuller just might be that one to take over the #1 spot in the future, should something happen to CJ.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I actually think he'll be a good TE. My issue was never talent. My issue was position. I just don't agree with a TE with a top 10 pick.

You either, hey? GVSU said the same thing.

Just my opinion, but I can't even begin to wrap my head around that logic. We're not talking about TEs from 15-20 years ago who were mostly an extra blocker that catches a pass or two per game. Today's TEs are every bit as involved and valuable as a WR, and nobody has any issues with selecting one of those in the top ten...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Today's TEs are every bit as involved and valuable as a WR, and nobody has any issues with selecting one of those in the top ten...

Non-sense. If they are every bit as valuable and involved. How is it that out of the 30 guys with 1000 yards receiving last year, exactly one was a TE. Jimmy Graham. Seems if they were every bit involved, you would be seeing more than just Graham.

I'm trying to remember the exact number, but I believe, since Pettigrew was drafted. Only two teams in the NFL have spent a 1st round pick on a TE. The Lions and Bengals. I'm not 100% on this, so don't get bent out of shape if I'm not, but don't have time to look it up right now.

If TE's were as valuable and involved -- we'd be seeing a lot more of them drafted in the 1st round. Don't you think?

 

[lionstop1]

Man, we're talking about a unique situation here where Ebron just happened to be an hybrid TE that entered a league that those types are coveted because of how they upgrade an offense. The Lions were in the market for an offensive player of this caliber for many reasons. Surely they saw something more than just an thet to invest in.

 

[gandydancer]

Non-sense. If they are every bit as valuable and involved. How is it that out of the 30 guys with 1000 yards receiving last year, exactly one was a TE. Jimmy Graham. Seems if they were every bit involved, you would be seeing more than just Graham.

I'm trying to remember the exact number, but I believe, since Pettigrew was drafted. Only two teams in the NFL have spent a 1st round pick on a TE. The Lions and Bengals. I'm not 100% on this, so don't get bent out of shape if I'm not, but don't have time to look it up right now.

If TE's were as valuable and involved -- we'd be seeing a lot more of them drafted in the 1st round. Don't you think?

Gotta get past draft position and certain stat number. Easy to say 1000 yards and one guy. Looks good for debate sake.

I saw with my one four eyes how Cameron and Gordon / Jackson with Ertz and Celek complimented each other great for mismatches. just to name two options. I am not concerned with whether Cameron got 1000 yards. He was a mismatch nightmare with a great WR along side.

 

[gandydancer]

Can you say what Ebron's stats will be his 3rd or 4th in league?

 

[TwoCents22]

Non-sense. If they are every bit as valuable and involved. How is it that out of the 30 guys with 1000 yards receiving last year, exactly one was a TE. Jimmy Graham. Seems if they were every bit involved, you would be seeing more than just Graham.

I'm trying to remember the exact number, but I believe, since Pettigrew was drafted. Only two teams in the NFL have spent a 1st round pick on a TE. The Lions and Bengals. I'm not 100% on this, so don't get bent out of shape if I'm not, but don't have time to look it up right now.

If TE's were as valuable and involved -- we'd be seeing a lot more of them drafted in the 1st round. Don't you think?

Last year there were 12 TEs in the top 40 in receiving TDs. This year, so far, there are 9 TEs in the top 20 in receiving TDs. I'm betting those numbers are on an upswing from say 10 years ago.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Last year there were 12 TEs in the top 40 in receiving TDs. This year, so far, there are 9 TEs in the top 20 in receiving TDs. I'm betting those numbers are on an upswing from say 10 years ago.

This I can absolutely agree with. It goes right along with the big WR's being at the top of the TD category. In the red zone, where space is limited as defenses don't have to worry about deep routes. Size advantages are great to have.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I saw with my one four eyes how Cameron and Gordon / Jackson with Ertz and Celek complimented each other great for mismatches. just to name two options. I am not concerned with whether Cameron got 1000 yards. He was a mismatch nightmare with a great WR along side.

If you are spending a top 10 pick -- they shouldn't need another player to create a mismatch for them. Cameron was a 4th round pick. Celek was a 5th round pick. Ertz was a 2nd round pick.

You can get high quality TE's outside the 1st round, because teams rarely spend 1st round picks on the position, unless it is the Bengals and Lions, who have both spent two 1st round picks on TE's in the past 6 years.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Can you say what Ebron's stats will be his 3rd or 4th in league?

I think it totally depends on if the Lions still have Calvin Johnson or not. I'm assuming Tate will still be here for sure. If they have CJ and Tate still. I'm guessing about 5-600 yards if he plays all 16 games.
At best -- he will be 3rd on the team in targets after Johnson and Tate. You can only do so much if you only have 50-75 passes thrown your way.

To put up top 10 TE numbers -- he'd have to get 100+ balls thrown his way or basically catch every ball thrown to him if he is in the 50-75 range, which isn't realistic for anyone.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

All I'm saying is -- there is only so many targets to go around on the Lions offense. I agree Cameron put up great numbers for Cleveland last year. He had 117 targets, which is a normal number for a #2 target. Problem is -- Ebron isn't going to be a #2 target with Calvin or Tate unless one of them is hurt and he steps up his game.

We already had a TE to run short routes. We already had a TE for the red zone. He is going to be battling with all of them for looks as well, when everyone is healthy.

Let me ask this -- how many targets do you believe Ebron will get once he has settled in, in Detroit?

 

[Thruthefog]

Enough with the targets. The targets are skewed because Stafford can't seem to read a defense for shit.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Stafford has averaged 675 passing attempts over the last 3 seasons. There's plenty of balls to go around if that's your primary concern. No reason to think he can't/won't get 100+ targets over the course of a full season once he's acclimated to the offense and up to NFL speed.

Probably won't happen this year, but then again he's a rookie and all that- they generally don't hit the ground running in the NFL...

 

[tpaulus_2]

So let's take 675 and split that among all the WRs.

We'll give Megatron 178 targets (his average for the last 3 years combined), leaving us with 497.

Let's give Golden Tate the 145 targets. Bush 100. Bell 75.

That's 177 targets remaining. If Ebron lay claim to half of those targets he's at 89. Is it that hard to imagine him playing well enough next year or the year after to steal 10-20 targets away from the rest of the receiving collective over the course of a season?

I think your heralded "100" targets is far more attainable than you think it is...

 

[tpaulus_2]

All I'm saying is -- there is only so many targets to go around on the Lions offense. I agree Cameron put up great numbers for Cleveland last year. He had 117 targets, which is a normal number for a #2 target. Problem is -- Ebron isn't going to be a #2 target with Calvin or Tate unless one of them is hurt and he steps up his game.

We already had a TE to run short routes. We already had a TE for the red zone. He is going to be battling with all of them for looks as well, when everyone is healthy.

Let me ask this -- how many targets do you believe Ebron will get once he has settled in, in Detroit?

115 or so in 2016. 'Bout 90 next season.

 

[gandydancer]

If you are spending a top 10 pick -- they shouldn't need another player to create a mismatch for them. Cameron was a 4th round pick. Celek was a 5th round pick. Ertz was a 2nd round pick.

You can get high quality TE's outside the 1st round, because teams rarely spend 1st round picks on the position, unless it is the Bengals and Lions, who have both spent two 1st round picks on TE's in the past 6 years.

I will say this again unless you want to read the last post one more time. Get past what round it was. I hated it also, the fricking Lions did it. Move forward...

Now if you want to reply to my post that the TE and WR combo part feel free. I cannot help if that he was 10th and Fauria was UDFA. I can see that going forward and not hampering on May 2014 this may or may not work out.

Another thing is the draft and positions ebb and flow. Granted TE is not a first round pick normally. Will it become a new demand? You would of called me a idiot ten years ago had said there will be a day a RB does not go in first round. Sometimes we have to get past history.

 

[gandydancer]

This I can absolutely agree with. It goes right along with the big WR's being at the top of the TD category. In the red zone, where space is limited as defenses don't have to worry about deep routes. Size advantages are great to have.

You do realize that TE assisted his said team to prolly get to red zone. Let me guess outside of Jimmy all TE are just a Fauria. A red zone threat.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You do realize that TE assisted his said team to prolly get to red zone. Let me guess outside of Jimmy all TE are just a Fauria. A red zone threat.

I'm not saying that at all. I just mentioned Graham, because he was the only TE to get to the 1000 yard mark last year and was used as a #1 target. It was in response to TP's posts about TE being just as valuable as a WR.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So let's take 675 and split that among all the WRs.

We'll give Megatron 178 targets (his average for the last 3 years combined), leaving us with 497.

Let's give GOLDEN TATE the 145 targets. Bush 100. Bell 75.

That's 177 targets remaining. If Ebron lay claim to half of those targets he's at 89. Is it that hard to imagine him playing well enough next year or the year after to steal 10-20 targets away from the rest of the receiving collective over the course of a season?

I think your heralded "100" targets is far more attainable than you think it is...

Why exactly is "100" in quotes? Just curious.

I guess we shall see. Everyone knows I have no problem eating crow if I'm wrong. If Ebron starts getting 100+ targets with Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate on the team -- I will come on here and post I was dead wrong.

Denver was able to do it last year with 3 guys with 100 targets. So it is possible. I would love to be wrong, as it means Ebron is playing well.