The Time Has Come to Vote - Malik or Oz?

[cdumler7]

Smile. You're not fooling me Cd. I've known you too long. I know you've seen this and your driving yourself nuts trying to think of a plausible, realistic solution that your not even going to believe either regarding this silly option. But you'll give it 100% that's a given.

Haha you are right Randymon not going to believe what I write on here. No I picked Malik because as much as I like Oz I just think Malik is the proven entity here. We know he is really good where with Oz we have glimpses that he could be good but he had some major moments of struggle which is expected. I'm just not ready to overpay for Oz. The teams that have overpaid for the QB position are the teams that have quickly become bottom feeders. Look at the Ravens since they paid Flacco. The Bears since they paid Cutler. The Falcons since they paid Ryan. The Lions since they paid Stafford. They are teams that are very inconsistent because they lack depth. To me at this point anything over $12 million for Oz is too much because of so much unknown. From the sound of things though quite a few teams are lining up to get into a bidding war and we are looking at over $15 million possibly in the $17-19 million range for a guy who has started 7 games.

As for my plan you know I don't type on here without some kind of plan in place. The Broncos have some options. FA looks a little dry. A guy I wouldn't mind giving a chance to though would be Chase Daniel. He has looked decent in his time and fits Kubiak's system pretty well. TJ Yates is another that knows the Kubiak system and did ok in it. Not great options but guys who can come in and compete and offer that solid back up role.

To me it would be about the draft though. I know that is very risky but with a top flight defense, a QB under contract for say the next 5 years possibly at a very cheap rate, and an OL that will hopefully be healthier this year I think we could have a rookie come in and do decent. Kubiak's system is very QB friendly so I don't think it would be too overwhelming for a new guy.

Here is what I could see the Broncos doing. Good chance both Goff and Wentz go top-10. So no real chance to get them. Lynch though is one that because of his final college game has been falling. He fits the Kubiak system with being an athletic QB with a very nice arm. Needs some major work with his technique but that is what Kubiak thrives on. I've seen Lynch now falling into the mid to late teens. The Broncos with getting a 3rd round comp pick this year and if Osweiler hits FA will get one next year too could trade their 3rd round pick this year and 3rd round pick next year to move up in the 1st for Lynch.

If they don't want to do that then they could easily stay and take a guy like Hackenberg who showed incredible promise when having an actual NFL coaching staff working with him. Needs a huge boost to his confidence though as these past 2 years have destroyed it.

Randymon this isn't a perfect situation but we are going to have to make some tough decisions that could make or break this team. Like I said I am just one that I like the proven player in Malik and spending big money on him compared to the QB with 7 starts that we still don't know what we have in him. I like both and I still think we find a way to get both done.

 

[WalkerBoh]

The proven entity argument is only one facet. You also have to look at how easily each can be replaced. I think Malik is replaceable. Could be he is even already on Denver's roster. Replacing Osweiler is more difficult.

I really think Elway is trying to install that all important talent conveyor belt. He'll keep as much talent as he can, but will also be confident that if some talent becomes too expensive that he will be able to replace it just like Pittsburgh does with their linebackers.

 

[cdumler7]

The proven entity argument is only one facet. You also have to look at how easily each can be replaced. I think Malik is replaceable. Could be he is even already on Denver's roster. Replacing Osweiler is more difficult.

I really think Elway is trying to install that all important talent conveyor belt. He'll keep as much talent as he can, but will also be confident that if some talent becomes too expensive that he will be able to replace it just like Pittsburgh does with their linebackers.

I get that it is one point. Like I said though the more I read the more it does sound like Osweiler's price just keeps going up with such a lack of QB play in the league. Which yes should mean we try to keep him but there has to be that breaking point even for a QB of how much we are willing to pay a guy that has so little experience in this league. If the rumors are true we are talking him costing probably around $17 million a year. Do you really want to pay that much for such an unproven player?

 

[WalkerBoh]

I get that it is one point. Like I said though the more I read the more it does sound like Osweiler's price just keeps going up with such a lack of QB play in the league. Which yes should mean we try to keep him but there has to be that breaking point even for a QB of how much we are willing to pay a guy that has so little experience in this league. If the rumors are true we are talking him costing probably around $17 million a year. Do you really want to pay that much for such an unproven player?

I have doubts on any rumor that would value Osweiler so highly. I also think Osweiler knows he has a good thing going in Denver, and will not be willing to toss that aside lightly. Basically I'd be shocked if Denver is forced to pay him more than $14 MM to retain his services.

 

[randymon]

There you are! Hey Cd. I want Malik just as bad as the next guy. To me he is only going to get better with possible multiple pro bowl honors. But, to think if Denver is serious,and I'm sure they are, you don't go grab a guy like Daniel's or Yates ( the latter probably going to cost close to as much as Oz anyway ) or even one of the top 3 qbs in the draft and think you can.put the offense in their hands and believe either of them could do better than Oz along with the D to get back to the SB. It's just not smart. Also, I don't think Oz is going to be un-reasonable with his demands as I think he #1. Doesn't want to leave Denver.#2. Go to a team with many missing parts and learn a whole new system and #3. He knows this team still will have a good shot at repeating. I will go on record and say right now if Denver does lose one of the two, it will be Malik not Oz. Now I'm certainly not saying Oz is going to be the next savior or he's a sure thing but what if he IS ? You going to take that chance on two guys that are no better than back ups more than likely or a draft pick that has less than a 50-50 shot of being in the NFL in a couple years. I'll just add this, if your going to roll the dice on a DT over a Qb to lead you to the promised land again, you sure as better be prepared for a lot of shit to hit the fan if you miss on that one that's for sure. Glad Elway's in charge.

 

[cdumler7]

I have doubts on any rumor that would value Osweiler so highly. I also think Osweiler knows he has a good thing going in Denver, and will not be willing to toss that aside lightly. Basically I'd be shocked if Denver is forced to pay him more than $14 MM to retain his services.

Believe me I want Osweiler signed. I think he is a good QB and can fit into what Kubiak wants to do very well. I would love to see him with a full off season as the starter and see what he can do. Just don't want to see our team joining the ranks of the bottom feeders who overpay. Elway has done an incredible job in my opinion of showing he refuses to overpay even if it means talent walks out the door. I don't think he will even with Oz but if Oz starts seeing dollar signs and his agent is known as one of the worst agents who pushes teams to the brink then yeah I could definitely see us losing him and having to come up with a plan B.

 

[cdumler7]

There you are! Hey Cd. I want Malik just as bad as the next guy. To me he is only going to get better with possible multiple pro bowl honors. But, to think if Denver is serious,and I'm sure they are, you don't go grab a guy like Daniel's or Yates ( the latter probably going to cost close to as much as Oz anyway ) or even one of the top 3 qbs in the draft and think you can.put the offense in their hands and believe either of them could do better than Oz along with the D to get back to the SB. It's just not smart. Also, I don't think Oz is going to be un-reasonable with his demands as I think he #1. Doesn't want to leave Denver.#2. Go to a team with many missing parts and learn a whole new system and #3. He knows this team still will have a good shot at repeating. I will go on record and say right now if Denver does lose one of the two, it will be Malik not Oz. Now I'm certainly not saying Oz is going to be the next savior or he's a sure thing but what if he IS ? You going to take that chance on two guys that are no better than back ups more than likely or a draft pick that has less than a 50-50 shot of being in the NFL in a couple years. I'll just add this, if your going to roll the dice on a DT over a Qb to lead you to the promised land again, you sure as better be prepared for a lot of shit to hit the fan if you miss on that one that's for sure. Glad Elway's in charge.

To me to stay on top you have to be willing to take some chances. Yes my plan could completely backfire. The same could be said though of keeping Osweiler and having the best defense in the NFL divided because of keeping Oz. We won our Super Bowl not because of QB play but because of this great defense.

As for the price of Daniels or Yates no way they even come close to Osweiler money. They will be lucky to make $5 million a year. They have less starts and worse stats that Oz. Heck Yates just showed his value this past year in signing a 1-year $1.5 million deal to be a back up for the Falcons. Now understand in me picking up Daniels or Yates it is with the idea that they are a back up and the rookie coming in and playing. Yes we have no clue how that rookie will do but at the same time we just won a Super Bowl with the worst QB play in the league from Manning. So we can't actually be worse than being the worst QB in the league. Now yes he could play worse than Manning and maybe that happens but I also don't think the coaches would ask as much and I also think part of Manning's problem was he refused to buy into Kubiak's system making the hybrid we tried to run just ridiculously bad.

Like I said though I actually do think the Broncos find a way to keep both. They are going to have to trim some of the fat elsewhere such as Clady taking a major pay cut and probably a couple of other players as well but Elway will get this done.

 

[CEH]

Is there really a team out there that will offer Brock $12MM?
I think Oz will max out at $9MM. Only about 8 teams in play for this service plus

Let's take a look

WASH - probably signs Cousins

STL - Did the young journeyman last year. Snead and Fisher may be on their last year . Will go with a more experienced QB as a last ditched effort to save their jobs

PHILLY - Peterson + Foles has had success there

SF - Not sure what Chip will do.

NYJ - Fitzpatrick - Could be a player for Brock

CLEV - Could be a landing spot. They can't draft another QB can they?

ARI - Does ARI move away from Palmer.

HOU - NYJ and HOU in same boat. Quality defense in need of a QB.

then there is DEN.

 

[cdumler7]

Also just to throw this out there. It was noticed at the Senior Bowl how much the Broncos took notice of the QB's and have done their homework on especially Lynch and Dak Prescott (guy I mentioned earlier that I like). Both fit what Kubiak loves of a QB with a good arm that has good feet.

 

[58crash]

I can see this when you add up that the price tag to keep an un proven QB

 

[randymon]

Wow Cd. I can't believe how much you dissed Peyton. Granted it was prob worst season stat wise but you don't throw Daniel's or Yates in there and see them read the D, adjust the play call and see it work. For all his faults and failures this season, Denver doesn't win SB without him. I doubt Brock or over half of the other starting qbs in the NFL would of delivered either. He must ride into the sunset though if he's as smart as we think. Let the "Oz Malick-less " SB era begin in DENVER!!!!!!! ( mad maniacal laughter inserted here )

 

[CEH]

Wow Cd. I can't believe how much you dissed Peyton. Granted it was prob worst season stat wise but you don't throw Daniel's or Yates in there and see them read the D, adjust the play call and see it work. For all his faults and failures this season, Denver doesn't win SB without him. I doubt Brock or over half of the other starting qbs in the NFL would of delivered either. He must ride into the sunset though if he's as smart as we think. Let the "Oz Malick-less " SB era begin in DENVER!!!!!!! ( mad maniacal laughter inserted here )

To add to your point Randy,


The local media asked Mike Nolan LBer coach from SD thsi year the difference between Brock and Manning. He said it was easy for SD to pick their best play to start with and go with it knowing Brock would not check out of the play. Said when Manning game in , they had to make multiple calls per play. Tomlin pretty much said the same thing.

 

[cdumler7]

Wow Cd. I can't believe how much you dissed Peyton. Granted it was prob worst season stat wise but you don't throw Daniel's or Yates in there and see them read the D, adjust the play call and see it work. For all his faults and failures this season, Denver doesn't win SB without him. I doubt Brock or over half of the other starting qbs in the NFL would of delivered either. He must ride into the sunset though if he's as smart as we think. Let the "Oz Malick-less " SB era begin in DENVER!!!!!!! ( mad maniacal laughter inserted here )

I didn't say they would win the Super Bowl without Manning. I said he graded out as the worst QB in the NFL this past season. Yes his mind is and always has been great but his body just couldn't do what his mind was seeing. He had some decent games but do you really think another QB couldn't have done more in that Super Bowl? I mean the offense took clear till the 4th quarter to produce a touchdown. Really you can only say maybe 6 points of our score had much to do with the offense. His interception was just down right terrible. It was either a terrible read in not seeing the DE drop back into coverage or it was that his body couldn't throw it where it needed to go which again is not something we can have on our team. I think Brock would have done just fine in that Super Bowl with the way our defense was playing.

Believe me Randymon I really want the Broncos to resign Osweiler. The more I hear though the more I have seen his price being driven up. QB's will always get overpaid in this league and it is a quick way to limit how much you can do with your roster. Osweiler at $12 million a year with possible escalators in his contract makes a lot of sense. Osweiler at $17 million a year though is a quick way to really handicap the team.

 

[randymon]

I didn't say they would win the Super Bowl without Manning. I said he graded out as the worst QB in the NFL this past season. Yes his mind is and always has been great but his body just couldn't do what his mind was seeing. He had some decent games but do you really think another QB couldn't have done more in that Super Bowl? I mean the offense took clear till the 4th quarter to produce a touchdown. Really you can only say maybe 6 points of our score had much to do with the offense. His interception was just down right terrible. It was either a terrible read in not seeing the DE drop back into coverage or it was that his body couldn't throw it where it needed to go which again is not something we can have on our team. I think Brock would have done just fine in that Super Bowl with the way our defense was playing.

Believe me Randymon I really want the Broncos to resign Osweiler. The more I hear though the more I have seen his price being driven up. QB's will always get overpaid in this league and it is a quick way to limit how much you can do with your roster. Osweiler at $12 million a year with possible escalators in his contract makes a lot of sense. Osweiler at $17 million a year though is a quick way to really handicap the team.

I agree with the last part of your post. If OZ is going to try and push Elways button financially, Elway will not bend and plan B will then be in motion. I just don't think it will come to that, regardless of the weight less rumors out there. If OZ hits the road I certainly won't have any confidence in whoever they bring in who " realistically "will be available, to do much for this offense either. And that's not a rumor by me anyway..

 

[cdumler7]

I agree with the last part of your post. If OZ is going to try and push Elways button financially, Elway will not bend and plan B will then be in motion. I just don't think it will come to that, regardless of the weight less rumors out there. If OZ hits the road I certainly won't have any confidence in whoever they bring in who " realistically "will be available, to do much for this offense either. And that's not a rumor by me anyway..

Well how confident can you feel with Osweiler in though? I mean he finished bottom 1/3rd of the league in QB Rating and took a ton of needless sacks where a throwaway would have easily saved him from taking so many big hits.

To me you are taking a risk either way you go. You are maybe losing a couple of pieces to a historical defense if you sign him so the defense could see some drop off while Osweiler continues to produce below average numbers. Or we could be missing out on our franchise QB all in the idea of keeping our historical defense together and hoping that a rookie can come in and be an average starter and dreaming maybe they could be more.

As far as the rumors whether they are true or not they still have some legs. The FA QB market is about as dry as can be. Cousins will resign with the Redskins and Fitzpatrick will resign with the Jets. That leaves Osweiler and a bunch of no names. So when so many teams are QB needy and Osweiler has shown some promise it makes sense for them to be talking about him. Throw in if nothing else it drives up the cost for the Broncos to have to get him meaning other players hit FA from the team.

 

[randymon]

Well how confident can you feel with Osweiler in though? I mean he finished bottom 1/3rd of the league in QB Rating and took a ton of needless sacks where a throwaway would have easily saved him from taking so many big hits.

To me you are taking a risk either way you go. You are maybe losing a couple of pieces to a historical defense if you sign him so the defense could see some drop off while Osweiler continues to produce below average numbers. Or we could be missing out on our franchise QB all in the idea of keeping our historical defense together and hoping that a rookie can come in and be an average starter and dreaming maybe they could be more.

As far as the rumors whether they are true or not they still have some legs. The FA QB market is about as dry as can be. Cousins will resign with the Redskins and Fitzpatrick will resign with the Jets. That leaves Osweiler and a bunch of no names. So when so many teams are QB needy and Osweiler has shown some promise it makes sense for them to be talking about him. Throw in if nothing else it drives up the cost for the Broncos to have to get him meaning other players hit FA from the team.

Yeah Cd. I get the unknown with Oz and his flaws but you also have to take in he only had what, 7 gsm working with the first team on regular basis. The " possibility " of having the whole off season,trading camp,etc to improve and learning from one of the smartness qbs to ever play the game bodes well with me. I like his chances a lot better than any of the potential guys they might bring in. He has a bigger upside to succeed IMO than anyone that you've mentioned so far. But, it's all mute if he wants what the rumor board is saying because Elway will let him walk and then we're going to find out just how astute you and others are. That said, I still wouldn't bet against you either buddy

 

[cdumler7]

Well @randymon you would be proud. I am changing my tune a little bit. Not so much because I like Brock more than I do Malik but mostly because I have been watching a lot of the DL prospects today and man this is a good class. The Broncos really have quite the choice to make as there are guys with huge athleticism but need molded into football players and then there are some great football players that could come in day 1 and be a dominant force.

Some guys I am really liking. I already said I like Sheldon Day but others are Jarran Reed of Alabama, Andrew Billings of Baylor, Robert Nkemdiche of Ole Miss, Adolphus Washington of Ohio State. All have great ability to make plays in the backfield.

 

[cdumler7]

Broncos are having discussions of what to do if Osweiler prices himself out of Denver. One name that keeps coming up is RGIII. He did thrive under Shanahan. My guess is with Shanahan living in Denver the Broncos have had discussions with him on what he would bring and whether it is a worthwhile investment.

 

[Mondo Jay]

there is a huge drop off between him and Talib IMHO

If there is a drop off, I don't agree that it is "huge". Having said that, I definitely want to keep Talib.

 

[SpringStein]

Rumor, once again rumor, is that Malik's asking price is $75 MM for 5 years. With what Broncos paid Wolfe, about $9 MM per, that is way out of line for our team.