The Steelers backfield

[ATL96Steeler]

How many playoff games has Rivers, Stafford, Ryan won combined? What makes them so special? I guess you could make an argument for Stafford considering the year he had two years ago. I am cool with your assessment, but just curious why Rayn is in that top 8 when Dalton has basically been on the same exact course as Ryan. How long did it take Ryan to win a playoff game?

Good question...I would rate Ryan higher than Dalton as well...the biggest reason would be Ryan has been the biggest cause for the success the Falcons have had, particularly in the reg. season...the games have been more on his shoulders. He's mostly stunk in the 1st two playoffs games vs GB & NYG, actually played well enough to win the SEA gm which the DEF nearly gave away and the SF gm which the DEF folded.

The Bengals have had pretty good DEF teams and in the playoffs Dalton may not have outright lost the games, but he his play has not been good enough to win...10-13-10 is not going to cut it too often in Jan.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Good question...I would rate Ryan higher than Dalton as well...the biggest reason would be Ryan has been the biggest cause for the success the Falcons have had, particularly in the reg. season...the games have been more on his shoulders. He's mostly stunk in the 1st two playoffs games vs GB & NYG, actually played well enough to win the SEA gm which the DEF nearly gave away and the SF gm which the DEF folded.

The Bengals have had pretty good DEF teams and in the playoffs Dalton may not have outright lost the games, but he his play has not been good enough to win...10-13-10 is not going to cut it too often in Jan.

I don't know how much Ryan has hoisted that team on his shoulders. He has a really good offensive line, a HoF TE, had decent RB's, and a hell of a receiving core for the most part. Ryan is surrounded with talent on offense, he just hasn't enjoyed the same kind of defense that Dalton gets to.

I am not saying you are wrong, I just think that you and Bridge are overvaluing Ryan.

In order for Dalton to hush his naysayers, he has to prove it on the field. He has done a good job in the regular season, but he has to stop being so miserable in the playoffs. Part of which doesn't help when in the SD game he had WR's and TE's drop like 5 3rd down passes that would have been 1st downs to sustain drives. You don't get 96-115 million dollars for not being the responsible party when the team wins or loses in the playoffs.

 

[cincygrad]

I don't know how much Ryan has hoisted that team on his shoulders. He has a really good offensive line, a HoF TE, had decent RB's, and a hell of a receiving core for the most part. Ryan is surrounded with talent on offense, he just hasn't enjoyed the same kind of defense that Dalton gets to.

I am not saying you are wrong, I just think that you and Bridge are overvaluing Ryan.

In order for Dalton to hush his naysayers, he has to prove it on the field. He has done a good job in the regular season, but he has to stop being so miserable in the playoffs. Part of which doesn't help when in the SD game he had WR's and TE's drop like 5 3rd down passes that would have been 1st downs to sustain drives. You don't get 96-115 million dollars for not being the responsible party when the team wins or loses in the playoffs.

Did you just completely make this up? I honestly don't remember all the drops..... I remember AJ's horrible drop. I remember Gio's fumble. Otherwise, I remember Dalton's fumble when nobody touched him, Dalton's horrendous back-foot throw that almost went for a pick 6, and Dalton's terrible throw to Eifert in the flat for a pick.

 

[bengaldoug]

Did you just completely make this up? I honestly don't remember all the drops..... I remember AJ's horrible drop. I remember Gio's fumble. Otherwise, I remember Dalton's fumble when nobody touched him, Dalton's horrendous back-foot throw that almost went for a pick 6, and Dalton's terrible throw to Eifert in the flat for a pick.

According to PFF stats there was only one drop, by AJ. Dalton was 3-11 for 27 yards under pressure with 3 sacks. He faced pressure on only 14 of 54 dropbacks (25.9%), a similar percentage to his regular season. So blaming the lineplay or the drops is completely incorrect. Dalton blew the game, plain and simple. His rating of -6.2 for the game says it all. And his fumble with nobody around was, well, the only word I can think of to describe it is "hilarious".

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Did you just completely make this up? I honestly don't remember all the drops..... I remember AJ's horrible drop. I remember Gio's fumble. Otherwise, I remember Dalton's fumble when nobody touched him, Dalton's horrendous back-foot throw that almost went for a pick 6, and Dalton's terrible throw to Eifert in the flat for a pick.

Yes, I made up the number, but I didn't feel I was far off. I might be remembering across multiple playoff games dating back to the Texans. My memory is not that good like that anymore. I am remembering Gresham dropping like 2 or 3, Sanu dropping at least one critcial 3rd down conversion, I remember Bernard fumbling inside the 5 yard line.

If those were not all in the SD game, I apologize.

 

[flamingrey]

But you did say "His stats and his results".

I already countered the "stats" portion.

"Nobody has had it better than Ben" (regarding defenses)

Well, nobody has had it worse than Ben regarding OL. Currently our best OL player can't even stay healthy for an entire year, and the rest of the OL has been a revolving door over the years (both in personnel and pass protection effectiveness)

So let's go back to "ability standpoint". Would you consider 4th qtr comeback wins and game-winning drives as a measure of ability? Ben falls just below the elites in that category as well, but as pointed out before, no one is overrating him to that level. He is rated where he belongs.

Carson had like 7 the one year in Cincinnati he had a very good defense. 4th quarter comeback wins aren't that difficult to accumulate when the other team can't score on your defense to take the lead. Peyton Manning on the other hand is a guy who has had a gazillion despite a horrendous defense.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Carson had like 7 the one year in Cincinnati he had a very good defense. 4th quarter comeback wins aren't that difficult to accumulate when the other team can't score on your defense to take the lead. Peyton Manning on the other hand is a guy who has had a gazillion despite a horrendous defense.

he was awesome that year.
that was pre-trash-on-the-lawn-time

 

[dare2be]

Carson had like 7 the one year in Cincinnati he had a very good defense. 4th quarter comeback wins aren't that difficult to accumulate when the other team can't score on your defense to take the lead. Peyton Manning on the other hand is a guy who has had a gazillion despite a horrendous defense.

So we are in agreement then. Ben is no Payton Manning, and no one is overrating him to that level anyway.

 

[flamingrey]

So we are in agreement then. Ben is no Payton Manning, and no one is overrating him to that level anyway.

So now you have to be compared to Peyton Manning to be considered overrated?

 

[Bengalfish]

I don't know how much Ryan has hoisted that team on his shoulders. He has a really good offensive line, a HoF TE, had decent RB's, and a hell of a receiving core for the most part. Ryan is surrounded with talent on offense, he just hasn't enjoyed the same kind of defense that Dalton gets to.

I am not saying you are wrong, I just think that you and Bridge are overvaluing Ryan.

In order for Dalton to hush his naysayers, he has to prove it on the field. He has done a good job in the regular season, but he has to stop being so miserable in the playoffs. Part of which doesn't help when in the SD game he had WR's and TE's drop like 5 3rd down passes that would have been 1st downs to sustain drives. You don't get 96-115 million dollars for not being the responsible party when the team wins or loses in the playoffs.

I will give him some more time. This blew my mind though

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I will give him some more time. This blew my mind though

I would take Peyton Manning any day of the week, but it just goes to show, while Dalton has sucked in certain situations (playoffs and pressure), he is still providing quality numbers and shouldn't be getting quite the abuse that he is getting. Yes, he needs to work on his game, he far from being a polished product, but image also shows he is on par, and young so he has time to improve, especially with the weapons surrounding him on offense.

I do think Dalton has more weapons on offense than Manning did his first 3 years in the league. He is coming around, but he needs to make that next step in the playoffs now to get over the hump, provide a huge boost in mental confidence in those situations.

 

[cincygrad]

I might be misremembering and I don't feel like looking it up, but..... I seem to recall Peyton Manning having a very tough rookie season with low yardage and lots of picks. He didn't have a lot of developed talent around him when he first got there. If I remember correctly, his third season looked MUCH different than his first season. With Dalton, he's looked like pretty much the same guy since he's been here.

I have been impressed with the zip on some of the passes in the preseason. Let's see if it continues this fall.

 

[Wamu]

I might be misremembering and I don't feel like looking it up, but..... I seem to recall Peyton Manning having a very tough rookie season with low yardage and lots of picks. He didn't have a lot of developed talent around him when he first got there. If I remember correctly, his third season looked MUCH different than his first season. With Dalton, he's looked like pretty much the same guy since he's been here.

I have been impressed with the zip on some of the passes in the preseason. Let's see if it continues this fall.

His rookie year ('98) Peyton led the league in int's (28) & pass attempts (575). And he threw for 3,739 yards.

 

[Wamu]

I will give him some more time. This blew my mind though

Damn.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I might be misremembering and I don't feel like looking it up, but..... I seem to recall Peyton Manning having a very tough rookie season with low yardage and lots of picks. He didn't have a lot of developed talent around him when he first got there. If I remember correctly, his third season looked MUCH different than his first season. With Dalton, he's looked like pretty much the same guy since he's been here.

I have been impressed with the zip on some of the passes in the preseason. Let's see if it continues this fall.

That team also won 26 games due to Peyton Manning carrying the defense in his first 3 years. Dalton has had the advantage of a defense to help with the wins stat. With that said though, the throwing stats are not much different and Dalton has a ton of really young guys surrounding him too that make mental mistakes. Where as Peyton had guys that just didn't have the talent around him that Dalton does.

I don't think anyone is confusing Dalton with Peyton Manning, but he should be given a little more slack than I think he gets from this fan base. I think he should still be looked at with a mindset of "cautiously optimistic".

 

[flamingrey]

I will give him some more time. This blew my mind though

LOL.

We've been through this a gazillion times. Flawed logic at best.

 

[bengaldoug]

That team also won 26 games due to Peyton Manning carrying the defense in his first 3 years. Dalton has had the advantage of a defense to help with the wins stat. With that said though, the throwing stats are not much different and Dalton has a ton of really young guys surrounding him too that make mental mistakes. Where as Peyton had guys that just didn't have the talent around him that Dalton does.

I don't think anyone is confusing Dalton with Peyton Manning, but he should be given a little more slack than I think he gets from this fan base. I think he should still be looked at with a mindset of "cautiously optimistic".

If he just once of the three playoff games had even played decently, I could look at him with that mindset. But, he hasn't...........Which makes my mindset "show me"

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If he just once of the three playoff games had even played decently, I could look at him with that mindset. But, he hasn't...........Which makes my mindset "show me"

That is fine. Whatever you think is best for you.

 

[DanBengalfan]

If Dalton can pull his weight against good defenses this season, then we'll know he's ready for the playoffs. It's what good QBs do.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]