The Last Movie You Watched (no spoilers)

[calsnowskier]

Spoiler

I don't think you're being terribly fair to Team Cap. Team Cap was right - the Winter Soldier was innocent. I think Team Cap would stop being the good guy if the Winter Soldier actually was an evil entity. Being egalitarian isn't what Captain America is all about. He has no problem doing the most virtuous thing against all odds. I agree with you about NY and the Wakandan City being political B.S. but that pretty much how politics works in real life. The U.N. plan was named after Sokovia IIRC and given the size of the legislation, it was probably already being proposed long before that incident.

Absolutely. I am Team Cap because I am a conservative Libertarian and am, at my most basic being, against handing control of myself to someone else. Therefore, Team Cap is the team I identify with the most.

My point is just that if you extrapolate Caps actions out to everyone, that is anarchy. Who is to determine who has to conform to societal norms and who does not? If the Avengers can act without oversight, why cant Hydra?

I abandoned the spoiler tag because this is more of a political post vs a movie-specific post.

 

[tabascojet]

Jupiter rising....so much pointless plot development and scenes in this. Looks great but script is shit.

 

[beardown07]

Deadpool...finally.


Pretty good stuff.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Absolutely. I am Team Cap because I am a conservative Libertarian and am, at my most basic being, against handing control of myself to someone else. Therefore, Team Cap is the team I identify with the most.

My point is just that if you extrapolate Caps actions out to everyone, that is anarchy. Who is to determine who has to conform to societal norms and who does not? If the Avengers can act without oversight, why cant Hydra?

I abandoned the spoiler tag because this is more of a political post vs a movie-specific post.

Are you talking about acting without any oversight or without government oversight? I haven't seen the movie yet so I'm really just asking questions here, not setting up to make my own points.

 

[calsnowskier]

Are you talking about acting without any oversight or without government oversight? I haven't seen the movie yet so I'm really just asking questions here, not setting up to make my own points.

I am not sure if you are asking my personal limits, or the scope of the film. I don't think the specific ideas presented in the film are a secret, but I will avoid that for potential spoiler avoidance.

I don't want to get too deep in politics on this board, though. Not the place. But I will always err on the side of less government control because once the gov gets their paws on something, they NEVER let go. Saying that, I acknowledge that sometimes that strategy is, in fact, an error.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I am not sure if you are asking my personal limits, or the scope of the film. I don't think the specific ideas presented in the film are a secret, but I will avoid that for potential spoiler avoidance.

I don't want to get too deep in politics on this board, though. Not the place. But I will always err on the side of less government control because once the gov gets their paws on something, they NEVER let go. Saying that, I acknowledge that sometimes that strategy is, in fact, an error.

I was asking about the film, but I understand not wanting to spoil it.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I am not sure if you are asking my personal limits, or the scope of the film. I don't think the specific ideas presented in the film are a secret, but I will avoid that for potential spoiler avoidance.

I don't want to get too deep in politics on this board, though. Not the place. But I will always err on the side of less government control because once the gov gets their paws on something, they NEVER let go. Saying that, I acknowledge that sometimes that strategy is, in fact, an error.

And just to see if I can find something out without actually talking about politics... out of curiosity if I mentioned shrike, joe from Lowell or "Chony" would you know who/what I was talking about?

 

[calsnowskier]

I was asking about the film, but I understand not wanting to spoil it.

I used the spoiler tag just to be safe. I don't think this is too spoilery, though...

Spoiler

due to a series of high collateral damage events (New York in Avengers, Sokovia in Ultron, a few others), the UN wants to take control of all "super heroes" like the Avengers. Stark is still distraught with guilt over Sokovia so he is game for handing the primary decision making over to the gov. Cap wants the autonomy to do what is needed when it is needed and does not want to be forced to do things he does not believe in.

 

[calsnowskier]

And just to see if I can find something out without actually talking about politics... out of curiosity if I mentioned shrike, joe from Lowell or "Chony" would you know who/what I was talking about?

Nope. No idea.

 

[chf]

But I will always err on the side of less government control because once the gov gets their paws on something, they NEVER let go.

Not true actually. But it's been such a part of American folklore for so long, that people think it is true.

Canada invoked it's 'War Measures Act' during a terrorist crisis, and then immediately recinded the emergency powers. The US has changed some of its own horrible policies like the internment of Japanese during WW2, and made redress for them.

The government IS slow and inflexible and not light on its feet (by design), but even though everyone who hangs out on message boards can cite chapter and verse all the failures, government isn't inherently bad, and doesn't NEVER let go of power it improperly wields. The US system is designed TO restrict the power of the executive, with separation of powers, most western democracies have similar mechanics.

To move it back to the movie specifically, other than the 'kill order' in the initial German SWAT vs hockey hair dude - wouldn't the info about his innocence come out eventually anyway?

To move it back to the real world, since the Avengers are a defacto peace-keeping force, wouldn't law enforcement be able to make the same arguments made by Cap in the movie?

I KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU HERE, so I'm going to do X,Y, or Z in the pursuit of that safety.

Sounds like exactly the reasoning that libertarians rail against all the time. What gives you the right to tell me (us) what's best for us?

So whether it's a police tac team banging in your door or a cop doing a stop and frisk on a hunch, they've just got your best interests at heart, let them get on with their jobs, and stop questioning their methods.

 

[chf]

Question about the new member

Spoiler

So is other re-boot Spider man actor gonzo then?

 

[calsnowskier]

Not true actually. But it's been such a part of American folklore for so long, that people think it is true.

Canada invoked it's 'War Measures Act' during a terrorist crisis, and then immediately recinded the emergency powers. The US has changed some of its own horrible policies like the internment of Japanese during WW2, and made redress for them.

The government IS slow and inflexible and not light on its feet (by design), but even though everyone who hangs out on message boards can cite chapter and verse all the failures, government isn't inherently bad, and doesn't NEVER let go of power it improperly wields. The US system is designed TO restrict the power of the executive, with separation of powers, most western democracies have similar mechanics.

To move it back to the movie specifically, other than the 'kill order' in the initial German SWAT vs hockey hair dude - wouldn't the info about his innocence come out eventually anyway?

To move it back to the real world, since the Avengers are a defacto peace-keeping force, wouldn't law enforcement be able to make the same arguments made by Cap in the movie?

I KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU HERE, so I'm going to do X,Y, or Z in the pursuit of that safety.

Sounds like exactly the reasoning that libertarians rail against all the time. What gives you the right to tell me (us) what's best for us?

So whether it's a police tac team banging in your door or a cop doing a stop and frisk on a hunch, they've just got your best interests at heart, let them get on with their jobs, and stop questioning their methods.

Great points. Some that I made previously.

This is exactly why this is such a great movie. It presents the problem and both sides of the argument with sympathetic faces. Most movies will present a political argument while only showing one side being thought out and sympathetic. The scene in Vienna with the whole team around the table debating was an awsome scene.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Question about the new member

Spoiler

So is other re-boot Spider man actor gonzo then?

Yes, Holland will be taking over

 

[chf]

Great points. Some that I made previously.

This is exactly why this is such a great movie. It presents the problem and both sides of the argument with sympathetic faces. Most movies will present a political argument while only showing one side being thought out and sympathetic. The scene in Vienna with the whole team around the table debating was an awsome scene.

Fair enough. I wouldn't say 'great,' but that's a quibble. The big showdown at the airport seemed like they were playfighting in someone's rumpus room. It was for fun, and no-one was really in any danger.

I thought they might drive the point home very forcefully with Marty Kaan's demise, but they wimped out.

But yeah, I appreciated that they tried to make a movie that was ABOUT something, and not just stuff blowing up real good, to quote John Candy.

I'd think if we came up with a list, it'd be pretty lengthy, all the TV shows and movies that have wrestled with this general topic. Homeland etc.

Don't think it's too much of a limb to say that we'll be seeing them for another 25 years or so at least.

 

[chf]

Dunno if anyone else noticed, but they made reference to the Slovakia accords and the movie events in the latest Agents of Shield.

 

[calsnowskier]

Fair enough. I wouldn't say 'great,' but that's a quibble. The big showdown at the airport seemed like they were playfighting in someone's rumpus room. It was for fun, and no-one was really in any danger.

I thought they might drive the point home very forcefully with Marty Kaan's demise, but they wimped out.

But yeah, I appreciated that they tried to make a movie that was ABOUT something, and not just stuff blowing up real good, to quote John Candy.

I'd think if we came up with a list, it'd be pretty lengthy, all the TV shows and movies that have wrestled with this general topic. Homeland etc.

Don't think it's too much of a limb to say that we'll be seeing them for another 25 years or so at least.

Of course. I am not trying to say this is the first movie to ever actually look at a legit topic. But this asked the question with really fun wrapping, which rarely, if ever happens. You typically either get guts OR fluff. Rarely both. This one had a lot of fluff (that is what I want from my CB movies, afterall), but it was not devoid of guts.

As for the airport fight...

Spoiler

Of course they were play fighting. They even addressed that in the movie at the time. These are family members fighting. Not mortal enemies. They still know each other's families. They still break bread with each other. They still love each other. They are just stuck in a situation where they disagree with each other.

 

[calsnowskier]

Dunno if anyone else noticed, but they made reference to the Slovakia accords and the movie events in the latest Agents of Shield.

One of the reasons I wanted to see the movie so early. The show always brings in the events of the movie right away (they did for Ultron and WS as well)

 

[Clayton]

Absolutely. I am Team Cap because I am a conservative Libertarian and am, at my most basic being, against handing control of myself to someone else. Therefore, Team Cap is the team I identify with the most.

My point is just that if you extrapolate Caps actions out to everyone, that is anarchy. Who is to determine who has to conform to societal norms and who does not? If the Avengers can act without oversight, why cant Hydra?

I abandoned the spoiler tag because this is more of a political post vs a movie-specific post.

I'm more of a moderate with slight leanings to libertarianism but I am dating a conservative and we both came out of the theater team Cap.

Its not really all that political imo and not analogous to classical liberalism. You are against handing control of yourself to someone else but that is what being an adult is about. Its finding your place as an individual in a sea of institutions. The Avengers don't represent the free market. They represent a monopoly. They are more analogous to drones or just the massive military advantage that America has over the rest of the world. If this was a market based analogy then demand for Vibranium would allow Joe Plumber to be equipped with Vibranium in case anyone broke into his house. Demand for Soldier serum would allow humans to instantly evolve.

The Avengers are tyrants relative to the free market.

 

[SHOTGUN]

Jurassic World. Pure crap.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Inherent Vice

Had never heard of it.

But I liked it.