The Steelers backfield

[ATL96Steeler]

Who the hell let this pole smoker onto the site?

ATL, long time no see...should be an interesting year. Pitt trying to rebound and Cin looking to make a deeper run ... odd how things can flip flop in sports. Usually, it's the other way around.

LOL...Burner is a newbie to the Hoop, passionate...but I think he'll be okay one he gets used to this DB.

Has been a while.....very true...imo for the Steelers to have a shot, they need to fiercely protect the homefield this season because I think they're going to struggle on the road especially vs the playoff caliber teams...CIN has a little tougher row to hoe on the road, but if they play like they did @ home LY, definitely you guys will be in the mix....I'm looking to forward to some real football!

 

[bengaldoug]

This thread has really turned ugly.............................

 

[Cincyfan78]

LOL...Burner is a newbie to the Hoop, passionate...but I think he'll be okay one he gets used to this DB.

Has been a while.....very true...imo for the Steelers to have a shot, they need to fiercely protect the homefield this season because I think they're going to struggle on the road especially vs the playoff caliber teams...CIN has a little tougher row to hoe on the road, but if they play like they did @ home LY, definitely you guys will be in the mix....I'm looking to forward to some real football!

Well, I had to give him a proper introduction...LOL

I watched some of the Pitt/Phi game last night. Ben was off, but I wouldn't worry about him. The defense, IMO, has continued to struggle from last year. Especially in covering the pass....

 

[flamingrey]

I stopped here. I get optimism. Mine borders on homerism at times. You though... delusional. And there is no discussion with that.

Ben is plenty better than Dalton, but still overrated. Find me a time he's made the playoffs when he hasn't had a great defense. He's never carried the team himself. Him and Eli are much the same in that respect.

 

[DanBengalfan]

blah blah blah

while your here, sign up for the fantasy league.

Dan no like be ignored.

Dan feel angry.

 

[Bridgeburner]

Ben is plenty better than Dalton, but still overrated. Find me a time he's made the playoffs when he hasn't had a great defense. He's never carried the team himself. Him and Eli are much the same in that respect.

A quarterback has to carry the team himself/have a bad defense or they are overrated?

As far as quarterbacks who can do what you ask, outside of Manning, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers I don't know of any. Ben is in the next tier. The guys that don't do that. And I haven't seen anyone rank/claim Ben is as good as those top four.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Well, I had to give him a proper introduction...LOL

I watched some of the Pitt/Phi game last night. Ben was off, but I wouldn't worry about him. The defense, IMO, has continued to struggle from last year. Especially in covering the pass....

Yep...I'm not too concerned about the back 4 covering...little to no pass rush I think is the big problem and I don't see that changing a lot in terms of guys just beating their 1 on 1 matchup on the DL. Lebeau will probably play a bend/don't break style again this year between the 20s which means the CBs will have to give ground...gotta keep the play in front of you and tackle when you scheme that way... that has been a concern for me.

We shall see.

 

[Bridgeburner]

Lebeau will probably play a bend/don't break style again this year

Ugh...like getting a tooth pulled watching that.

I miss having a good defense.

 

[flamingrey]

A quarterback has to carry the team himself/have a bad defense or they are overrated?

As far as quarterbacks who can do what you ask, outside of Manning, Brees, Brady, and Rodgers I don't know of any. Ben is in the next tier. The guys that don't do that. And I haven't seen anyone rank/claim Ben is as good as those top four.

I guess that's one way to misrepresent my point.

Where do you rank Ben amongst QB's? Top 15? Top 10? Top 7?

A lot of credit Ben gets is due to the team success he's seen. When he hasn't had a great defense (top 5'ish) to fall back on, he's been very pedestrian at best. His stats and his results.

 

[dare2be]

The stats don't support your claim, Flaming. Steelers had the worst defense last year than they ever had with Ben at the helm, yet he had his 2nd highest total yards of his career last year, his comp% was above his career average, and most other measurables were on par or better as well.

 

[Bridgeburner]

I rank Ben as top 5, right behind the big four. But I can't argue with putting him at 6 or 7 either.

 

[Bridgeburner]

I would rank the NFL quarterbacks as:

Elite 4
1 – Peyton Manning
2 – Aaron Rodgers
3 – Tom Brady
4 – Drew Brees

The Top Ten
5 – Ben Roethlisberger
6 – Phillip Rivers
7 – Mathew Stafford
8 – Matt Ryan
9 – Cam Newton
10 – Andrew Luck

I think Dalton falls in the 18-23 range. And I don't hate the guy. I wouldn't rule out him making a jump.

 

[Be Weary of Query]

Actual quote.

 

[Bridgeburner]

I laughed when I saw that too.

Didn't he also tell the cop he hadn't smoked in a few minutes at first and then change his story to 2 hours?

Just glad he can read the playbook... but then even Terry Bradshaw could do that so...

 

[Superbelt]

We didn't draft him to develop a cure for Ebola.

 

[flamingrey]

The stats don't support your claim, Flaming. Steelers had the worst defense last year than they ever had with Ben at the helm, yet he had his 2nd highest total yards of his career last year, his comp% was above his career average, and most other measurables were on par or better as well.

Yet still a defense that was above average. Here are the defensive rankings he's had to work with (points):

2004: 1
2005: 3
2006: 11 (missed playoffs)
2007: 2
2008: 1
2009: 12 (missed playoffs)
2010: 1
2011: 1
2012: 6 (missed playoffs)
2013: 14 (missed playoffs)

Nobody has had it better than Ben. His worst defense of his career was last season at 14th.

In all of those seasons, only twice has his offense ranked in the top 10 in points and both of those were 9th. 3 times it's been ranked 20th or worse, and 2 of those 3 times in the last 3 seasons.

And his completion % or total yards improving has nothing to do with the argument that he gets way more credit than he deserves. From a team winning standpoint and from an ability standpoint.

 

[Superbelt]

At the same time he had one of the worst passing OL this side of Carr's shell shocking in Houston.

If he wasn't actively running for his life, he was already struggling to unearth himself from under a DT.

What a lucky guy he's been.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I would rank the NFL quarterbacks as:

Elite 4
1 – Peyton Manning
2 – Aaron Rodgers
3 – Tom Brady
4 – Drew Brees

The Top Ten
5 – Ben Roethlisberger
6 – Phillip Rivers
7 – Mathew Stafford
8 – Matt Ryan
9 – Cam Newton
10 – Andrew Luck

I think Dalton falls in the 18-23 range. And I don't hate the guy. I wouldn't rule out him making a jump.

How many playoff games has Rivers, Stafford, Ryan won combined? What makes them so special? I guess you could make an argument for Stafford considering the year he had two years ago. I am cool with your assessment, but just curious why Rayn is in that top 8 when Dalton has basically been on the same exact course as Ryan. How long did it take Ryan to win a playoff game?

 

[dare2be]

Yet still a defense that was above average. Here are the defensive rankings he's had to work with (points):

2004: 1
2005: 3
2006: 11 (missed playoffs)
2007: 2
2008: 1
2009: 12 (missed playoffs)
2010: 1
2011: 1
2012: 6 (missed playoffs)
2013: 14 (missed playoffs)

Nobody has had it better than Ben. His worst defense of his career was last season at 14th.

In all of those seasons, only twice has his offense ranked in the top 10 in points and both of those were 9th. 3 times it's been ranked 20th or worse, and 2 of those 3 times in the last 3 seasons.

And his completion % or total yards improving has nothing to do with the argument that he gets way more credit than he deserves. From a team winning standpoint and from an ability standpoint.

But you did say "His stats and his results".

I already countered the "stats" portion.

"Nobody has had it better than Ben" (regarding defenses)

Well, nobody has had it worse than Ben regarding OL. Currently our best OL player can't even stay healthy for an entire year, and the rest of the OL has been a revolving door over the years (both in personnel and pass protection effectiveness)

So let's go back to "ability standpoint". Would you consider 4th qtr comeback wins and game-winning drives as a measure of ability? Ben falls just below the elites in that category as well, but as pointed out before, no one is overrating him to that level. He is rated where he belongs.

 

[Bridgeburner]

How many playoff games has Rivers, Stafford, Ryan won combined? What makes them so special? I guess you could make an argument for Stafford considering the year he had two years ago. I am cool with your assessment, but just curious why Rayn is in that top 8 when Dalton has basically been on the same exact course as Ryan. How long did it take Ryan to win a playoff game?

I think you need to look closely at "why" they haven't won playoff games etc. Not that I really have. It's just an impression I have. Nothing really scientific. I've always been a Ryan fan and could be overrating him.