Game Thread: Bengals Steelers Shootout

[DanBengalfan]

yea, I mean. if you go down the list. Money is being spent on defense.

but you're only as effective as your weakest link. and it seems we have a few. we need another pass rusher opposite of Hendrichson. disruption happens at the line, and that makes the rest of the defense look much better.

 

[alf8478]

I will also be there Monday night. Can’t wait to see Geno Stone 10 yards out of position and Germaine Pratt mail it in on a tackle in space in person.

WHO DEY!

Lucky us!

I'd rather stay home and watch the Simpsons broadcast

 

[alf8478]

I can't decide if this is the week they completely give up and are run out of the building or if this is the week that they win big and everyone laments what could have been this season. I lean toward the former.... I think they will be completely defeated before starting the game. If it's the latter, we'll probably hear more about the future of the Cowboys than anything the Bengals might have done on the field, but whatever.....

Have fun. Looks like an awesome atmosphere.

It seems like the loser of this game will be torn to shreds by the media for losing to the opponent

 

[Cincyfan78]

yea, I mean. if you go down the list. Money is being spent on defense.

but you're only as effective as your weakest link. and it seems we have a few. we need another pass rusher opposite of Hendrichson. disruption happens at the line, and that makes the rest of the defense look much better.

As much as things change, they remain the same.

Games are still very much won/lost at the line of scrimmage. Either you can protect your QB, or you can't. Either you can get to the QB, or you can't.

Either way, the trickledown effect is enormous for both lines.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

As much as things change, they remain the same.

Games are still very much won/lost at the line of scrimmage. Either you can protect your QB, or you can't. Either you can get to the QB, or you can't.

Either way, the trickledown effect is enormous for both lines.

It's not like they have not worked on that the last few years.

Joseph Ossai 2nd round pick
Myles Murphy 1st Round Pick
Jenkins 2nd round pick
McKinnley 3rd round pick

I mean we have spent some some draft capital on really good college players for the Dline. Ossai has been kinda MIA since the AFC Championship game we lost. Murphy has been hurt. Both Jenkins and McKinnley started the year injured and are only rookies. They are not ignoring positions, they are just not quite getting them right, but jury is still out on last three.

We need a new set of defensive coaches. We need to get an offensive coordinator that is going to keep Burrow and the offense at this level but free Taylor up to coach. We need to clean the slack off the defense and refresh. We need to get Chase signed. Draft in the first 4 rounds, DL and OL. Sign a couple decent secondary pieces in the offseason, one S, one CB.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's not like they have not worked on that the last few years.

Joseph Ossai 2nd round pick
Myles Murphy 1st Round Pick
Jenkins 2nd round pick
McKinnley 3rd round pick

I mean we have spent some some draft capital on really good college players for the Dline. Ossai has been kinda MIA since the AFC Championship game we lost. Murphy has been hurt. Both Jenkins and McKinnley started the year injured and are only rookies. They are not ignoring positions, they are just not quite getting them right, but jury is still out on last three.

We need a new set of defensive coaches. We need to get an offensive coordinator that is going to keep Burrow and the offense at this level but free Taylor up to coach. We need to clean the slack off the defense and refresh. We need to get Chase signed. Draft in the first 4 rounds, DL and OL. Sign a couple decent secondary pieces in the offseason, one S, one CB.

Murphy's advanced stats are pretty decent. I wish they just would run with him. Especially since Hubbard is on one leg, quite literally. How are you ever going to find out what guys can do if you don't give them run? I've never understood that approach by any team/coach. Guys need to play to produce.

I like Jenkins. He's shown flashes. I don't think we've seen enough of McKinnley - but I've seen some good things from him - and he can MOVE for a big dude. I think the DT rotation could be decent with Rankins added in...but they are being asked to do too much, and things that, likely, don't really fit their best use.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I would cut Hubbard, Rankins, Stone, Bell, Pratt.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I would cut Hubbard, Rankins, Stone, Bell, Pratt.

I'd keep Rankins. I'd Keep Stone.

Reasons - they've excelled in the NFL - and with a change in defensive coordinators all but assured (I mean, right, Lou has to go...right?!)...I think I would like to see what they could bring under a new scheme.

Hubbard has been a local guy and hero for a long time, but his play on the field has dipped, he's constantly hurt and he'll be 30 before the start of the next season. Bengals would owe $2M on the cap, but save $9M...so, that would free up a spot for Murphy/other AND free up $9M.

Bell signed a 1 year deal - so no need to cut. He just won't be back. He and Lou can go fishing together. I bet Lou likes to set out 7 nets and cast 4 lines in the water to rush the fish into the nets...and is perplexed when the fish are always far away from the nets, and don't get hooked on a line....

On Pratt, Bengals would owe $2.3M on cap, but save $5.6. They need to get WAY faster at OLB.

However, if you were so inclined with Rankins and Stone:

Rankins would be a $2M on the cap, but save $9M overall. Keep in mind that BJ Hill is also a F/A - so that would be losing 2 of your 4 rotational pieces at DT, with the other two being guys going into their 2nd year.

Stone would be a $1.5M on the cap, but save 6.475M overall.

I mean - if you were so inclined to cut all of them...you could free up just under $31M in cap space to use to re-stock at those positions, or combine some of it to get a higher tier player, likely at DE, followed by DT, then S...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'd keep Rankins. I'd Keep Stone.

Reasons - they've excelled in the NFL - and with a change in defensive coordinators all but assured (I mean, right, Lou has to go...right?!)...I think I would like to see what they could bring under a new scheme.

Hubbard has been a local guy and hero for a long time, but his play on the field has dipped, he's constantly hurt and he'll be 30 before the start of the next season. Bengals would owe $2M on the cap, but save $9M...so, that would free up a spot for Murphy/other AND free up $9M.

Bell signed a 1 year deal - so no need to cut. He just won't be back. He and Lou can go fishing together. I bet Lou likes to set out 7 nets and cast 4 lines in the water to rush the fish into the nets...and is perplexed when the fish are always far away from the nets, and don't get hooked on a line....

On Pratt, Bengals would owe $2.3M on cap, but save $5.6. They need to get WAY faster at OLB.

However, if you were so inclined with Rankins and Stone:

Rankins would be a $2M on the cap, but save $9M overall. Keep in mind that BJ Hill is also a F/A - so that would be losing 2 of your 4 rotational pieces at DT, with the other two being guys going into their 2nd year.

Stone would be a $1.5M on the cap, but save 6.475M overall.

I mean - if you were so inclined to cut all of them...you could free up just under $31M in cap space to use to re-stock at those positions, or combine some of it to get a higher tier player, likely at DE, followed by DT, then S...

I guess I thought Bell was on a two year deal. So that is good.

I think Stone was a product of the defense around him in Baltimore. He is terrible. Now granted, I know some of this is on coaches who are not calling right formations and these guys find themselves out of position to make a play, but he is the most unimpressive free agent since Nick Scott.

I am okay with losing BJ Hill. I am okay with losing Rankins. Let the new defensive coordinator have a say in his defensive personnel. Get rid of all those guys, and truth be told, the more I think about the trade ideas for Chase from Sports Illustrated, the more I am starting to warm to the idea. You don't completely start over, because you resign Higgins so you at least have a single 1B type top WR, even with his injury history. He loves Cincinnati and wants to be here. You can get a kings ransom for Chase as Sports Illustrated pointed out.


1st, 2nd and 5th, 1st and 3rd following year. You save the $35 million plus, you get Higgins back probably at $25 million with his injury history on a long term contract of 4-5 years. You save money on cutting all those guys on defense which have been terrible this year or going free agent, you let the new D-Coordinator have a say in his personnel, you restock defense in free agency and draft, and keep stocking the trenches. You give Burrow, Higgins and 3 competent complimentary WR's, and the offense will be fine. I really like Chase Brown and Herbert at RB. I think that is a great 1-2 punch.

If we want to compete right now, we need more value to trade, and Chase is our only good bargaining chip not named Burrow or Hendrickson. Hendrickson is getting older too, he may not fetch a great haul. That is unless we can capture the #1 overall pick this year by continuing to be historically bad on defense and the Jags and other teams start winning a few worthless games. Unless you have that #1-2 pick with a good QB prospect on the board, you don't have a ton to offer.

I would love to see Ashton Jeanty on this team, but we need another DL, CB/S in this upcoming draft, best in the country at their position to fill one of those needs if value meets draft slot. We also need IOL.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Chase is not getting traded.

He CERTAINLY is not getting traded next year.

I mean - that's great for click-bait articles that want to drive views, but if we are going to work into reality here - Chase is going nowhere, and has already expressed his desire to return and be with Burrow, even after this past pre-season with the contract stuff.

The rest of those thoughts are just noise, because if nothing else, the Bengals do not trade guys like that in those situations.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Plus - I'm not banking on Higgins. Why? He's a guy that's played like 65% of available games since he's been in the league. You just can't rely on him staying healthy at this point.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Chase is not getting traded.

He CERTAINLY is not getting traded next year.

I mean - that's great for click-bait articles that want to drive views, but if we are going to work into reality here - Chase is going nowhere, and has already expressed his desire to return and be with Burrow, even after this past pre-season with the contract stuff.

The rest of those thoughts are just noise, because if nothing else, the Bengals do not trade guys like that in those situations.

What about guys like him that are not QB's asking for record setting deals near QB money with a cheap front office? I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you, Chase is not going anywhere more than likely. However, consider the state of the team, we can rebuild in a single year, or we take the next two to three years to try and build a roster around Burrow and Chase making $90+ million a year between the two of them.

But as you said, highly unlikely because Chase puts butts in the seats and brings this franchise money, which is inherently more important than winning as witnessed since Paul Brown passed away. 1 lucky year, and a second follow up to that which had us all dreaming of the future of this franchise.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Plus - I'm not banking on Higgins. Why? He's a guy that's played like 65% of available games since he's been in the league. You just can't rely on him staying healthy at this point.

Higgins has an opportunity to wait until next November to sign with a contender and walk into the playoffs at nearly 100% health. he should not go to camp for any team, just get whatever surgery he needs, lay low, heal, and then go get that ring. hell, he could be back here if we can get our shit together.

 

[Cincyfan78]

What about guys like him that are not QB's asking for record setting deals near QB money with a cheap front office? I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you, Chase is not going anywhere more than likely. However, consider the state of the team, we can rebuild in a single year, or we take the next two to three years to try and build a roster around Burrow and Chase making $90+ million a year between the two of them.

But as you said, highly unlikely because Chase puts butts in the seats and brings this franchise money, which is inherently more important than winning as witnessed since Paul Brown passed away. 1 lucky year, and a second follow up to that which had us all dreaming of the future of this franchise.

I do hate the "money" argument - because the Bengals will make money regardless of who is here.

The NFL basically prints money. Getting more fans into the seats is such a small drop in the bucket compared to the TV deals that the NFL makes nationally - that this argument doesn't really work like it does with MLB, which teams negotiate their own regional deals.

But to your larger point - rebuild what? They need 2 OL, and another DE/DT, and a CB or S...it's not an overwhelming list, really. THe money by the cap isn't the issue - it's going to be the guarantees, and that's always going to be an issue no matter who is here, or isn't here. The biggest issue on this team may not be the players themselves in general, but the coaches coaching them. First and foremost is Lou. Secondly, I'd say Taylor, but Taylor isn't getting fired, and he's not giving up play calling....so I'm moving on past that. With Burrow and Chase, the offense has enough magic for a few more years to withstand Taylor's play-calling as long as the defense can get into the 15-20 range...if they could get into the 8-15 range, they'll be pushing to be back in the SB...

 

[cincygrad]

I do hate the "money" argument - because the Bengals will make money regardless of who is here.

The NFL basically prints money. Getting more fans into the seats is such a small drop in the bucket compared to the TV deals that the NFL makes nationally - that this argument doesn't really work like it does with MLB, which teams negotiate their own regional deals.

But to your larger point - rebuild what? They need 2 OL, and another DE/DT, and a CB or S...it's not an overwhelming list, really. THe money by the cap isn't the issue - it's going to be the guarantees, and that's always going to be an issue no matter who is here, or isn't here. The biggest issue on this team may not be the players themselves in general, but the coaches coaching them. First and foremost is Lou. Secondly, I'd say Taylor, but Taylor isn't getting fired, and he's not giving up play calling....so I'm moving on past that. With Burrow and Chase, the offense has enough magic for a few more years to withstand Taylor's play-calling as long as the defense can get into the 15-20 range...if they could get into the 8-15 range, they'll be pushing to be back in the SB...

I agree. Coaching can make a big difference. There is no doubt that we need upgrades on the interior line on offense and defense. We could use a high end safety and at least one talented corner (high pick or FA) to pair with some of the other guys that the jury is still out on. It's not a lot and certainly not different than a lot of other teams. We don't need the best D in the league but we can't be historically bad. We don't need to win every 1-score game, but we can't lose every 1-score game.

I think coaching matters and I think you can easily make the point that coaching cost us 3 games this year. If we were 7-5 right now, we would be everyone's sleeper pick for the super bowl given Burrow's greatness. I think good coaches would have had this team at 7 wins.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I agree. Coaching can make a big difference. There is no doubt that we need upgrades on the interior line on offense and defense. We could use a high end safety and at least one talented corner (high pick or FA) to pair with some of the other guys that the jury is still out on. It's not a lot and certainly not different than a lot of other teams. We don't need the best D in the league but we can't be historically bad. We don't need to win every 1-score game, but we can't lose every 1-score game.

I think coaching matters and I think you can easily make the point that coaching cost us 3 games this year. If we were 7-5 right now, we would be everyone's sleeper pick for the super bowl given Burrow's greatness. I think good coaches would have had this team at 7 wins.

Yes...

They've lost 5 games by less than 1 TD...if the defense (or in the NE game the offense) just does 1 drive right towards the end....they win. Maybe not all of them, but 4 of them?

If the defense were a touch better - do they win SD? Pitt? I think at some point, the offense just presses too much and gets to pigeon holed because the defense continues to not just leak, but offer little resistance to any offense...

 

[cincygrad]

Yes...

They've lost 5 games by less than 1 TD...if the defense (or in the NE game the offense) just does 1 drive right towards the end....they win. Maybe not all of them, but 4 of them?

If the defense were a touch better - do they win SD? Pitt? I think at some point, the offense just presses too much and gets to pigeon holed because the defense continues to not just leak, but offer little resistance to any offense...

Off the top of my head, I definitely blame the week 1 loss on coaching. There is no excuse to lose a home opener against a team starting Jacoby Briset that is in full rebuild. The game in Baltimore is also on the coaching staff - The Ravens did not have it that night. They were sluggish and we were playing them at a good time. The defensive and short yardage failures cost us repeatedly in that game. You can make an argument that the Washington game was a coaching failure given our lack of plan for their offense. Stopping them even once or twice leads to a different outcome. The critical, game changing play in KC involved a rookie playing on 4th and long rather than one of our best defensive players (Hilton) over the prior 3 seasons.

I think that first B-more game was a toss-up. I think the Chargers game was a toss-up. I think Philly flat out beat us. Not sure what to make of that Pittsburgh game. We looked better against their D than most but we also made their offense look like one of the best in the league.

So yeah.... I'd say 4 games lost to bad coaching. This was the same shit that was going on in LA the last couple of years before the wheels came fully off and they started getting blown out. Same shit happened in Chicago this year which is why they got rid of Eberflus. I hope the Bengals don't make the same mistake the Jets and Bears made this offseason. That is, if you are questioning a coaching change because the results show you that you need to question it, you should just go ahead and do it. It isn't worth wasting another season hoping for something different.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Off the top of my head, I definitely blame the week 1 loss on coaching. There is no excuse to lose a home opener against a team starting Jacoby Briset that is in full rebuild. The game in Baltimore is also on the coaching staff - The Ravens did not have it that night. They were sluggish and we were playing them at a good time. The defensive and short yardage failures cost us repeatedly in that game. You can make an argument that the Washington game was a coaching failure given our lack of plan for their offense. Stopping them even once or twice leads to a different outcome. The critical, game changing play in KC involved a rookie playing on 4th and long rather than one of our best defensive players (Hilton) over the prior 3 seasons.

I think that first B-more game was a toss-up. I think the Chargers game was a toss-up. I think Philly flat out beat us. Not sure what to make of that Pittsburgh game. We looked better against their D than most but we also made their offense look like one of the best in the league.

So yeah.... I'd say 4 games lost to bad coaching. This was the same shit that was going on in LA the last couple of years before the wheels came fully off and they started getting blown out. Same shit happened in Chicago this year which is why they got rid of Eberflus. I hope the Bengals don't make the same mistake the Jets and Bears made this offseason. That is, if you are questioning a coaching change because the results show you that you need to question it, you should just go ahead and do it. It isn't worth wasting another season hoping for something different.

100%

My biggest fear with this slow to react dipshit franchise is we improve the roster, but roll it back with the same coaching staff.

Only to watch 2025 play out in similar way. Slow start due to Taylor’s camp for pussies. Lose all our division games by 7 points or less. Miss the playoffs again…and THEN make changes. After wasting yet another season of Joe and JaMarr’s prime.

The cheapest and most effective way of turning this around and maximizing what we CURRENTLY have is getting a new staff in here. One with a vision for offense and defense. And the ability to scheme around players strengths.

 

[cincygrad]

100%

My biggest fear with this slow to react dipshit franchise is we improve the roster, but roll it back with the same coaching staff.

Only to watch 2025 play out in similar way. Slow start due to Taylor’s camp for pussies. Lose all our division games by 7 points or less. Miss the playoffs again…and THEN make changes. After wasting yet another season of Joe and JaMarr’s prime.

The cheapest and most effective way of turning this around and maximizing what we CURRENTLY have is getting a new staff in here. One with a vision for offense and defense. And the ability to scheme around players strengths.

Absolutely true. In an era of guaranteed big money contracts for players, coaches are still relatively cheap. And we see every year a new coaching staff come in and turn around bad situations for underperforming teams. You'd figure the Bengals would like this strategy, but I suppose their aversion to paying people (fired coaches) for seasons they aren't working is too big a hill for them to climb.