This is why so many people are against fighting in hockey

[juliansteed]

If they want to keep fighting in the game then they have to get rid of this type of nonsense. The "anything goes" culture is becoming a bit too extreme. Couldn't find the video but saw this on the news. I'm sure 1 will start floating around soon enough.

Parents of son 'brutally beaten' playing hockey want charges - British Columbia - CBC News

A 16 year old midget player deserves to be hospitalized because he snowed the other teams goalie?
He doesn't even fight back but gets suspended for 2 games and the other guy only gets 4. The only reason why he got more games is because it was his 2nd fight of the season. Otherwise it appears they would have received the same suspension. Unbelievable!

 

[mattola]

im actually swaying on the ban fighting side. Im tired of it all. fighting today does not have the same meaning as fighting in the 90s and anything before. its just so staged... this is insane

 

[dash]

It will take some time (likely another 12-15 years), but fighting will eventually be eliminated from the NHL. I honestly believe that.

 

[mattola]

It will take some time (likely another 12-15 years or when someone Dies and they realize they were too late), but fighting will eventually be eliminated from the NHL. I honestly believe that.

hope you dont mind if I corrected an error

 

[juliansteed]

hope you dont mind if I corrected an error

Well put by both of you. I don't mind fair fights. But it's hard to get rid of the other stuff and still allow the fair fights. IMO opinion that is what the instigator rule is designed to help do, along with 3rd man in rule. But it doesn't seem to be enough, especially when it isn't properly enforced a lot of the time.

 

[SEC Official]

im actually swaying on the ban fighting side. Im tired of it all. fighting today does not have the same meaning as fighting in the 90s and anything before. its just so staged... this is insane

Back in the 80's and 90's ... people didn't try to kill each other like they do these days. And it is happening at a younger and younger age... kids don't know respect anymore.

 

[puckhead]

if it makes you feel better, the kid with the concussion had his suspension rescinded.

I will take a contrary view here-
the kid deserved a shot for being a complete dickhead
winning 7-2 late in the game and you pull shit like that? I'd fight you as well.
at the very least, you'd get a solid slash across the ankle and a gloved punch, and see where it goes from there.

other areas of blame
- referees for letting the game get out of hand. though the refs are probably teenagers themselves.
- his teammate (#5) for standing by and watching him get pummelled
- the kid himself for not fighting back, or even protecting himself. wtf?
- the dad for not teaching him to protect himself and/or spawning a kid too stupid to think to get his hands up

~Don Cherry hat on~
it is the ability of the players to kick the shit out of assholes that keep the assholes from taking over
example - I'm guessing that guy has not snowed a goalie since, nor will again.
he now knows that he does not get immunity for acting like a dick. that's an important lesson (in hockey and in life).

 

[juliansteed]

Back in the 80's and 90's ... people didn't try to kill each other like they do these days. And it is happening at a younger and younger age... kids don't know respect anymore.

Yup, and it comes from watching the pros. As much as I think this kid deserves a stiffer punishment and hesitate to defend him, I don't think it would be fair to convict him of assault (even if he is a minor and won't stay on his record). If grown men in their late 20s/early 30s or even 19 year old NHL draft picks and Team Canada World Junior captains can do stuff just as bad, and not be convicted of assault charges then I don't think it would be fair to make this kid the first. The league should definitely come down way harder on him though and I certainly can't blame the other kid's parents for trying. We live in a world where everyone is super sensitive about teens call other other teens names. Police will investigate verbal bullying (but only if and after the recipient commits suicide ), but this violent behavior is "just kids being kids" and "part of the game".

 

[juliansteed]

if it makes you feel better, the kid with the concussion had his suspension rescinded.

I will take a contrary view here-
the kid deserved a shot for being a complete dickhead
winning 7-2 late in the game and you pull shit like that? I'd fight you as well.
at the very least, you'd get a solid slash across the ankle and a gloved punch, and see where it goes from there.

I don't disagree but I think this was a bit extreme. I think the initial cross-check would have been sufficient followed by offsetting minors to both players.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Meh...I hate staged fighting and wouldn't even mind if fighting went completely out of the game (though the fights between good players like Iggy v. Vinny or Foote V. Shanny are just awesome moments).

That being said this kid is either:

- too dumb to realize that what he did was inflammatory. He needed a lesson. Or,

- he knew what he was doing and the reaction it might incite. He needed a lesson.

Act like an asshole and you inherit all the risks that come with it. It seems to me that 16 isn't too bad an age to learn that.

Don't get me going about fights after clean hits and just general thuggery but if you go looking for trouble you shouldn't say much when you find it.

 

[Slimpikins]

I think that the kid beating a player on the ice deserves to be suspended much longer. He's a chicken shit for hitting a guy while down. However I do agree that a player has the responsibility to at least try to protect himself. This does not excuse the guy continuing to swing while he's down but you have to be cognisant enough to know that your actions are going to escalate the situation and then take actions to protect yourself.

I do not think that this instance means that fighting needs to be taken out of the game. If the real reason people want fighting out of the game is concussions/injury then they would instead work to get hitting banned. Hitting causes many more concussions and more injuries than fighting.

 

[juliansteed]

Meh...I hate staged fighting and wouldn't even mind if fighting went completely out of the game (though the fights between good players like Iggy v. Vinny or Foote V. Shanny are just awesome moments).

That being said this kid is either:

- too dumb to realize that what he did was inflammatory. He needed a lesson. Or,

- he knew what he was doing and the reaction it might incite. He needed a lesson.

Act like an asshole and you inherit all the risks that come with it. It seems to me that 16 isn't too bad an age to learn that.

Don't get me going about fights after clean hits and just general thuggery but if you go looking for trouble you shouldn't say much when you find it.

So if we're at a bar and you cut in front of me in line (a dick move) does that give me the right to sucker punch you and would you deserve it?

 

[KennyBanyeah]

So if we're at a bar and you cut in front of me in line (a dick move) does that give me the right to sucker punch you and would you deserve it?

If I do it in a way that flaunts it in front of you I should be expecting it, that's for sure.

If I rub it in your face (7-2 game) and intentionally cut in front of you (snow spray) I would be an idiot to not be wary because I don't know what you're capable of. I possess a decent dose of common sense and just wouldn't do that.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I think that the kid beating a player on the ice deserves to be suspended much longer. He's a chicken shit for hitting a guy while down. However I do agree that a player has the responsibility to at least try to protect himself. This does not excuse the guy continuing to swing while he's down but you have to be cognisant enough to know that your actions are going to escalate the situation and then take actions to protect yourself.

I do not think that this instance means that fighting needs to be taken out of the game. If the real reason people want fighting out of the game is concussions/injury then they would instead work to get hitting banned. Hitting causes many more concussions and more injuries than fighting.

 

[juliansteed]

If I do it in a way that flaunts it in front of you I should be expecting it, that's for sure.

If I rub it in your face (7-2 game) and intentionally cut in front of you (snow spray) I would be an idiot to not be wary because I don't know what you're capable of. I possess a decent dose of common sense and just wouldn't do that.

I don't entirely disagree that you would deserve it. But what I can tell you is that if it played out that way, I'd come across as the lunatic to anyone that witnessed the situation and would get banned and possibly have charges laid against me, while very few people would say that you deserved it.

 

[Slimpikins]

So if we're at a bar and you cut in front of me in line (a dick move) does that give me the right to sucker punch you and would you deserve it?

No because in society fighting is not normally expected (or it is at least MUCH less common). It is expected in hockey, and I would submit, especially in that particular situation.

That is not a very good example.

 

[juliansteed]

No because in society fighting is not normally expected (or it is at least MUCH less common). It is expected in hockey, and I would submit, especially in that particular situation.

That is not a very good example.

Actually you pretty much just proved my point for me.

In this league fighting is not acceptable behavior either. Any fight results in a 2 game suspension for 1st time offenders.

I wish I could say that I rarely see fights at bars too.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I don't entirely disagree that you would deserve it. But what I can tell you is that if it played out that way, I'd come across as the lunatic to anyone that witnessed the situation and would get banned and possibly have charges laid against me, while very few people would say that you deserved it.

Agreed but as Slim pointed out, a hockey rink is inherently more violent than a lineup into a bar.

Also I agree that anyone who willingly inflicts injuries should be punished severely but you just shouldn't go asking for it.

 

[Slimpikins]

Actually you pretty much just proved my point for me.

In this league fighting is not acceptable behavior either. Any fight results in a 2 game suspension for 1st time offenders.

I do not see that I proved anything for you. He is still playing a hockey game where fighting occurs at a much higher rate than most other places in society. He has willingly agreed to play this hockey game fully knowing the risks.

He then proceed to undertake a course of action that has a very high probability of garnering a physical reaction. I find it intellectually dishonest to then hide behind the fighting is illegal rule. It's against the rules to board someone too. Should players not worry about turning their backs on the play when someone is lining them up?

Again, none of this is an excuse for the actions of the guy beating on him after he goes down. I just think that he was putting himself in a bad situation by not defending himself.

 

[juliansteed]

The old west was a pretty violent environment too but I don't think that can justify blowing someone's head off for cheating at a card game. Just because it might happen frequently doesn't make it right. Yes you should be prepared for it, but it doesn't justify the other guy's actions.

Seriously, lets think about this for a moment. I get that snowing the goalie was a dick move. I do. But maybe I'm out of touch and don't realize just how much of an epidemic snowing the goalie has become in hockey. Does it really justify that kind of violence? Especially in a league of 16 year olds where fighting of any kind is not tolerated?