The Time Has Come to Vote - Malik or Oz?

[Mondo Jay]

Believe me I want Osweiler signed. I think he is a good QB and can fit into what Kubiak wants to do very well. I would love to see him with a full off season as the starter and see what he can do. Just don't want to see our team joining the ranks of the bottom feeders who overpay. Elway has done an incredible job in my opinion of showing he refuses to overpay even if it means talent walks out the door. I don't think he will even with Oz but if Oz starts seeing dollar signs and his agent is known as one of the worst agents who pushes teams to the brink then yeah I could definitely see us losing him and having to come up with a plan B.

Is it possible they could tag Oz and work out a long-term deal with Von (instead of vice-versa)? Especially if the rumors of what Oz may be commanding on the open market are true...

 

[Mondo Jay]

Osweiler at $17 million a year though is a quick way to really handicap the team.

Too lazy to do the homework....what would a franchise tag on Osweiler cost? IF we can sign Miller without tagging him, perhaps a franchise tag on Brock would happen...let him prove himself for a full year before a long-term deal.

 

[SpringStein]

Is it possible they could tag Oz and work out a long-term deal with Von (instead of vice-versa)? Especially if the rumors of what Oz may be commanding on the open market are true...

No, they aren't paying Oz $20 MM this year which would be the pricetag for a tagged QB.

 

[randymon]

Well @randymon you would be proud. I am changing my tune a little bit. Not so much because I like Brock more than I do Malik but mostly because I have been watching a lot of the DL prospects today and man this is a good class. The Broncos really have quite the choice to make as there are guys with huge athleticism but need molded into football players and then there are some great football players that could come in day 1 and be a dominant force.

Some guys I am really liking. I already said I like Sheldon Day but others are Jarran Reed of Alabama, Andrew Billings of Baylor, Robert Nkemdiche of Ole Miss, Adolphus Washington of Ohio State. All have great ability to make plays in the backfield.

Smile. To tell you the truth Cd I kept intending to put in that comment about how deep the D line draft is as a strength to our Oz/Malik theory and I kept forgetting. I was sure you would bring it up also. Like most do say.....the most important position in football is the QB, not the D line. If I am right about Oz,and that is still uncertain then I could see Denver doing just that in rd1 if Malik is gone and from what I've been reading here just now, it looks to be a given , if that's the kind of money he's seeking. Of the guys above you mentioned, Day is the popular choice but I like Nkem the most so far. With the right tutoring of course.

 

[Mingo]

Smile. To tell you the truth Cd I kept intending to put in that comment about how deep the D line draft is as a strength to our Oz/Malik theory and I kept forgetting. I was sure you would bring it up also. Like most do say.....the most important position in football is the QB, not the D line. If I am right about Oz,and that is still uncertain then I could see Denver doing just that in rd1 if Malik is gone and from what I've been reading here just now, it looks to be a given , if that's the kind of money he's seeking. Of the guys above you mentioned, Day is the popular choice but I like Nkem the most so far. With the right tutoring of course.

Except - it was clearly not a QB who was the reason the Broncos won the Super Bowl - hence the Von Miller MVP award. If a QB was not of ultimate importance for this team to win the Super Bowl - what was? Where does that thing of importance rank in this discussion. My premise for this argument - is that thing that made this team a champion - above all - was the pass rush. A rush that could not have come off if - there wasn't pressure from the middle of the Dline - and if they didn't stop the run. The elements of a pass rush that makes this team so special is a delicate blend - that I am not easily persuaded - that keeping that unique talent together for a run - as the most essential ingredient in repeating as Champions.

 

[CEH]

Too lazy to do the homework....what would a franchise tag on Osweiler cost? IF we can sign Miller without tagging him, perhaps a franchise tag on Brock would happen...let him prove himself for a full year before a long-term deal.

Sign Von and put the transition tag on Brock

 

[58crash]

Well how confident can you feel with Osweiler in though? I mean he finished bottom 1/3rd of the league in QB Rating and took a ton of needless sacks where a throwaway would have easily saved him from taking so many big hits.

To me you are taking a risk either way you go. You are maybe losing a couple of pieces to a historical defense if you sign him so the defense could see some drop off while Osweiler continues to produce below average numbers. Or we could be missing out on our franchise QB all in the idea of keeping our historical defense together and hoping that a rookie can come in and be an average starter and dreaming maybe they could be more.

As far as the rumors whether they are true or not they still have some legs. The FA QB market is about as dry as can be. Cousins will resign with the Redskins and Fitzpatrick will resign with the Jets. That leaves Osweiler and a bunch of no names. So when so many teams are QB needy and Osweiler has shown some promise it makes sense for them to be talking about him. Throw in if nothing else it drives up the cost for the Broncos to have to get him meaning other players hit FA from the team.

There is a reason those teams are QB Needy .. If I was QB I would pull an Elway and tell them to drop dead I want no part of you development .

 

[SpringStein]

Sign Von and put the transition tag on Brock

My understanding is that the transition tag would require the average pay of the top 10 QBs. That would be over $20 MM this year...

I could be wrong as I'm looking at top 10 QBs looking at their average pay for their contracts. However, I think the point still stands that it would be awfully pricey.

 

[TDs3nOut]

My understanding is that the transition tag would require the average pay of the top 10 QBs. That would be over $20 MM this year...

I could be wrong as I'm looking at top 10 QBs looking at their average pay for their contracts. However, I think the point still stands that it would be awfully pricey.

I think you are right. According to this it would cost more than $5 million more to tag Oz than to tag Miller.

"2016 Franchise Tag Projections*
Position Tag
Cornerback $14.8M
Defensive End $15.5M
Defensive Tackle $13.4M
Linebacker $14.1M
Offensive Line $13.7M
Punter/Kicker $4.5M
Quarterback $19.8M
Running Back $11.8M
Safety $10.7M
Tight End $9.1M
Wide Receiver $14.5M"

Can't imagine doing that.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I am beginning to think that it might just end up being too expensive to sign both Jackson and Oz. There seem to be a number of teams that have a lot of cap space. Jackson is a proven commodity as both a 3-4 and a 4-3 player. And there is certainly a history of unproven QBs getting big free agent contracts. So, I think both players are likely to get offers higher than what Elway is prepared to pay.

That might not be entirely bad, though, if we could draft a replacement for Jackson in the first two rounds (and maybe a LT with the other of those two picks), get a young QB like Prescott in the third round, and perhaps bring in a veteran QB (maybe RG3).

 

[cdumler7]

I am beginning to think that it might just end up being too expensive to sign both Jackson and Oz. There seem to be a number of teams that have a lot of cap space. Jackson is a proven commodity as both a 3-4 and a 4-3 player. And there is certainly a history of unproven QBs getting big free agent contracts. So, I think both players are likely to get offers higher than what Elway is prepared to pay.

That might not be entirely bad, though, if we could draft a replacement for Jackson in the first two rounds (and maybe a LT with the other of those two picks), get a young QB like Prescott in the third round, and perhaps bring in a veteran QB (maybe RG3).

This is along my thinking too. To keep both will mean some major cuts will need to be made. It also limits us moving forward as we do have some decent names up for contracts again next year. This is the price you pay for being on top.

Now if the rumors are true there is talk swirling that Malik is looking for something in the $14-15 million range. That would make him the 2nd highest paid 3-4 DE in the league just behind JJ Watt. If he is wanting that kind of money to me I just can't justify spending that. Same with Osweiler of $17 million being the number that keeps getting thrown out there as that would put Osweiler about as the 16th highest paid QB in the league. Both numbers are just too much in my opinion and if that is what they want then Elway should continue with what he has been doing and say "thank you but no thank you." These players deserve to go get every penny they can but I hope they understand it does come with then going to a losing organization. Elway said he is trying to sell these guys on the idea of keeping a Championship team together but I guess we will see which ones respond to that idea.

 

[randymon]

Except - it was clearly not a QB who was the reason the Broncos won the Super Bowl - hence the Von Miller MVP award. If a QB was not of ultimate importance for this team to win the Super Bowl - what was? Where does that thing of importance rank in this discussion. My premise for this argument - is that thing that made this team a champion - above all - was the pass rush. A rush that could not have come off if - there wasn't pressure from the middle of the Dline - and if they didn't stop the run. The elements of a pass rush that makes this team so special is a delicate blend - that I am not easily persuaded - that keeping that unique talent together for a run - as the most essential ingredient in repeating as Champions.

It just amazes me how some think you can just plug and play any qb in an offense. How come the Jets and the Rams with those top great D couldn't pull off a trip to the SB? Because they didn't have a qb to that could make critical calls in critical situations in big games. I have to assume to believe Geno Smith or Whitehurst could have done just as good as Manning and Denver would still of won SB with their D. Yeah, Manning never made any critical plays all season that at least produce enough points to win all those close games all year. Just simply rediculous

 

[CEH]

It just amazes me how some think you can just plug and play any qb in an offense. How come the Jets and the Rams with those top great D couldn't pull off a trip to the SB? Because they didn't have a qb to that could make critical calls in critical situations in big games. I have to assume to believe Geno Smith or Whitehurst could have done just as good as Manning and Denver would still of won SB with their D. Yeah, Manning never made any critical plays all season that at least produce enough points to win all those close games all year. Just simply rediculous

Plus which last great defense got back to the big game with the next 2 years?
Not many yet a Manning(s)/Brady/Rodger or Big Ben have been in the last 10 Super Bowls.

 

[nflbronco]

It just amazes me how some think you can just plug and play any qb in an offense. How come the Jets and the Rams with those top great D couldn't pull off a trip to the SB? Because they didn't have a qb to that could make critical calls in critical situations in big games. I have to assume to believe Geno Smith or Whitehurst could have done just as good as Manning and Denver would still of won SB with their D. Yeah, Manning never made any critical plays all season that at least produce enough points to win all those close games all year. Just simply rediculous

Its just a view of subject asked not the reality of the situation. I believe Malik will be gone and Elway has a number in mind for Brock. We all want a stud QB again but, not sold yet on Brock being a stud QB. D is our strength that's why I picked Malik.

 

[redseat]

Outsiders opinion (and honestly I don't know the "other guy") but I would stick with OZ. From what I've seen he seems like he has control over the team and he knows the plays and call audible (not as well as Manning but that will come with time). Seems like the offense flowed decently when he was behind center. I say stick with him.

 

[Malibu]

I am beginning to think that it might just end up being too expensive to sign both Jackson and Oz. There seem to be a number of teams that have a lot of cap space. Jackson is a proven commodity as both a 3-4 and a 4-3 player. And there is certainly a history of unproven QBs getting big free agent contracts. So, I think both players are likely to get offers higher than what Elway is prepared to pay.

That might not be entirely bad, though, if we could draft a replacement for Jackson in the first two rounds (and maybe a LT with the other of those two picks), get a young QB like Prescott in the third round, and perhaps bring in a veteran QB (maybe RG3).

Do people realize the circus that will be around with RG3 and I'm sorry but I haven't seen anything from RG3 of late that tells me he can read a defense and stay healthy. I never believed in the RG3 hype and still don't. Plus I wouldn't call RG3 a veteran QB because he has a lot to learn.

 

[Malibu]

It just amazes me how some think you can just plug and play any qb in an offense. How come the Jets and the Rams with those top great D couldn't pull off a trip to the SB? Because they didn't have a qb to that could make critical calls in critical situations in big games. I have to assume to believe Geno Smith or Whitehurst could have done just as good as Manning and Denver would still of won SB with their D. Yeah, Manning never made any critical plays all season that at least produce enough points to win all those close games all year. Just simply rediculous

Since last year Manning has been garbage. QBR of 9 in the Super Bowl. He was just awful and every time Denver threw the ball I wasn't thrilled because I expected a turnover. He can't move in the pocket and out of the pocket. For how smart everyone claims he is it sure doesn't make up for the lack of arm strength and athleticism. That interception to Ealy was just sad. It has been hard to watch Manning since last year play QB. I honestly believe with Brock Denver still wins the Super Bowl with the team they had. As for next year who knows. Depends who is left. Denver's best offense was 3 runs and punt in the Super Bowl. There is a lot to be said for one 3rd down conversion on offense. Go Broncos!! Peace.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

This might sound nuts - and it probably is - but depending on the position, I think turnover is a necessary evil in keeping the success rolling

There are certainly specific players that need to be retained - Von Miller being one of them ... But I don't see paying Malik Jackson the salary he will command .. Especially when we have a coaching staff that can develop young talent and put their strengths to use ..

I don't get a vote, so I won't mess up the poll.

Miller is a flat out stud and would find a way to get to the QB somehow...but those DL bigs collapsing the pocket and holding the point of attack on the outside runs...imo they make the job easier for the edge pressure guys and imo there's only so much coaching up you can do.

I would probably buy one more year with Brock via a tag, and extend Jackson.

 

[Malibu]

I get what CD is saying though. Doesn't want the Broncos to over pay for a guy that there is only a small sample size on. Yes Oz has had some good games but is it worth paying him big bucks and possibly lose some guys on defense in which the defense is the reason the Broncos won the Super Bowl. Plus you may lose depth at other positions. That's where in Elway I guess we must trust but I'm sure Elway has a number in mind when it comes to $$$$ for Brock. Don't want to be the 49ers and Ravens in which they paid big bucks for there QB's and there team has become absolute jokes. I honestly think Brock is going to be a good QB and not a Matt Flynn but that's what Elway has to decide and what he is worth.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I don't get a vote, so I won't mess up the poll.

Miller is a flat out stud and would find a way to get to the QB somehow...but those DL bigs collapsing the pocket and holding the point of attack on the outside runs...imo they make the job easier for the edge pressure guys and imo there's only so much coaching up you can do.

I would probably buy one more year with Brock via a tag, and extend Jackson.

I will be very surprised if the FO chooses to tag Brock. That would cost nearly $20 million. Miller, on the other hand, costs closer to $15 million to tag.

You do make a good point that having the three good lineman, however, makes the edge rushers more effective. I hope that the team is able to keep Jackson, but I won't be surprised if a team with plenty of cap space (e.g., Oakland) makes him an offer that Denver just can't afford to compete with.