The Official 2017 Chicago White Sox Thread

[Trudem]

I loved Sale as much as the next guy but we wouldnt have all the young guys that are giving up hope for the future if we didnt move him.

 

[Jiddy]

i imagine jesus told you so? people recognize all sorts of things. doesn't mean much if you don't understand the problem. this club ... right now, is better than they've been in years. sure, it'd be nice to have him now ... but if we did, this club would be as bad as it was last year. too bad logic doesn't do it for you.

We're giving up an entire run more per game this year than last year...and we're gonna be down over 10 wins. Perhaps understanding cuts both ways...

 

[Jiddy]

I loved Sale as much as the next guy but we wouldnt have all the young guys that are giving up hope for the future if we didnt move him.

Some people call it optimism...which is good...A lot of times it's all we have as fans. Especially when it comes to the White Sox. I still don't really believe they won it in 2005 sometimes.

Alas...Other people call it putting lipstick on a pig.

Nothing is certain except absolute results. Half the guys we picked up could or could not pan out. We could be good...or we could be sh*t. It's what I meant about the Marlins/Twins analogy.

Chris Sale is the goods. That's what is for certain. We somehow destroyed relations with him. He should have been the pitching version of Frank Thomas for us. But he isn't...He's gone...for all kinds of stupid reasons. If you want to determine that it was for the better we lost him, by all means.

I'm not convinced until I see actual results. Not theoretical results. Keep the "wait til next year" theory on the north side where it belongs.

 

[idseer]

We're giving up an entire run more per game this year than last year...and we're gonna be down over 10 wins. Perhaps understanding cuts both ways...

apparently you didn't understand me when i said "right now". i don't think you understand much of anything tbh. you're stuck in hero-worship mode and you can't get out of it.

 

[idseer]

Some people call it optimism...which is good...A lot of times it's all we have as fans. Especially when it comes to the White Sox. I still don't really believe they won it in 2005 sometimes.

Alas...Other people call it putting lipstick on a pig.

Nothing is certain except absolute results. Half the guys we picked up could or could not pan out. We could be good...or we could be sh*t. It's what I meant about the Marlins/Twins analogy.

Chris Sale is the goods. That's what is for certain. We somehow destroyed relations with him. He should have been the pitching version of Frank Thomas for us. But he isn't...He's gone...for all kinds of stupid reasons. If you want to determine that it was for the better we lost him, by all means.

I'm not convinced until I see actual results. Not theoretical results. Keep the "wait til next year" theory on the north side where it belongs.

you still just don't get it. on one hand you have sale and a garbage team around him on the other, you have highly rated upcoming players which gives you a 'chance' of getting out of the hole you're put yourself in. you seem to want to stick to your hero and finishing in last or next to last place every year. even a dim wit can see the difference.

 

[Jiddy]

you still just don't get it. on one hand you have sale and a garbage team around him on the other, you have highly rated upcoming players which gives you a 'chance' of getting out of the hole you're put yourself in. you seem to want to stick to your hero and finishing in last or next to last place every year. even a dim wit can see the difference.

It's not "We either have Sale and suck" or "Get rid of sale and maybe not suck in the near future"

It's...We should have f*cking both.

We guaranteed lost a great player. NOTHING is guaranteed with this team over the next few years. Everything we got from Sale is a "what if" scenario. Bird in the hand applies, right?

Sorry man...I'm just not subscribing to the "Well, we did the best we could given the situation" theory. We f*cked up. No need to be all "ZOMG this guy thinks we f*cked up losing Sale" because, we did f*ck up. Simple simon.

Let's just say best case we explode onto the scene in the next year or two with our young players. Then we probably face Chris Sale and Boston's checkbook in the playoffs in a 7 game series. When it happens and he CGSO's us a couple times (with a side of 10+ strikeouts), I expect you to be here...telling me how awesome we could have been if he was on our team. You promise me this Ned.

On a positive note, if the Cubs get back to the WS, Sale might be one of the big reasons they don't win it all. That would be nice. See? There's some positivity.

 

[idseer]

It's not "We either have Sale and suck" or "Get rid of sale and maybe not suck in the near future"

It's...We should have f*cking both.

We guaranteed lost a great player. NOTHING is guaranteed with this team over the next few years. Everything we got from Sale is a "what if" scenario. Bird in the hand applies, right?

Sorry man...I'm just not subscribing to the "Well, we did the best we could given the situation" theory. We f*cked up. No need to be all "ZOMG this guy thinks we f*cked up losing Sale" because, we did f*ck up. Simple simon.

Let's just say best case we explode onto the scene in the next year or two with our young players. Then we probably face Chris Sale and Boston's checkbook in the playoffs in a 7 game series. When it happens and he CGSO's us a couple times (with a side of 10+ strikeouts), I expect you to be here...telling me how awesome we could have been if he was on our team. You promise me this Ned.

On a positive note, if the Cubs get back to the WS, Sale might be one of the big reasons they don't win it all. That would be nice. See? There's some positivity.

oh i don't deny the owner of this club fucked up. i've wanted him gone for years. ask anyone here. however, i'm trying to deal in reality. you are engaging in fantasy. this owner can only win in one way, imo. LUCK (ala 2005)! trying to manipulate a build around by keeping sale is not in his toolbox (or the toolbox of the losers he keeps around him). that would take baseball knowledge. i don't understand why you can't see this. the team makeup HAD to change for anything potentially good to happen.

i hope indeed the sox get to your "best case" scenario. if you think sale is unbeatable or that the sox will automatically come up short all because we traded your hero away you are completely ignorant of how baseball works.
as to the cubs winning or not winning ... i don't really care. i only care if the sox win.

 

[idseer]

btw ... did you know that when the mariners traded randy johnson in 1998 they had a winning % of .472.
randy was a star then and a star after. however, in three years seattle went from .472 to .716!
i imagine there was a hero worshiper in seattle just like you.

 

[Jiddy]

oh i don't deny the owner of this club fucked up. i've wanted him gone for years. ask anyone here. however, i'm trying to deal in reality. you are engaging in fantasy. this owner can only win in one way, imo. LUCK (ala 2005)! trying to manipulate a build around by keeping sale is not in his toolbox (or the toolbox of the losers he keeps around him). that would take baseball knowledge. i don't understand why you can't see this. the team makeup HAD to change for anything potentially good to happen.

i hope indeed the sox get to your "best case" scenario. if you think sale is unbeatable or that the sox will automatically come up short all because we traded your hero away you are completely ignorant of how baseball works.
as to the cubs winning or not winning ... i don't really care. i only care if the sox win.

Jerry Reinsdorf is on record saying (before the 2005 championship) that he'd trade all the Bulls championships for one White Sox championship. That man bleeds White Sox. He may not be great, but he wants to f*cking win...bad. Granted, he is also plagued by the fact that he's loyal to a fault. If somebody sh*t talks the organization, buh f*cking bye. If somebody has been good to the organization, he'll die with them...which is why we get odd moves like Guillen and Ventura at the helm and Kenny Williams as GM. I've never been averse to the loyalty thing, though. So I wouldn't consider the ownership a complete debacle. The White Sox have been a fairly competitive team for most of my life...so the downward spiral of the past few years is pretty disappointing.

 

[Jiddy]

btw ... did you know that when the mariners traded randy johnson in 1998 they had a winning % of .472.
randy was a star then and a star after. however, in three years seattle went from .472 to .716!
i imagine there was a hero worshiper in seattle just like you.

There's another side to that coin...like Randy Johnson winning a World Series and multiple Cy Youngs after that. I'm sure Seattle fans were thrilled.

 

[idseer]

There's another side to that coin...like Randy Johnson winning a World Series and multiple Cy Youngs after that. I'm sure Seattle fans were thrilled.

that isn't the point. stars are dealt for good reasons (mostly). sale may go on to win some championships (then again maybe not) but that has no bearing on what the sox needed to do. i think i can say with relative confidence that sale wouldn't have won diddly with the sox had he stayed ... and with the two key players they got for him maybe they CAN win diddly!
and btw, johnson may not have fared as well staying with seattle either.

 

[idseer]

Jerry Reinsdorf is on record saying (before the 2005 championship) that he'd trade all the Bulls championships for one White Sox championship. That man bleeds White Sox. He may not be great, but he wants to f*cking win...bad. Granted, he is also plagued by the fact that he's loyal to a fault. If somebody sh*t talks the organization, buh f*cking bye. If somebody has been good to the organization, he'll die with them...which is why we get odd moves like Guillen and Ventura at the helm and Kenny Williams as GM. I've never been averse to the loyalty thing, though. So I wouldn't consider the ownership a complete debacle. The White Sox have been a fairly competitive team for most of my life...so the downward spiral of the past few years is pretty disappointing.

i couldn't care less what reinsdork said. he's a dumbass for an owner. he picks bad people, he puts personal friendship before the team. he backed harrelson as a gm with no qualifications (and that cost us a great manager). same with ventura. he colluded with other owners to drive down player salaries in the 80's. threatened to move the team if he didn't get his new stadium. has no baseball sense whatsoever!

loyalty in business is BAD business. he's an ignorant pig-headed owner who doesn't give a damn about the team's fortunes because he's making $$$ hand over fist whether they win or lose. sure it'd be nice if they won .... but he really doesn't care. it shows in his actions ... not his bullshit words.

he's a TERRIBLE owner! he's personally kept this team in the gutter for over ten years.

 

[idseer]

it's not just shoulder inflammation. that's the symptom. first he's dl'd because of something called "biceps bursitis". well, there's no such things as biceps bursitis! the fact is they don't have a diagnosis and it's been since april.
last year it's his wrist and neck discomfort.
you know as well as i that some guys are just too delicate to play major league baseball ... no matter how talented they are. maybe he'll be fine and maybe he won't. until he shows he can play regularly without going on the dl he's a big question mark. i imagine this latest problem will result in the sox going for another lefty arm in the next draft whereas they were thinking of a field position. i don't think the sox can count on rodon.

fulmer can't be done. he's a never was

out another 6 to 8 months shoulder operation. like i said ... roDONE!
by the time this guy is actually healthy enough to pitch again he'll no longer be sox property.

 

[idseer]

out another 6 to 8 months shoulder operation. like i said ... roDONE!
by the time this guy is actually healthy enough to pitch again he'll no longer be sox property.

... to continue (in case anyone is reading this) .............. how many teams have gotten screwed this way? in a standard contract there should either be a clause that time spent on a disabled list does not count toward the length of a contract, or maybe instead of for years contracts should be signed for a number of games actually available for.
why should a player be signed for 5 years and be on the disabled list for 3, still get paid in full, and then leave the team that took care of them? the system sucks!

 

[idseer]

67 - 95
would have appreciated 3 more losses .... but nOOOOOOoooooo!
4th pick as it is. glad cincinnatti won otherwise 5th.

 

[Jiddy]

i couldn't care less what reinsdork said. he's a dumbass for an owner. he picks bad people, he puts personal friendship before the team. he backed harrelson as a gm with no qualifications (and that cost us a great manager). same with ventura. he colluded with other owners to drive down player salaries in the 80's. threatened to move the team if he didn't get his new stadium. has no baseball sense whatsoever!

loyalty in business is BAD business. he's an ignorant pig-headed owner who doesn't give a damn about the team's fortunes because he's making $$$ hand over fist whether they win or lose. sure it'd be nice if they won .... but he really doesn't care. it shows in his actions ... not his bullshit words.

he's a TERRIBLE owner! he's personally kept this team in the gutter for over ten years.

Loyalty is an undervalued trait in today's day and age. Be careful what you believe.

I will say that dumping LaRussa is probably the worst move in professional sports history...so if you hate Jerry for that, I can't blame you too much, but it seems like you have a lot more rooted disdain for our team's owner than just that. It is somewhat sad to think Jerry Reinsdorf has more championships than Bill Veeck. But, I defer, the grass isn't always greener. You give me a sports forum full of team forums...and I'll show you a sh*t ton of fanbases crying about their owner...

 

[idseer]

Loyalty is an undervalued trait in today's day and age. Be careful what you believe.

you are clueless. "loyalty" is what gives you kenny williams. loyalty is what gives you nepotism. loyalty is what gives jobs to people that don't deserve them in business and in government. "loyalty" keeps better people down. loyalty is an OVER-valued trait!

 

[idseer]

It is somewhat sad to think Jerry Reinsdorf has more championships than Bill Veeck.

what's sad is that you think reinsdork somehow was instrumental in those championships. reinsdork had nothing to do with getting jordan. jordan 'fell' to the bulls. and jordan's the reason the bulls won every single championship they won! they sucked before that ... and they've sucked ever since. what's so good about the owner?
he certainly wasn't responsible for the sox in 2005 either. the team was a collection of average players with a couple good players and 6 players with career years. the team was quickly dismantled after that and the reason they've been in the toilet since is the clown who owns the team.

bad owners' teams sometimes win. even with foolish decisions.
i won't deny he's a good businessman. but he's a HORRIBLE owner!

 

[Jiddy]

you are clueless. "loyalty" is what gives you kenny williams. loyalty is what gives you nepotism. loyalty is what gives jobs to people that don't deserve them in business and in government. "loyalty" keeps better people down. loyalty is an OVER-valued trait!

There you go chicken and egging again...You earn loyalty through shared success. So applying it to nepotism is foolhardy and based on an assumption that a successful person will all of a sudden turn into some kind of loser, when in fact, usually a successful person is that way for a reason...and remains that way. What you are describing is bias...

 

[Jiddy]

what's sad is that you think reinsdork somehow was instrumental in those championships. reinsdork had nothing to do with getting jordan. jordan 'fell' to the bulls. and jordan's the reason the bulls won every single championship they won! they sucked before that ... and they've sucked ever since. what's so good about the owner?
he certainly wasn't responsible for the sox in 2005 either. the team was a collection of average players with a couple good players and 6 players with career years. the team was quickly dismantled after that and the reason they've been in the toilet since is the clown who owns the team.

bad owners' teams sometimes win. even with foolish decisions.
i won't deny he's a good businessman. but he's a HORRIBLE owner!

Meanwhile, Jerry Reinsdorf is in the hall of fame being presented by Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen...