THE PAC 12 THREAD v.3

[Not Neutral]

Yeah, pretty sure they've never played ASU either. Not that it's relevant.

I know they have played Oregon. They have played ASU at least twice, once when Boise had their best and ASU had their worst. I'm glad you don't remember that. I know they have played the Huskies. I was curious if they had a history with USC. Will try to avoid "irrelevant" questions in the future.

 

[Not Neutral]

However, Arizona State did nab a Boise coach (Dirk Koetter) so the Sun Devils at least have an awareness of the Broncos.

Yeah, Boise still owes us for that favor, although it didn't do much for Boise's rep either. Colorado would make the same claim only stronger. We'll soon enough see how Pete makes out in the "big time".

 

[Not Neutral]

No DI program can survive economically without a fanbase that includes large numbers of people who have no academic connection to the school for whom they root.

But if you are going to call people out for talking about academics when their connections to the strong academic programs are questionable . . shouldn't you also call people out for rooting for athletics programs for which they never played?

Very good point, nddulac, regarding the fact that the fan base includes large numbers who have no academic connection to the schools they root for. Likely includes far, far more than those who do. The schools do their job, which is to educate to the best of their ability. Football is a sport, a business, a big business. I agree with the point Shaver takes issue with and that's an institution looking down their noses at other schools engaging in a sport, a business, using irrelevant criteria to determine if they are worth associating with, especially when they cannot equal the accomplishments of the schools being thus degraded. Football is not Chess. If that issue was particularly relevant to the sport, schools like Stanford or Cal would always win. They don't, so once again, what gives them the right to question the winners academics; what difference does that make to the game. None. It neither enhances or detracts from the activity on the field. On the other hand, it makes sense to me that it is not costing me money for their participation in the business, the game; that their involvement is paying their way and that's what we are there for, to make some bucks. Tying education to the sport is mixing apples and oranges. It goes on we know, that may be the way it is, but Shaver (I believe) doesn't want to hear it.

 

[trojanfan12]

I know they have played Oregon. They have played ASU at least twice, once when Boise had their best and ASU had their worst. I'm glad you don't remember that. I know they have played the Huskies. I was curious if they had a history with USC. Will try to avoid "irrelevant" questions in the future.

No worries. Just kind of came out left field.

 

[OregonDucks]

The over/under for win totals for Washington is 4.5....serious?? I think that is EASY money right there..I think UW easily wins over 4 games this year. shocked it is that low. Petersen getting no credit at all at UW.

 

[The Derski]

The over/under for win totals for Washington is 4.5....serious?? I think that is EASY money right there..I think UW easily wins over 4 games this year. shocked it is that low. Petersen getting no credit at all at UW.

I guess they did lose a lot to the draft but I easily see them winning more than 4. That's Colorado status.

 

[WizardHawk]

The over/under for win totals for Washington is 4.5....serious?? I think that is EASY money right there..I think UW easily wins over 4 games this year. shocked it is that low. Petersen getting no credit at all at UW.

Not sure how much of it is no respect for Petersen and how much is their situation.
4 starting defenders made it as early round NFL off a defense that wasn't great with those great athletes.
Entire D line and most of the LB's will be unknown, unproven.
Shitty starting QB had to leave the program (We heard it was poverty issues, couldn't afford not to go to work) so they will be starting a very green QB.
Their most dangerous weapon on offense (Ross) already out for the season with an injury.

There's a lot there to be concerned with. Oh yeah, and their schedule isn't that easy.

Still, 4? Yeah, that's a bit low. This is college and new kids are asked every year to step up and play on every team and generally they do.

 

[trojanfan12]

The over/under for win totals for Washington is 4.5....serious?? I think that is EASY money right there..I think UW easily wins over 4 games this year. shocked it is that low. Petersen getting no credit at all at UW.

Actually, given everything Wiz said and looking at their schedule, that over/under may not be far off.

@Boise
Sacramento St.
Utah St.
CAL
@ USC
Oregon
@Stanford
Arizona
Utah
@ASU
@Oregon St.
Wazzou

 

[Not Neutral]

Actually, given everything Wiz said and looking at their schedule, that over/under may not be far off.

@Boise
Sacramento St.
Utah St.
CAL
@ USC
Oregon
@Stanford
Arizona
Utah
@ASU
@Oregon St.
Wazzou

Open @ Boise. Interesting! PAC 12 net work no doubt. Much discussion likely whatever the results. Can't wait.

 

[Mark Hannie]

What's up. Tiga fan here. I got one question for yal (thanks)


1. Hau'oli Kikaha Washington- is he a bust for the Saints or not? (seems stiff and slow to me, but it's not like I watch Washington football lol

 

[SUBuddha]

Wow did not expect to piss shaver off that much. You are right athletics is a primary concern for the conference inclusion. Boise would bring a few teams that would elevate the level of competition in those areas. They do not however, as others pointed out, bring a huge recruiting area, nor a huge local viewership (1.6 million residents in the state).

To say that academics has nothing to do with the conference is naive though. In all but 2 cases in the PAC the athletics departments contribute exactly 0 dollars to the academic mission of the university. Instead the revenue is slammed back into the AD to support non revenue sports, I am not saying this is good or bad, just a fact. The exceptions are the 2 privates in the conference, where most of the major sports scholarships are endowed, and hence the scholarships in those sports cost the university no money, freeing up far more money for the AD and the university in general.

All of that said, the member institutions provide the academic side of the house several advantages:

1. The media coverage improves recognition and access to candidates for out of state tuition at the UG level (a key part of most university academic budgets in this day and age). Out of state tuition currently covers the cost of financial aid for instate students at most public universities.
   
2. The conference alignment allows easy geographic access for collaboration on research, and access to applicants for graduate school.
3. The UC's and the 2 privates are very vocal about their academics in their self-promotion. I mean shit, Stanford is one of the smallest schools in a P5 conference (7k UG, 11k Grad) and should have no say in anything, but they truly do have some weight in the conference decisions. Right or wrong that is fact.
4. To fund the university most R1's need high levels of research grant dollars (research grants are 30% of the U of A budget), less and less in state tuition is actually going to the cost of running a major 4 year institution, and is used primarily, to pay salaries and sunk costs on building upkeep. Trust me, I have seen the budget breakdowns. Collaboration on research grants between geographic institutions leads to larger research grants (most universities require 20-30% of the grant money to be handed over the the school for costs).
5. Each of the member institutions in the PAC have at least one field where they are near the top in the country at either the UG or Grad level. In talking to 2 AD's and 1 head coach, this is really important to the faculty that work at these schools. Look at the push back from the Berkley faculty in the last few years as the graduation rates there dropped for football and basketball. Their faculty are truly pushing for the elimination of more sports if things do not change. Academic reputation matters to the people that teach and research at these schools. Since all universities have shared governance faculty voices do get heard at high levels in the member institutions.

TL;DR If it was only about sports Boise and BYU perform high enough in at least one revenue generating sport to justify inclusion. My point was only that sports and money are a major concern but not the only concern for conference membership.

 

[SUBuddha]

What's up. Tiga fan here. I got one question for yal (thanks)


1. Hau'oli Kikaha Washington- is he a bust for the Saints or not? (seems stiff and slow to me, but it's not like I watch Washington football lol

I think you all will be happy with him.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

• To fund the university most R1's need high levels of research grant dollars (research grants are 30% of the U of A budget), less and less in state tuition is actually going to the cost of running a major 4 year institution, and is used primarily, to pay salaries and sunk costs on building upkeep. Trust me, I have seen the budget breakdowns. Collaboration on research grants between geographic institutions leads to larger research grants (most universities require 20-30% of the grant money to be handed over the the school for costs).

• Each of the member institutions in the PAC have at least one field where they are near the top in the country at either the UG or Grad level. In talking to 2 AD's and 1 head coach, this is really important to the faculty that work at these schools. Look at the push back from the Berkley faculty in the last few years as the graduation rates there dropped for football and basketball. Their faculty are truly pushing for the elimination of more sports if things do not change. Academic reputation matters to the people that teach and research at these schools. Since all universities have shared governance faculty voices do get heard at high levels in the member institutions.

I only care about my State of Oregon...keep that in mind as I continue.

Oregon State is an Agriculture and engineering school, tops in both on the west coast. Oregon State has a larger Endowment Fund than the University of Oregon. Go figure.

Oh we belong in the PAC with the big boyz alright. We just suck at football is all.

Please continue on with your pissing match. I'm enjoying the read.


BTW...

Top notch post Budda...+1

 

[WizardHawk]

What's up. Tiga fan here. I got one question for yal (thanks)


1. Hau'oli Kikaha Washington- is he a bust for the Saints or not? (seems stiff and slow to me, but it's not like I watch Washington football lol

No one knows who will be a bust at the next level based on how they played in college.

Of the 4 high draft picks off that defense, he is one with the most questions at the next level IMO. As for speed, he's only been through one set of OTA's? Give him a chance to get up to NFL speed lol.

He's pretty much a pass rush specialist. Not sure how he will develop with the run stopping at the next level, but he's all about getting to the QB and disrupting the passing game and he was pretty damned good at it at the college level. I do believe he led the nation in sacks last year on a defense that overall wasn't stellar. That says a lot about his individual effort. His motor doesn't quit.

As an aside, I work with someone that is a high school football coach and they were working on this new, modern tackling scheme that involves keeping your head back. According to him, they picked it up from UW and UW worked on it extensively with the Seahawks. So Kikaha at least had the same fundamentals the Seahawks are teaching their defense. For what that's worth.

 

[Olyduck]

The over/under for win totals for Washington is 4.5....serious?? I think that is EASY money right there..I think UW easily wins over 4 games this year. shocked it is that low. Petersen getting no credit at all at UW.

Schedule alone could be the problem but the personel changes are a huge factor too.
@ Boise back pretty fair amount of starters how often do they lose at home?
Sac State shoulndt be a problem but could also be a trap. they did beat the beavs a couple years ago.
Utah State healthy Chukie Keeton could be dangerous
Cal lots of offense potential tho not much def.
then a run of at USC, Oregon, at Stanford, Arizona, Utah, at Arizona State is just brutal all could and prob will be ranked at the time they play these games.
@ Oregon State prob not as much to worry about starting a new off and barely anyone back d
WSU dangerous because rivalry.
my guess is they are calling for Sac State, Utah State, Or State and WSU as wins with Calo being that one that could put it over 4.5
Then you have only 5 def starters back 4 of which are the whole secondary who was 120th in the country against the pass. experience should have them better but to from 120 to anywhere above 50th? I doubt it.
Still adjusting to the offense changes under Petersen now with a new QB losing Ross, and then mix and match amounts of starters at the line and WR just doesnt spell a good recipe for success.

 

[BeaverShaver]

Wazzu will win the Apple Cup this season. This will determine the PAC North cellar. Cal will finish 3rd in the North. OSU will finish 4th. These may flip flop if OSU gels early

 

[SUBuddha]

Wazzu will win the Apple Cup this season. This will determine the PAC North cellar. Cal will finish 3rd in the North. OSU will finish 4th. These may flip flop if OSU gels early

I think you are over estimating how hard it will be for Stanford to get chemistry going on a D with an all new line, 3 new starting LB's and a young secondary.

 

[BeaverShaver]

I think you are over estimating how hard it will be for Stanford to get chemistry going on a D with an all new line, 3 new starting LB's and a young secondary.

Are you saying Stanford will finish lower than 2nd? I find that hard to believe. I think its Oregon in first and Stanford in second. No matter what the challenges, Stanford has a great coach and a solid base.

 

[Olyduck]

I know they have played Oregon. They have played ASU at least twice, once when Boise had their best and ASU had their worst. I'm glad you don't remember that. I know they have played the Huskies. I was curious if they had a history with USC. Will try to avoid "irrelevant" questions in the future.

Boise is
1-0 vs Arizona
1-1 vs Arizona St
2-0 vs Oregon
3-5 vs Oregon State
0-1 vs UCLA
5-2 vs Utah
1-2 vs Washington
0-4 vs Washington State
have not played teams not listed

 

[SUBuddha]

Are you saying Stanford will finish lower than 2nd? I find that hard to believe. I think its Oregon in first and Stanford in second. No matter what the challenges, Stanford has a great coach and a solid base.

I think 2nd is doable, but I am not 100%. I think first could be possible if things gel on D quickly and a standout RB emerges as an every down back. I mean the even year schedule is good for Stanford in terms of home games against rivals. I am cautious though, anywhere from 1-3 would be my expectations.

My conversations with people in the program indicate that 1 or 2 injuries on the D-line (Scarlett and Shittu the most experienced both have injury histories) would leave the team starting a Sophomore (Phillips), a RS Frosh (Thomas) and a true Frosh (Annan) most likely.

At LB Martinez is a beast and Kevin Anderson (a former walkon) return, but we have yet to see the production expected from people like Noor Davis or Luke Kamatule. I am hearing that RS Frosh Alfieri (Oregon product) may get the starting nod at LB over the highly touted upperclassmen.

At DB if Hoffpauir accepts his 13th round MLB contract the nickel back falls to a former QB in Dallas Loyd or WR in Whitfield. The rest of the secondary will be primarily staffed by Sophomores (all highly touted but a bit green).

This does not take into account how weak or strong some of the other North Teams could be. I mean the 3rd week at USC has me nervous if the D has not meshed, @OSU can be a tough one at times as well. Then you have Oregon in November. That game has decided the North champ for what 5 years now? That is 3 games the team could easily lose. I hope not, but those are the three I am looking at as true tests.