The real reasons why baseball games take forever...

[Rock Strongo]

Yup, managers' have been minimized.........Fire a manager, the next guy will operate mostly in the same exact way

i will match you and raise you one john farrell

 

[Clayton]

Yes there is little strategy because it's so specialized.

And the Cardinals bullpen isn't very good. I'd like to see what manager would do things differently in St Louis. Is Matheny mis-managing the bullpen by doing something different? Or is following the formula a mis-management in itself? Because if so, that's my point.

I know before the season (maybe 2 years ago) there was some website talking about relief pitching and coaches and they basically showed that most of them made the right decision most of the time.

And then there was Matheny who was actually underperforming someone literally taking blind guesses.

I'd imagine its something he has become better at (and his pinch batting numbers last year were the best in the league IIRC) so it might just be statistics creating an outlier. The Cardinals have a huge late inning issue this year but Ive seen a lot of errors, baserunning issues, bad hitting and bad relief pitching so its just a down year overall and not just one thing.

The formula itself is something that might actually be holding pitchers back, too. Micromanaging is not some sort of thing that always works out.

If the DH is an extension of pitching specialization then one would assume that you could take it to its logical course and just have no pitching changes within an inning to really watch coaches sweat. Thats less strategy and more 'push your luck' which is its own kind of entertainment that could work on its own merits and would cut down on game time.

Of course, if relief pitchers get blasted on a more regular basis then game time is going to go up again.

 

[broncosmitty]

Who decides what's right?


Besides the manager?

 

[soxfan1468927]

I know before the season (maybe 2 years ago) there was some website talking about relief pitching and coaches and they basically showed that most of them made the right decision most of the time.

And then there was Matheny who was actually underperforming someone literally taking blind guesses.

I'd imagine its something he has become better at (and his pinch batting numbers last year were the best in the league IIRC) so it might just be statistics creating an outlier. The Cardinals have a huge late inning issue this year but Ive seen a lot of errors, baserunning issues, bad hitting and bad relief pitching so its just a down year overall and not just one thing.

The formula itself is something that might actually be holding pitchers back, too. Micromanaging is not some sort of thing that always works out.

If the DH is an extension of pitching specialization then one would assume that you could take it to its logical course and just have no pitching changes within an inning to really watch coaches sweat. Thats less strategy and more 'push your luck' which is its own kind of entertainment that could work on its own merits and would cut down on game time.

I'd like to see what they determined to be the "right" decision in those moments. For example, last week the Astros loaded the bases against the Red Sox in the 8th inning in a 2-run game, Farrell stuck with Robby Scott, and he got out of it by having a guy thrown out at home. Those stats may say "well he got out of it, so it was the right call" but in my opinion, the right call would have been to go to Kimbrel, even if it meant Kimbrel couldn't finish the game.

And yes, there's breaking from the formula in a positive and negative way. Doing something different doesn't guarantee that manager is making the right call.

To your last paragraph, I wouldn't mind that. I think a caveat has to be put in to allow pitching changes in the event of an injury. And therefore has to be something that prevents managers from abusing that. It may be less strategy, but there will also be a different "team building" component that will come in to play. As well as having to look further down the lineup than just "there's a lefty, I put in my left reliever"

 

[soxfan1468927]

I love baseball, so I don't care how long games are. I can always stare at my phone like a zombie during pitching changes and sech.

I love baseball too, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get back to the pace it was 30 or 40 years ago.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Who decides what's right?


Besides the manager?

Me and Dirt

 

[Clayton]

To your last paragraph, I wouldn't mind that. I think a caveat has to be put in to allow pitching changes in the event of an injury. And therefore has to be something that prevents managers from abusing that. It may be less strategy, but there will also be a different "team building" component that will come in to play. As well as having to look further down the lineup than just "there's a lefty, I put in my left reliever"

I'd be okay with that but thats just me. Like I said, though, I suspect it wouldn't actually make the games shorter.

As far as the 'right' choice for relief pitching, the numbers they were looking at were specifically based around whether or not the manager put the reliever with the best numbers against the right/lefty situation. Most managers are pretty much by the book. Obviously there is a LOT more that goes into it than that but for most managers thats the one biggest factor.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I'd be okay with that but thats just me. Like I said, though, I suspect it wouldn't actually make the games shorter.

As far as the 'right' choice for relief pitching, the numbers they were looking at were specifically based around whether or not the manager put the reliever with the best numbers against the right/lefty situation. Most managers are pretty much by the book. Obviously there is a LOT more that goes into it than that but for most managers thats the one biggest factor.

Yup and right there, the answers are there for them. Farrell even mentioned it in his last blunder. He used Robby Scott against Salvador Perez because Perez is actually better at hitting righties than lefties, despite being a right-handed hitter. But he was still wrong, the answer was Kimbrel.

 

[Rex Racer]

Who decides what's right?


Besides the manager?

Hindsight

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Hockey games last longer than an hour. Soccer matches are 1:55 minutes or so and have 1:30 minutes of action.

Soccer might be gayer than basketball.

 

[richig07]

Hey, if you want the highest Action to Time ratio, go with soccer.

I've only recently started to give soccer a chance, and while I must admit that it will never be popular in the states. There is something very nice about knowing exactly when a game or half will end.

Although, players laying down on the pitch after flopping with a fake injury in the 2nd half is f'ing infuriating.

 

[richig07]

I don't think chopping 20 minutes off of the average baseball game, is going to make non-baseball fans watch baseball.

People who watch the game in 2017, are generally people who either grew up playing it or grew up in a family passionate about watching it.

It's never going to be the biggest sport in the country again. It's just not carved out to be that way in this fast-paced climate we currently live in. People move fast, think fast, they want their information fast and they want entertainment that connects to them on that wavelength as well. Those willing to make exceptions to baseball, are people who grew up with it being apart of who they were.

This is a culture that is now canceling cable subscriptions, because they don't see a point in waiting for something to come on. When they can pull it up on Netflix in two seconds. This is a culture, where many TV shows are just releasing their entire season onto Netflix... in one big upload. Instead of releasing them to the public one at a time. People now want quality, and they want it in quick bursts, at their very own convenience. Not anyone else's.

Football is the most popular sport in the country, by quite a bit and it has the longest average game length of any sport. It also has the most stoppages in action, commercials, ads... etc... The reason it's huge, is because it's just once a week. The games are all pivotal, and the best players are always out there, if even remotely healthy. People can fit that in. We can all set aside 3.5 hours, once a week to get into football. It's 16 short bursts in a season... Then, for the duration of the weeks in the middle, it's back to that fast-paced grind.

People just don't want to sit through that every day, 162 game marathon. Non-baseball fans don't have interest in watching a game on a Monday or Tuesday night. If it was one day, on the weekend per week... with every team having their #1 pitcher going. With every game ABSOLUTELY pivotal to the result of the season. Yeah, I bet it would get a lot bigger. However, the average Joe doesn't want to watch Mike Pelfrey pitching against Josh Tomlin on a Tuesday night, in May... When there's 115 games remaining in the season. Nothing can change that.

It's just a tough sport for the average person to get into, and follow for the entire duration of the season. Baseball has a clique of loyal followers, and it always will. I'm apart of that. However, I think those who believe these "pace of play" changes are going to get the non-baseball fan to care... are horribly misguided. The game just isn't built to be what they want it to.

Baseball, however, DOES have elements that are unique to other sports. People LOVE going to baseball games. It's played in great weather, mostly outdoors, it's a laid back atmosphere, family environment... etc... These are the things baseball should focus on. Keep pandering to who is loyal to you, and I think you'll remain relevant for a VERY long time. Don't go after the NBA/NFL fan, that doesn't care. You're never going to get that person to care.

I'm not saying that means we should not aide the game, and modernize it accordingly. For instance, I am a big replay fan and am on-board with many "progressive" ideas. I just think a total overhaul will drive away some of your loyal fan-base, while the people who don't give a shit... will continue to not give a shit.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I've only recently started to give soccer a chance, and while I must admit that it will never be popular in the states. There is something very nice about knowing exactly when a game or half will end.

Although, players laying down on the pitch after flopping with a fake injury in the 2nd half is f'ing infuriating.

What league are you watching? Some are worse than others with the flopping.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Soccer might be gayer than basketball.

Yeah but it's not confirmed to be gayer, it just might be. So I'm cool with it.

 

[richig07]

What league are you watching? Some are worse than others with the flopping.

Regularly, the EPL and the Champions League. However, I'll also check out the best clubs like Barca, PSG, Atletico, Real, Bayern Munich... etc... whenever I get the chance.

The flopping doesn't completely turn me off. I accept it as a part of the game. There are times where it's obnoxious though. The spanish players seem to be the worst with it.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

my naps are in synch with baseball games…fuc off.

 

[Roy Munson]

Hockey games last longer than an hour. Soccer matches are 1:55 minutes or so and have 1:30 minutes of action.

1:30 of gay action...

 

[Center Ice]

Just because....

 

[jon2tanman]

Pitchers are babied nowadays.

 

[soxfan1468927]

1:30 of gay action...

Soccer may turn you on in that way, it doesn't have that effect on me though.