The Karl Malone Thread

[MHSL82]

1. Good players don't necessarily make good coaches.

If you limit them in what you are asking them to do, then being a good player or just a regular coaching candidate has nothing to do with it. ANY coach good at anything besides coaching (scouting, agent, high school coach) doesn't necessarily make for good coaches. If your comment was in regard to Malone, I think if they have him help in the ways that he would be good, it would necessarily make him a good coach in that role. I know that's a bit of a circular reference or self-defining, but I wouldn't apply your comment to a part-time guy. I suppose a good player could have no clue what he was doing and not be good - just not any more than an average guy coming into coach.

2. A lot of times, they don't have the patience. The game came easy for them, and they think the players they are teaching aren't working hard enough.

3. The players being taught rarely are able to play like the great players they are learning from, anyways. Hakeem has taught several players over the past 11 years, and those players he taught picked up maybe 2% of his ability.

I think it's better though just from a mental side, and off-the-court lessons. Players can learn about preparation, attitude, eating right, how to deal with girlfriends or wives, and how to deal with money.

I like the move, but don't expect more than a 1-2% improvement from Kanter and Favors. Perhaps a change in attitude, if they required one. And just life lessons and friends, is what this is good for.

Agree. Earlier, I was just

 

[MHSL82]

Hyping up Hornacek as a coach a little too much. There is nothing appealing about him as a coach, other than the fact that Malone played with him.

He wasn't a highly sought assistant. 26 other teams wouldn't have hired him if they had a choice. Most wouldn't have even interviewed him.

Phoenix basically made a move to sell tickets to fans, who would think that "hey, he used to be a good player, maybe he'll make a good coach!" It was a cheap hire from a not highly sought after coach. If the Suns were serious about a coach, they would have hired someone other teams actually want too, or a veteran coach.

I'd say the same thing if Hornacek was hired by the Jazz. It was designed to sell hope. There were a lot of better options out there.

Hornacek wasn't highly regarded. He isn't going to come up with an innovative offense or defense, an will probably stick with something basic that fits his team.

Where's the hype? I looked over the thread and in other threads and didn't find any. Who's hyping him?

I'm not a Suns fan so what do I care? Oh, and I wasn't hyping the Hornacek hire. I was just happy for him. If I hyped it, I would have wished out loud for him to have gone to Milwaukee so that we didn't have to play his team so much.

Having said that, I won't say anything further to judge him before he coaches. I don't blame him for not being highly sought, highly regarded. He was sought, hired, and now will have a chance to show himself. Most teams aren't hiring, he was interviewed at a few that were last year and who knows if he turned down others and if he turned down some this year knowing Phoenix was interested.

He has to start somewhere and he did have some success independent of Malone and Stockton. He wasn't the best, but he held his own for the type of player he was (20 points in Phoenix, consistently 14+, great three point shooter. White. ) Not crossing my fingers, but my loyalty will remain with him, as long as we hire someone eventually over Corbin. I hope he does better than expected because better than expected doesn't mean beating us. I'm not going to bet on him, just rather see him coach than someone else I don't care about on a team I don't care about.

 

[MHSL82]

Man I'm still really enjoying the Pacers. If they lose tonight, I will be done watching bb for the summer. I'm just not into reruns.

I wish it were anyone else good against the Heat. If the Heat win, yeah, two-peat (repeat). If the Spurs win, even with less contribution than ever from Duncan, it'll be more press for his as the "best PF" when he's a scoring center. I don't care how you're used. He started that way because Robinson was the center. Robinson averaged more points and similar rebounds and was a center. More than Duncan until Duncan came and took it from him. Less points and similar rebounds and you're a PF? Height and blocks and defense is my key. Malone averaged more as a PF.

I'm sure Duncan did have more PF-like shots than Robinson, etc. but he'll always be a center to me.

 

[nuraman00]

According to the YouTube author, "Malone took exception to the manner in which Byron Scott separated Jazz guard John Crotty and Nets forward Kenyon Martin -- who were involved in a scrum for a loose ball on the floor (1:07-mark) . Malone responded by firmly guiding/pushing Scott back towards the New Jersey bench, resulting in Dick Bavetta, Jerry Sloan and the cavalry rushing in to separate everyone before the situation could escalate further.

The incident appeared to incite Malone - who erupted in the 3rd-qtr. In a 5-min stretch, Malone exploded for 12 points including a:
-facial dunk on Todd McCullough (1:59-mark)
-3pt-play over Keith Van Horn (2:33-mark)
-fastbreak hammer dunk (2:42-mark)
-3pt-play off pick&roll (3:00-mark)"

Malone was defending a teammate. Not sure if it was necessary, just saying it wasn't him defending himself after a coach thinking he did something dirty. With Malone, that could have been the reason. In this case, it wasn't.

Ok, after watching it:

* I wish we could have seen the whole incident, unedited. Instead, this clip only showed the 4-5 seconds of the confrontation. I wanted to see how the entire thing unfolded, even if it involved other players.

But judging from what I saw, I think Malone took more exception than necessary to what was happening.

* This was definitely a memorable game, because of what happened after the confrontation. I'll bet had I seen this game, I would refer to it in game threads, every now and then, when a confrontation happened.

* I wish there were some clips of Malone defending Kenyon Martin. Two of the most physical players in the league, I wanted to see how that would go.

One reason why I liked the Gordan Hayward clip against the Lakers (his 27 points against the Lakers a few years ago), is because not only did it show every Gordan scoring play, including FREE THROWS, but it also showed him defending Bryant. Sure, they only showed clips in which he got a steal on Bryant, but at least that's something. Maybe they could have made the clip even more perfect if they showed plays in which Gordan's help or on-the-ball defense helped directly or indirectly force the Lakers into a missed shot. But overall, it was a fairly thorough clip, and again, I liked that they showed him at the foul line. To me, free throws are part of the game, and I want to get into the moment even more by watching the player make or miss free throws. I wish this Malone clip had FTs and more defensive sequences too.


For completeness sake, which is what I desire, here are all the FT attempts, after the incident:

0:22.2 47-40 K. Malone misses free throw 1 of 2
0:22.2 47-40 Offensive rebound by Team
0:22.2 47-41 +1 K. Malone makes free throw 2 of 2


5:56.0 55-55 +2 K. Malone makes 2-pt shot from 3 ft (assist by Q. Lewis)
5:56.0 55-55 Shooting foul by T. MacCulloch
5:56.0 55-56 +1 K. Malone makes free throw 1 of 1


4:46.0 55-60 +2 K. Malone makes 2-pt shot at rim (assist by J. Stockton)
4:46.0 55-60 Shooting foul by T. MacCulloch
4:46.0 55-60 Utah full timeout
4:46.0 L. Harris enters the game for K. Kittles 55-60
4:46.0 55-61 +1 K. Malone makes free throw 1 of 1


11:17.0 Turnover by A. Williams (lost ball; steal by K. Malone) 66-65
11:14.0 66-65 Shooting foul by A. Williams
11:14.0 66-66 +1 K. Malone makes free throw 1 of 2
11:14.0 66-67 +1 K. Malone makes free throw 2 of 2



Oh, and I see the Nets won the game in overtime.


So Malone went 5/6 from the foul line after the incident.


* There weren't any Malone shovel passes to Stockton. I like Malone bounce passes to Stockton. I kept waiting for one to be shown. I got a little excited at the 5:00 mark when it looked like he'd have an assist, to Stockton, but Malone was used only to reposition the screen, and the ball came back to him.

If I was making my personal highlights clip, with all of my favorite plays, regardless of whether they were from the same game, I'd include more of the last two bullet points. This game could have been perfect if it had sequences with more of these, haha.

 

[nuraman00]

Based on the video, Scott has a right to dislike Malone, he was guilty, too. I can't say he's more or less guilty, because I don't know what was said or done, the video doesn't show it. He likely responded to something Scott said, but take for instance, if what Scott had said was the heartless comment and that sparked it, Scott can't be excused from the heartless comment because that would have come before the heat of the confrontation. But just as he can dislike Malone, I have a right to dislike Scott and not want him as our coach. His comments about coat-tail riding came in the press conference.

So you're sure Scott called Malone heartless in the confrontation? I couldn't tell what Scott said, during the confrontation. I couldn't hear anything that was said.

And Scott called Malone a coat tail rider in the press conference after that game?

 

[MHSL82]

Oh, if anyone not familiar with my references: I am not making my opinion based upon how Duncan looks or insinuating that that is the reason for his praise. My comments stem from a long thread I had earlier with Nuraman on how Duncan does help the Spurs a lot, but even when he doesn't produce numbers, people fill in the gaps to make him seem like he's the reason for everything. 20 and 11 does not beat 25 and 10. But apparently it does to many. That 20 and 11 will go down the next few years. So will his blocks and defense.

If Duncan plays the next 281 games the same way he's played the last 281 games (four seasons - hasn't played a full 82), he will then average 19.4 points and 10.9 rebounds in 1461 games. Malone averaged 25 points and 10.1 rebounds in 1476 games - one season in which he was the third scorer due to Shaq and Kobe. 51.6% to 50.7% shooting, Malone advantage.

His blocks? Well, that's a center thing, not a power forward thing. I won't argue his greatness center-wise. If people just called him a center, I would have no qualms over anything. But if you are claimed to be used as a PF and produce less, then I will say you are not as great. Duncan's has had more help. Put Malone on those teams and I think he'd have a few rings, even without Stockton.

All my opinion of course.

 

[nuraman00]

When a team wins the conference finals, or NBA Finals, sometimes there's a special all-time great, that presents the conference finals trophy or NBA Finals trophy to the winning team.

For example, Alonzo Mourning (Heat) and George "Iceman" Gervin (Spurs) did it for this year's Finalists during the conference finals.

Sometimes it can just be a network studio host, such as Stuart Scott (ESPN) or Ernie Johnson (TNT).

When the Jazz win the conference finals, who will be the special trophy presenter?

Who would you like to see do it?

I think Dantley and Malone are the most obvious picks. If Hornacek isn't working for another team, I could see it being him too. Stockton doesn't seem to like this sort of attention-getting moment, so I think he is less likely.

Sloan is another good pick. Actually, I think Sloan is the leading candidate now.

Sometimes it can be someone outside the organization that presents it (such as Bill Russell), but I think there's too much history with the Jazz for someone not tied to the Jazz to do it.

I don't think it will be Maravich, since he was more associated with the New Orleans Jazz.

 

[MHSL82]

When a team wins the conference finals, or NBA Finals, sometimes there's a special all-time great, that presents the conference finals trophy or NBA Finals trophy to the winning team.

For example, Alonzo Mourning (Heat) and George "Iceman" Gervin (Spurs) did it for this year's Finalists during the conference finals.

Sometimes it can just be a network studio host, such as Stuart Scott (ESPN) or Ernie Johnson (TNT).

When the Jazz win the conference finals, who will be the special trophy presenter?

Who would you like to see do it?

I think Dantley and Malone are the most obvious picks. If Hornacek isn't working for another team, I could see it being him too. Stockton doesn't seem to like this sort of attention-getting moment, so I think he is less likely.

Sloan is another good pick. Actually, I think Sloan is the leading candidate now.

Sometimes it can be someone outside the organization that presents it (such as Bill Russell), but I think there's too much history with the Jazz for someone not tied to the Jazz to do it.

I don't think it will be Maravich, since he was more associated with the New Orleans Jazz.

I'd hope it wouldn't be Maravich. He died during a pickup game decades ago. But robots like you don't see the distinction or significance of dead/alive, so I don't blame you. I'd imagine, but don't know because I am not a robot or computer like you, that it would take some time to get used to humans and fully assimilate. These must-be-breathing, heart-must-be-beating traditions are low on the priorities of customs one such as yourself would learn. I know because I read this in a book. (I actually did have a neurological class called, "Brains, Minds, and Machines" but it was light on the machines part and brains/minds are basically the same if not the same thing and the professor said the mind was a machine; he must have been talking about you.)

 

[MHSL82]

Sup bros.

I am glad Kidd retired, if he spent 2-3 more good years in NBA he could have got pretty close to Stockton's records. Actually I am pointing out, Jason Kidd is only guy who could ever beat those records, and now it is official, Stockton's records will never be beaten, Kidd will always be #2 in Total Assists and Steals by a large margin! Nash is still going but, he needs 5,500 assists, which ain't happening.

Welcome aboard! Feel free to introduce yourself on the ESPN/CBS Members: Welcome Aboard! thread.

I am big on assists for PGs but even bigger on Stockton keeping his records. Since he didn't win a championship, that's the one thing he has to be given at least part of his due.

Incidentally, Stockton is writing an autobiography to be released on October 28th. He says that despite the fact that the two Finals appearances were a highlight of his career, he didn't have much to say about it because he lost. Also, he talked about the decision to retire and that was it was based upon teammates disagreement. They felt Stockon and Malone were getting special treatment. It was a worry that he had never worried about before. The level of aches and pains were new, too. He said the way that he responded to those challenges, showed that it was the time to go.

 

[MHSL82]

Matt, what kind of timeline do you put on us winning the trades overall? Next year with good draft use? Two years, when all the young guys have been given major minutes? What do you think of Corbin as coach? Would you rather have Hornacek? (Out of those two. Nuraman would say, "neither" despite him knowing full well that that wasn't an option.) I don't have much confidence in Corbin, but he has one and a half year's experience and Hornacek is a newbie with little assistant coaching.

What are your thoughts on Malone and Sloan? I think I know a bit from your first post on Stockton.

 

[MHSL82]

Cool story, Cousins. Turns out this "Nobody" has been working pretty hard this summer.

Genessy: Derrick Favors said this is his first Vegas trip since he turned 21 last year. But don't expect him to tear up Sin City. He's in work mode.

Oram: First time I’ve seen Favors since season ended. Looks much bigger. Has been working out with Karl Malone for a month. Favors said his summer workouts have been about three hours a day. Hour each of weights, skills, conditioning. Asked Derrick Favors where he slots in next to Enes Kanter: “I’m a 4 man. I’m a starting 4, a backup 5.”

Oram: First time I’ve seen Favors since season ended. Looks much bigger. Has been working out with Karl Malone for a month. Favors said Malone tries to outwork him, but that they don't keep score in 1-on-1. Derrick did win a game of horse, though, he said.

Genessy: Derrick Favors said he's learned "mostly mental" aspects of basketball from Karl Malone in their occasional workouts.

Ask you can tell #2 is very Favors' centric. Derrick Favors appears to have taken the responsibility of being a leader on the floor this offseason. He has worked hard with Karl Malone. He is working hard in USA scrimmages. He recognizes that his basketball IQ must improve in order to take his game to the next level. He is already an athletic freak at the 4 position. Once his experience and basketball IQ catches up to his athleticism he will be a sight to behold. All in all, very excited news to hear about Derrick Favors.

 

[nuraman00]

Oram: First time I’ve seen Favors since season ended. Looks much bigger. Has been working out with Karl Malone for a month. Favors said his summer workouts have been about three hours a day. Hour each of weights, skills, conditioning.

I'll throw in my yearly disclaimer about training camp stories. Don't know if I've posted them on here, before.

I say this every year, but my general philosophy on weight changes and training camp stories is this. Every team has the following stories during training camp, every year (with a few contributed by others):


1) Player A has gained 20 lbs. and is now stronger than an ox! Look how much tougher he is.


2) Player B has lost 25 lbs. and is now faster than a cheetah! Look how quick and agile he is.


3) Player C is shooting 80% on practice 3-point shots! He is going to burn the nets down next year.

4) This is the hardest training camp ever

5) Player X is in the best shape he's been in Y years


6) The whole team is in the best shape ever!



7) Player D is a few pounds heavier than we'd like him to be, but he'll be ready when the season starts.


8) Player E has been working out all summer but just needs to get into game shape.


9) Player F is in game shape but just needs to get his timing back.




Weight changes, however, don't really change how they play the game. If a guy didn't have the post moves before, than he's not going to have them after the weight change. Maybe it will help make things a little easier, but not too much.

Even 3-point shooting, jumper shooting, or FT shooting, is taken with some context. They're in an empty gym with no defender. Or in the FT case, there isn't the pressure of an in-game score.

Now, with some young players, perhaps they didn't play much their first year or two, so conditioning, stamina might play a role, as well as them figuring out where on the floor their game is suited for.

But in general, I'm more interested to read in practicing a skillset or repetition of drills, than to read about weight changes or someone shooting jumpers in an empty gym, especially without a coach.

In general, preseason isn't interesting to me, I just wait for the above storylines to play themselves out. The names may change, but it's all the same, every year, good team or bad.

 

[MHSL82]

The Downbeat #1101: The Back to School Edition

By Yucca Man  @YuccaManHoops on Jul 25 2013, 5:00a 128

Karl Malone Day, Ian Clark and the Jazz bench, USA Men's Select Team, and Back to School goals. It's all here in today's Downbeat. It's today's Downbeat (and for some reason seems important to note the number of the DB is also binary for 11)

Utah celebrated Pioneer Day yesterday. Jazzdom celebrated Karl Malone Day in honor of the Mailman's 50th Birthday. The two, of course, are tied together forever (from a Deseret News article about Karl Malone's retirement in 2003)*:

The Karl Malone era for the Utah Jazz began in 1985 when the "city of Utah" threw a birthday parade for him, disguised as a Days of '47 celebration.
​

Our own Basketball John (@5kl) was at Karl's car dealership, tweeting to the world the inside scoop:

And the one and only Mizuho Nishio did what he does best: let Jazzmen new and old know exactly how much we fans enjoy them:

Karl Malone wasn't the only Jazzman making news yesterday. Our newest member of the team was signed: Las Vegas Summer League Finals MVP, Ian Clark.

As Clark (our SLC Dunk writer) said about Clark (the 22-year-old SG): we now have a Finals MVP on the team!

Exactly one week ago, I asked you all to list any remaining Free Agents that you would like the Jazz to find for the 13th spot on the roster. I don't think anyone thought of Ian Clark ... and today, I expect most of us are a bit excited about this move. It's about as close to a "Slam Dunk 13th Man on the Team" signing as you can get.

He certainly shot the lights out in college last year (54% FG, 46% from three — as a SG!). Who knows if it will translate to his NBA career, but I think we're all excited to see what he can do. Considering Brandon Rush is returning from a ruptured ACL injury, I think Clark will have at least a few opportunities to prove whether he can make it as an NBA player.

A great opportunity for him.

Ian Clark joining the team has got me looking a lot at the likely bench this year. At first glance, it has seemed really weak. But the more I look, the more I find myself feeling optimistic that there are at least a couple high-quality guys there.

I mentioned Clark's terrific shooting in college. He was also his conference defensive player of the year. Brandon Rush was a strong defender and rebounder, and his scoring became crazy-efficient his last full season. Jeremy Evans, of course, exists primarily to screw up all stats. He's shot over 60% every season. With the requisite "sample size alert", in his limited time he has rebounded well, blocked shots, and gotten steals. Rudy Gobert may be a year or two away from having an offensive game that doesn't scare coaches ... but he will have a noticeable defensive impact every minute he plays.

The odds are long that everybody works out and proves to be an effective player ... but the more I look, the more I think at least one or two of these guys prove to be keepers.

But we all know I'm bleeding optimism about this season.

Derrick Favors and Gordon Hayward play in a televised USA Men's Select Team Showcase today (NBA TV — 9:00 p.m. EDT, 7:00 p.m. MDT). Both our guys are on the same team (the Blue Team).
Of course, there's been a lot of talk about our guys and how they're impressing—particularly Hayward.

From Sekou Smith's Hang Time Blog:

Hayward’s looked more like the college star he was at Butler during his time here this week than he has the role player he was asked to be in his first three seasons in the league. His ballhandling, slashing and athleticism have been on full display. He’s more than held his own on defense, too, sticking out in this talented crowd on both ends regularly.
"That’s what you love about things like this," said Favors, who will team up with Hayward on the Blue team in Thursday night’s intrasquad showcase at UNLV’s Thomas & Mack Center. "I know how good he is. I’ve seen him do this stuff in practice every day. But it’s been funny to talk to some of these other guys and see how impressed they are with Gordon this week."
​

In the spirit of this, I present you some "that's so Derrick Favors" quotes about being a leader this upcoming season (from Jody Genessey's Twitter):

If you think "he's multi-talented, man." is going to be my new Game Thread meme whenever Favors does something freaking awesome, you are 100% correct. But there will also be plenty of "There's lots of stuff he can do." and "two other people can be leading scorers." in the threads. I'm so ready to pull out that last one when the team scores 125 points in a blowout win.

And please note the periods. Any Derrick Favors meme has to end in a period. The more amazing the athletic feat, the more important the period. Exclamation marks totally betray the soul behind our PF/C.
And finally, Jody explains why exactly the Jazz may not be terrible:

Whether Hayward and Derrick become superstars, stars, or simply effective players remains to be seen. But right now they believe in themselves, and so do I.

My school is changing to a year-round schedule this year, so for me the first day of school is today. By the time many of you read this, I will likely have already given out my first "stop talking and pay attention NOW" look of the year.

Anyway, it has me thinking about our guys on the team today, and what I'd love to see them learn this year. Not a skill I'd like to see them perfect or work on, but something brand new to bring to the team. Here's my list:

Derrick Favors — How to wear a sweet afro. Seriously, is there anything in the universe that could beat this look?



Gordon Hayward — Trolling and talking smack to prominent front row fans - Spike Lee, Jack Nicholson, Mark Cuban, etc. Can you imagine Hayward as the new Reggie Miller?

Enes Kanter — A Tim Duncan bank shot (preferably without holding the ball for 10 seconds first ... seriously, work on that Kanter).

Alec Burks — A Tinsley-esque nutmeg. Just imagine him pulling it off, then one of his crazy, acrobatic and-one's, all with his trademark non-chalance and "whatever, I do that all the time" attitude.

Marvin Williams — Any signature something that makes his presence known when he's in the game.

Jeremy Evans — The Lakers vs. Celtics Tom Chambers double-clutch dunk from the three-point line.

*To anyone who tries to correct me and claim that Malone didn't retire in 2003, you are simply wrong. He retired when he left the Jazz. The End.

 

[MHSL82]

Karl's 50th Birthday Cake

 

[MHSL82]

Not sure if you all know the story, but Utah's biggest state holiday is when who we call the Pioneers, came to Utah on July 24th. That happens to also be Malone's birthday. Larry Miller, the Jazz owner, a bit of a jokester, told Malone, who didn't know of the holiday, that they were celebrating his birthday. Malone fell for it hard and was very touched in how this city would do such a thing, and called his mom to tell her. He also had said on draft day that he was "excited to come to the state of Salt Lake City." When he was lowballed in contract negotiations, he said that he had played his last game in a Jazz jersey - when he got the contract signed, he said that he changed his mind and did a "360" (instead of a 180).

I always say I've done a 540 whenever I change my mind.

 

[MHSL82]

Malone spoke to this 94 year old Jazz fan for 20 minutes.

 

[MHSL82]

Utah Jazz Superstar Karl Malone turns 50 Years old today! Happy Birthday Karl!

By AllThatAmar  @AllThatAmar on Jul 24 2013, 2:33p 15

It's not a big secret that I, a non-LDS guy who was born in Canada and lived in Los Angeles during the Kareem/Earvin Johnson "Showtime Era", would not be a Utah Jazz fan if it wasn't for Karl Malone. Right now I get to write about the Jazz every day on the most popular destination for Jazz fans. I'm really lucky because I grew up all over the world where Utah Jazz fans were not. It's interesting. But not as interesting as Karl Malone is.

And today is his 50th Birthday. Love him or hate love him, Karl Malone is without doubt the greatest power forward of all-time. He has the heart of a champion and has more accolades than I have blog posts. The problem is that on the court his record appears a little unfinished. He didn't get a title, despite going to the NBA Finals three times. He's not the first all-time in scoring, he's second. He didn't get to start as many All-Star games as he should have, and even once had to play through a lockout shortened season where they even got rid of the All-Star game (so he should have had at least one more). For many they look at Karl Malone's career as a product of this incompleteness. One more made free throw. One less turn over. One more playoff game. One fewer injury. It's a reductionalist point of view to see him as a consequence of incompleteness.

It's just not how I see him.

I see him as the baddest mofo out there, who took the league by storm, put the pretenders in their place, and powered a great number of crappy rosters to multiple 50 win seasons, and 5 Western Conference Finals in 7 years. He was great because of his internal motivation, and he was great because the Utah Jazz franchise took a chance on him, and believed in him that they played him over 30 mpg from the get go -- and then the very next season got rid of their former franchise corner stone to make sure he had enough room to flourish. (How many 30 ppg seasons did big Al Jefferson have? Was it zero? How many did Adrian Dantley have? Was it 5 out of 6 years in a row before Karl Malone arrived? Yes.)

Numerically Karl Malone is without peer.

• 4th All-time in games played
• 2nd All-time in minutes played
• 2nd All-time in Field goals made
• 2nd All-time in Field goals attempted
• 1st All-time in Free throws made
• 1st All-time in Free throws attempted
• 14th All-time in Offensive Rebounds
• 2nd All-time in Defensive Rebounds
• 7th All-time in Total Rebounds
• 48th All-time in Assists
• 11th All-time in Steals
• 61st All-time in Blocks
• and, yes, 2nd All-time in total points scored

His career (54,852 regular season minutes) averages of 25.0 PPG, 10.1 RPG, 3.6 APG, 1.4 SPG, and 0.8 BPG puts him not only at the head of the class for all power forwards ever, but he's in that God-tier All-Time for all NBA players. His advanced stats (like being #14 All-Time in cumulative PER or #3 All-Time in Win Shares) . (NSFW)


His trophy chest is pretty full even without a championship ring already, with being an All-Star 14 times, All-NBA 14 times, All-NBA Defense 4 times, 2 All-Star Game MVPs, 2 NBA MVPs, and 2 Gold Medals (would have been 3 Gold Medals, so being Top 12 in the USA for over 12+ years, but he declined in 2000 because his mother just passed away).

The Hall of Famer didn't win Rookie of the Year (Ewing did), but we all know who had a better career -- even if all Karl did was make the All-Rookie team back then. (He still played 8,530 mins in his first three seasons though - if only he came off the bench for three years behind a crappy player he could have really been something instead, right David Locke?)

Malone's charity work deserves a whole website to document, not just a part of one post on a basketball themed blog. He was known for scoring on the court (and honestly, with 7 kids off of it too), but made some huge assists as a civilian. The biggest had to be more than just writing a check after Hurricane Katrina came by, and he defied the US Government itself to go into unsecured areas and do manual labor for weeks on his own dime.

I love Karl Malone. It was Magic and Kareem who helped me fall in love with the NBA. But it was Karl who made me fall in love with the Jazz. Thank you Karl for so much, more than half of my life has been influenced by the ups and downs of the team you raised to prominence.

You taught me that there is no substitute for hard work, and that if you develop consistency, in time your talents will shine brightest among your peers.

 

[MHSL82]

Not sure if you all know the story, but Utah's biggest state holiday is when who we call the Pioneers, came to Utah on July 24th. That happens to also be Malone's birthday. Larry Miller, the Jazz owner, a bit of a jokester, told Malone, who didn't know of the holiday, that they were celebrating his birthday. Malone fell for it hard and was very touched in how this city would do such a thing, and called his mom to tell her. He also had said on draft day that he was "excited to come to the state of Salt Lake City." When he was lowballed in contract negotiations, he said that he had played his last game in a Jazz jersey - when he got the contract signed, he said that he changed his mind and did a "360" (instead of a 180).

I always say I've done a 540 whenever I change my mind.

The Downbeat #1100: The Pioneer Day Edition

By Shums  @theshums on Jul 24 2013, 7:00a 10

Karl Malone's 50th birthday, Jazz players at USA camp, SLC Dunk Community posts, wrasslin' tweets, and more.

Yep, it's time for that weird Utah holiday again. (For Jazz fans who live outside of Utah, July 24 is a statewide holiday commemorating the entry of the Mormon pioneers into the Salt Lake Valley. Google it or something.)

I get the day off myself as an employee at a state institution, so I'm keeping this short and writing it ahead of time. (I fervently hope to be sleeping in while you're reading this.)

This Pioneer Day is special, though, because it's Karl Malone's 50th birthday. (And it's extremely serendipitous -- or a sign of a higher power, take your pick -- that the Mailman was drafted by a team in a state where his birthday was already a holiday.)

Karl was and is a pioneer for the Utah Jazz in a lot of ways. He led the team to places it had never been. He established a legacy of hard work and determination that still defines the franchise. And now he's helping to show Derrick Favors and others the way.

This profile from Steve Luhm is an amazing reminder of the man Karl was, is, and always will be. A sampling:

"I always had a suspicion, at some point, I'd be back involved with some organization," Malone said. "When I stepped back on the floor, I wanted to look like a coach. I wanted to look like I belonged. I thought it might help the young guys listen to me."
Yes, Malone is the same guy who has always used the fear of failure as a motivational tool.
"I don't want to disappoint my family, my real fans or myself," he said. "... I've always wanted to prove something to Karl Malone and I still do."
​

If ever there were an NBA basketball player who could be called a pioneer, it's Karl Malone. Happy 50th, Mailman.

As the summer wears on, I keep fearing that there won't be enough news to fill these Downbeats. But we've been blessed -- just as Summer League ends, USA Basketball camp begins. And that means we get to see Gordon Hayward and Derrick Favors compete with other young NBA stars in a different sort of setting.

I haven't gotten to watch any of the camp scrimmages yet, but fortunately, that's what Twitter is for:

Warms my heart, it does. I'm really looking forward to seeing the bond between our young players manifest itself on the court. Check out this story from Jody for more on that.

As usual on Wednesdays, the third item in the Downbeat is devoted to the SLC Dunk community. Here are a few FanPosts from the past week that are worth your time:
-- Mykroberts gives his take on the ever-popular issue of tanking:

I think it is clear that the Jazz FO is actively trying to be bad (how I define tanking) by looking at some of the available deals this offseason. There were lots of 2 year deals, which have no real impact on extending Jazz draft picks (even a couple 3 year days would probably be manageable). I really believe that if the Jazz had acquired Sap/DMC/Ridnour for similar deals (or even at a 20% premium) the young guys could be BETTER developed with some moderately functional lineups. Throwing a high quantity of garbage minutes at players does not guarantee development - lots of talent languishes on bad organizations (Sac).
​

-- mitchdowd24 crunches some numbers to see who might be taking the shots for the Jazz next season:

If we consider that Mo and Tinsley are gone, then in total from all players we are losing 4089 shots out of 6710 shots taken (League average of 6720 fga) . Remaining members shot a collective of 2621 fg attempts last year ( not including new players). 61 % of our shot taken last year is gone. On average teams take about 82 fg a game. That means we have 50 more shots a game that will be going to our new lineup. I REPEAT 50 SHOTS A GAME. Question is not who is going to score but who is going to shoot.
​

-- jazz_FM looks at the shot-creation issue from a different angle:

In conclusion, the Jazz really don't have any player that I see as being a great shot creator. So while I don't think Utah will have the league's worst offense, I am more than a little skeptical that they'll manage a league average offense with the personnel they have right now. In fact, the only positive I really see is that Utah still runs something of the flex offense, which is designed to create shots specifically without a top-of-the-line off-the-dribble player. But, hey, I've always been a pessimist, so hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised at the end of next year (unless, of course, tanking).
​

-- KateJourdan mourns the absence (for this year, anyway) of Raul Neto and tries to make peace:

I want to rant and rave at those who told me on twitter. I want to scream back at the excellent newspaper reporters we have covering the Jazz, that the right questions weren't asked, and nobody's final answer is really on the line here. I wanted to walk up to Dennis Lindsey and empty a spray bottle of cheese in his face, but none of that would get me to the acceptance I would have to swallow. (Yea I know, Pop Rocks) So, I decided to try to hide the ranting and raving I did at home and the smashed pillows, and try to rationalize it from a business perspective.
​

Go check 'em all out. And if you see a post worth spotlighting, hit me up on Twitter or email.

John Lucas III: The Lucasening (I'm going to keep making that joke until it becomes funny or Amar makes me stop) was officially introduced this week, and...well, despite myself and all statistical indications...I kinda liked his interviews. Moni, as usual, has the transcripts:

But nah, I don't feel like we're rebuilding. All the guys that's here now been in the league for a couple years. They know what it takes to win. We got a couple guys coming in that been in the league for years that knows how to get there, that played in big games or big situations. So I don't look at it as a rebuilding year. I just look at it as a new beginning.
​

Lucas also talked a lot about mentoring Trey Burke and passing on his knowledge to the rookie. I'm not exactly sure how much knowledge Lucas has or how that will translate on the court, but he IS the son of an NBA coach and really sounded like a smart dude in his interviews. So I'm a bit less skeptical of his presence on the team than I was.

I probably don't seem the type, but I'm something of a closet WWE fan. I was entertaining myself yesterday by trying to come up with names for wrestling moves that local athletes might use, and my Twitter timeline got in on the act. Given Karl Malone's connection with "wrasslin'," I feel like this is an appropriate venue:

 

[MHSL82]

Again, the post above is missing the twitter inserts. Too much work to embed them all. Click on the link, the website's authors deserve it.

 

[nuraman00]

And today is his 50th Birthday. Love him or hate love him,

Why would you hate Karl Malone? He was the definition of NBA Jam T.E.