The Warriors loss will be the best thing that happened to them all year...

[hockey878]

The only rookie 2nd round pick I know of who had a legit impact on a "championship caliber" team was Boobie Gibson. And "championship caliber" is up for debate surrounding that cavs team.

I'm not saying McCaw can't or won't, have an impact but wiggy is actually right. Very few rookie 2nd round picks have any positive impact come playoff time and even fewer do as it gets closer to Conference/NBA finals.

I'd hardly say that Simmons and Powell were positive contributors in the playoffs last year. Simmons played 8 mpg in only three games (garbage time if I had to guess). And Powell, while he got more tick, was hardly what one would call a "positive contributor" throughout the playoffs.

Again, not saying McCaw can't be a guy to make a difference. Simply that Wiggy is right, history shows the odds are low. But then, history also showed the odds of the Cavs coming back down 3-1 in the finals was low.... so screw history, right?

 

[CitySushi]

The only rookie 2nd round pick I know of who had a legit impact on a "championship caliber" team was Boobie Gibson. And "championship caliber" is up for debate surrounding that cavs team.

I'm not saying McCaw can't or won't, have an impact but wiggy is actually right. Very few rookie 2nd round picks have any positive impact come playoff time and even fewer do as it gets closer to Conference/NBA finals.

I'd hardly say that Simmons and Powell were positive contributors in the playoffs last year. Simmons played 8 mpg in only three games (garbage time if I had to guess). And Powell, while he got more tick, was hardly what one would call a "positive contributor" throughout the playoffs.

Again, not saying McCaw can't be a guy to make a difference. Simply that Wiggy is right, history shows the odds are low. But then, history also showed the odds of the Cavs coming back down 3-1 in the finals was low.... so screw history, right?

No one was saying McCaw was going to be a player in the playoffs. But he also said he couldn't be a rotational guy to produce during the regular season was included in his assessment. Playoff rotations are often shortened and you'll only see 8 or 9 guys play most games. Nobody would expect McCaw to be in the rotation in the playoffs.

 

[hockey878]

No one was saying McCaw was going to be a player in the playoffs. But he also said he couldn't be a rotational guy to produce during the regular season was included in his assessment. Playoff rotations are often shortened and you'll only see 8 or 9 guys play most games. Nobody would expect McCaw to be in the rotation in the playoffs.

I guess it was my understanding that Wiggy was referring primarily to playoff production. My apologies if I am incorrect.

 

[CitySushi]

I guess it was my understanding that Wiggy was referring primarily to playoff production. My apologies if I am incorrect.

No you're not mistaken. Wiggy's statement was more of a blanket statement, so you can take it how you will. But he did say that expecting him to contribute regularly (which would include the regular season) simply because he was a 2nd round pick was delusional.

 

[hockey878]

No you're not mistaken. Wiggy's statement was more of a blanket statement, so you can take it how you will. But he did say that expecting him to contribute regularly (which would include the regular season) simply because he was a 2nd round pick was delusional.

Regular season I'm sure he can contribute, I'd have my doubts more about the latter stages of the playoffs. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!

 

[CitySushi]

Regular season I'm sure he can contribute, I'd have my doubts more about the latter stages of the playoffs. Guess we'll just have to wait and see!

And that's where this whole thing blew up from. No one thinks McCaw is going to play in the playoffs, myself included. I think it started where Tlance just said he wanted to see McCaw play and get some playing time because he could help the team. And Wiggy said basically 2nd round picks never contribute. Had nothing to do with playoffs or anything of that nature. Just wanted to see him get some court time because he could help the team.

 

[WiggyRuss]

And that's where this whole thing blew up from. No one thinks McCaw is going to play in the playoffs, myself included. I think it started where Tlance just said he wanted to see McCaw play and get some playing time because he could help the team. And Wiggy said basically 2nd round picks never contribute. Had nothing to do with playoffs or anything of that nature. Just wanted to see him get some court time because he could help the team.

exactly- 2nd round picks- over the last 20 years in the NBA have rarely contributed on teams that are championship contenders....barely ever...some exceptions - like Manu who actually WAS a pro before he came over at a more established age- and a guy like Paul Milsap who went on to be a multi time all star averaged 7-5....but overall its extremely extremely rare and is the equivalent. The odds are clearly stacked highly highly highly highly highly against it.

i guess we shall see who is right at the end of the year.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The only rookie 2nd round pick I know of who had a legit impact on a "championship caliber" team was Boobie Gibson. And "championship caliber" is up for debate surrounding that cavs team.

I'm not saying McCaw can't or won't, have an impact but wiggy is actually right. Very few rookie 2nd round picks have any positive impact come playoff time and even fewer do as it gets closer to Conference/NBA finals.

I'd hardly say that Simmons and Powell were positive contributors in the playoffs last year. Simmons played 8 mpg in only three games (garbage time if I had to guess). And Powell, while he got more tick, was hardly what one would call a "positive contributor" throughout the playoffs.

Again, not saying McCaw can't be a guy to make a difference. Simply that Wiggy is right, history shows the odds are low. But then, history also showed the odds of the Cavs coming back down 3-1 in the finals was low.... so screw history, right?

hey---- that was a great call.....cant believe i overlooked that one......boobie gibson...he was amazing and a huge help in those conference finals---- i think that just goes to show you how freaking good LeBron was that year- that a 2nd rounder like boobie gibson , and guys like zydrunas ilguaskas, and company were on an actual nba team that made the ACTUAL nba finals.

great call on boobie gibson though.

 

[Kold]

Not to jump in on this, but Norris Cole was a 2nd rd pick, and a somewhat key piece in those Miami runs. He was better than Chalmers imo...

 

[The Q]

Not to jump in on this, but Norris Cole was a 2nd rd pick, and a somewhat key piece in those Miami runs. He was better than Chalmers imo...

Almost positive Cole was a late first.

Norris Cole

First round in 2011.

 

[Kold]

Almost positive Cole was a late first.

Norris Cole

First round in 2011.

Ahh, my mistake

 

[The Q]

hey---- that was a great call.....cant believe i overlooked that one......boobie gibson...he was amazing and a huge help in those conference finals---- i think that just goes to show you how freaking good LeBron was that year- that a 2nd rounder like boobie gibson , and guys like zydrunas ilguaskas, and company were on an actual nba team that made the ACTUAL nba finals.

great call on boobie gibson though.

How dare you forget all time UConn great Donyell Marshall.

 

[tlance]

exactly- 2nd round picks- over the last 20 years in the NBA have rarely contributed on teams that are championship contenders....barely ever...some exceptions - like Manu who actually WAS a pro before he came over at a more established age- and a guy like Paul Milsap who went on to be a multi time all star averaged 7-5....but overall its extremely extremely rare and is the equivalent. The odds are clearly stacked highly highly highly highly highly against it.

i guess we shall see who is right at the end of the year.

Here is the thing.

Nobody is arguing any of that.

You jumped all over my shit because I said I thought McCaw could have provided defensive energy and that I had hoped to see him a bit earlier. Considering Kerr clearly stated that McCaw would be part of the regular rotation, it was not an unreasonable comment.

But, you called me delusional because "2nd round picks never produce."

So while you are right that 2nd rounders rarely are rotation guys on good teams, you were very wrong to call my post delusional.

 

[The Q]

Here is the thing.

Nobody is arguing any of that.

You jumped all over my shit because I said I thought McCaw could have provided defensive energy and that I had hoped to see him a bit earlier. Considering Kerr clearly stated that McCaw would be part of the regular rotation, it was not an unreasonable comment.

But, you called me delusional because "2nd round picks never produce."

So while you are right that 2nd rounders rarely are rotation guys on good teams, you were very wrong to call my post delusional.

I had McCaw graded as an easy first rounder.

If the Celtics had taken him at 16 I would've been ok with it.

 

[CitySushi]

I had McCaw graded as an easy first rounder.

If the Celtics had taken him at 16 I would've been ok with it.

Were there any other second round players you had a first round grade on? Just curious as I usually don't follow many players until around the draft.

 

[CitySushi]

How dare you forget all time UConn great Donyell Marshall.

As a Warrior fan...don't get me started on Donyell Marshall.

 

[The Q]

As a Warrior fan...don't get me started on Donyell Marshall.

Ugh, I know. Donyell was so disappointing in pro ball.

That holdout was the worst thing for him.

 

[The Q]

Were there any other second round players you had a first round grade on? Just curious as I usually don't follow many players until around the draft.

Onuaku (GREAT metrics, especially defensive)
Zhou Qi (admitted stash guy, but one of the better stash options out there IMO)
Zubac (see Qi, Zhou)
Deyonta Davis (raw, but man is there a lot to work with).
======================================
Diallo (bubble first rounder for me. I could've seen it for upside though)

Not a first round grade, but I thought Isaiah Cousins would be a nice 2nd round pick. I still think he will be.

Also, I had an UDFA grade on Daniel Hamilton.

Mediocre ball handling and shooting skills while being one of the worst athletes at his position in the draft? Totally undraftable.

Another guy I was rooting for was Jameel Warney. Not a first rounder. But some of the best fundamental post skills I've seen in a while. Guy knew how to move on the block, get good positioning, use his body to get the ball. Things NBA players havne't really done since maybe the 80s. He'll be a coach for a very long time just with that post knowledge.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I was expecting to see a bit more of MCCaw early. He is no big, but he is really long and energetic. I think he can definitely help contribute some perimeter defense in the second unit. Livingston and aight also played poorly last night.

i stand by my comment---- i think its delusional for you to think "expecting to see him a bit more McCaw early" and "he can definitely contribute some perimeter defense in the second unit"----

thats what i am saying- i dont thin kyo uare gonna see much of McCaw at all- certainly not as someone that is a main contributor in the 2nd unit....as i said- it happens on a level - a handful of times every couple decades- that i think to expect that is delusonal.

unless you just mean playing like 40 games and playing like 8-10 minutes a night- mostly on back to backs, etc....i think that is PERFECTLY reasonable. What draymond did as a rookie 13 minutes a night and 3 and 3 seems WAAAAAAAAAAY too much to "expect".

 

[CitySushi]

Onuaku (GREAT metrics, especially defensive)
Zhou Qi (admitted stash guy, but one of the better stash options out there IMO)
Zubac (see Qi, Zhou)
Deyonta Davis (raw, but man is there a lot to work with).
======================================
Diallo (bubble first rounder for me. I could've seen it for upside though)

Not a first round grade, but I thought Isaiah Cousins would be a nice 2nd round pick. I still think he will be.

Also, I had an UDFA grade on Daniel Hamilton.

Mediocre ball handling and shooting skills while being one of the worst athletes at his position in the draft? Totally undraftable.

Another guy I was rooting for was Jameel Warney. Not a first rounder. But some of the best fundamental post skills I've seen in a while. Guy knew how to move on the block, get good positioning, use his body to get the ball. Things NBA players havne't really done since maybe the 80s. He'll be a coach for a very long time just with that post knowledge.

What did you think of Diamond Stone. I was kind of surprised he dropped that far. I get that his game isn't typical for today's NBA but his skill set was there. I thought he would be a potential target for the Warriors, but they went with Jones instead.