The case for firing RR and staff

[Rowdy]

Call it a hunch Bovie...history observation

And No, like you, I'm excited to see this years playoff meltdown for my team. Kicker came outta no where. Should be fun.

Brightside: least Joy has game discussing politics. You should keep looking.

You got one thing right. I’m excited to see the niners crush the girls this weekend

 

[j_y19]

You as well
Play to your strengths. Post about politics, this football topic ain't working for you.

You guys still make Dallas football fans not look so bad.

Why is that. What did I state that was unreasonable?

 

[skinsdad62]

You are starting to convince me on Fields. However, rumor is that the Colts are offering a King's ransom for him apparently.

The new team president for the bears doesn’t seem inclined to want to get rid of fields

 

[skinsdad62]

oh no. i had them pegged as a .500 team at best maybe a 9 win team if things got right. I'm with you and duke, this team needs more to compete and i don't see things getting better until maybe 24 or 25 with a new owner and management in place.

I had them as a 7-9 win team until dean tried to railroad me into 8 . With a good draft we could be a solid 9 win team provided injuries and off field issues don’t throw and infected penis into us

 

[Stymietee]

The new team president for the bears doesn’t seem inclined to want to get rid of fields

Agreed! His public statements appear to be more in line with those who say that they are more likely to trade the #1 pick instead of Fields. I would still inquire, perhaps more than a few times.

 

[gkekoa]

Agreed! His public statements appear to be more in line with those who say that they are more likely to trade the #1 pick instead of Fields. I would still inquire, perhaps more than a few times.

If I am the Bears, I definitely trade the pick. I like Fields as much as any QB in this draft. They may get a king’s ransom for that pick too.

 

[Breed]

Let me ask you this in relation to this... If YOU, Breed, as the owner (or head coach) invested in a QB as this team did and knew that he didn't have the polished skills to protect himself, would you just let him go or continue with that investment by properly training him to protect himself before putting him out against live fire?

If I had invested what the Skins did to acquire Griffin I would hope the player himself would realize the need to protect himself. But if he didn't than yes, I would make a concerted effort to get him to see the benefits to both himself n the team by protecting himself. And even with that said. The main responsible party for protecting a player is the player himself. As a HC or an owner can't play the game for them.

Next, if YOU, Breed, as owner or (responsible head coach, insist upon not playing your significant investment by allowing him to play (coming back too soon) when you knew that he wasn't ready to go?

One other thing, if you Breed as owner or head coach, want your men playing on a proven, dangerous field like FedEx? What would you do about it?

In a perfect world the answers to those questions would be no I wouldn't let a player play if I knew he wasn't ready. Or let my team play on a field as shitty as Fed Ex habitually seemed to be. But here in the real world, and I can't say I fully understand it. Owners n HCs allow, even insist that players play hurt all the time. Some players themselves insist upon playing hurt far various reasons. And as far as the field issue goes. I believe that the week before the Skins/Hawks playoff game. There was a music concert held at Fed Ex. Unless an owner or some other private citizen personally pays for the stadium to be built themself. They can't dictate what can n can't go on at a stadium. And in the interest of saving money. Astro turf became a staple at numerous fields. And still, some shit called slit film turf is being used at 6 stadiums including at MetLife which has been notorious for years of causing injuries to players. Some players themselves even preferred playing on astro turf or surfaces faster than grass.

Now in one sense QBs not wanting to use the rules to their advantage is honorable. As fans we've all bemoaned when a team was given a 1st down on some 3rd n long that the defense played perfectly. Due to the hand of a defensive player hitting a QB's helmet. That in no way caused any injury, pain or discomfort to said QB. I'm also not a fan of QBs throwing tantrums and hissy fits trying to goad refs into throwing a flag (hi Tom Brady) But I do understand the rationale behind protecting QBs. So while that hand hitting the helmet shit is bullshit. Not being to hit a QB who's giving himself up cuz its a penalty is a solid rule imo. Griffin rarely gave himself up, even after not giving himself up led to a concussion and a strained knee which caused him to miss 2 games his rookie year, with the hurt knee possibly playing into being injured by the field in the playoffs.

Griffin isn't the first QB that refused to use the rules to his advantage. Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Mike Vick, Big Ben and others all continued to play in the manner that they did even after getting hurt/dinged up multiple times. The toll caught up to all of em though. Even Cam's big ass eventually succumbed to the wear n tear of taking hit after hit. So I'm not gonna say Griffin was dumb for playing the way he did. As I said earlier, in a way, its admirable, but its not likely conducive to playing as long as one could play if they played they used the rules to protect themself.

 

[Sportster 72]

Griffin's biggest problem was Griffin. Guys used to play with injuries back when I was young so I am not going to give him a hard time for that. After he got hurt he wanted to play a style of game he couldn't play. He did not have drop back QB skills. Hell he was in Baltimore so I am sure he had good coaching there and the results weren't there.

 

[Stymietee]

If I had invested what the Skins did to acquire Griffin I would hope the player himself would realize the need to protect himself. But if he didn't than yes, I would make a concerted effort to get him to see the benefits to both himself n the team by protecting himself. And even with that said. The main responsible party for protecting a player is the player himself. As a HC or an owner can't play the game for them.

In a perfect world the answers to those questions would be no I wouldn't let a player play if I knew he wasn't ready. Or let my team play on a field as shitty as Fed Ex habitually seemed to be. But here in the real world, and I can't say I fully understand it. Owners n HCs allow, even insist that players play hurt all the time. Some players themselves insist upon playing hurt far various reasons. And as far as the field issue goes. I believe that the week before the Skins/Hawks playoff game. There was a music concert held at Fed Ex. Unless an owner or some other private citizen personally pays for the stadium to be built themself. They can't dictate what can n can't go on at a stadium. And in the interest of saving money. Astro turf became a staple at numerous fields. And still, some shit called slit film turf is being used at 6 stadiums including at MetLife which has been notorious for years of causing injuries to players. Some players themselves even preferred playing on astro turf or surfaces faster than grass.

Now in one sense QBs not wanting to use the rules to their advantage is honorable. As fans we've all bemoaned when a team was given a 1st down on some 3rd n long that the defense played perfectly. Due to the hand of a defensive player hitting a QB's helmet. That in no way caused any injury, pain or discomfort to said QB. I'm also not a fan of QBs throwing tantrums and hissy fits trying to goad refs into throwing a flag (hi Tom Brady) But I do understand the rationale behind protecting QBs. So while that hand hitting the helmet shit is bullshit. Not being to hit a QB who's giving himself up cuz its a penalty is a solid rule imo. Griffin rarely gave himself up, even after not giving himself up led to a concussion and a strained knee which caused him to miss 2 games his rookie year, with the hurt knee possibly playing into being injured by the field in the playoffs.

Griffin isn't the first QB that refused to use the rules to his advantage. Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Mike Vick, Big Ben and others all continued to play in the manner that they did even after getting hurt/dinged up multiple times. The toll caught up to all of em though. Even Cam's big ass eventually succumbed to the wear n tear of taking hit after hit. So I'm not gonna say Griffin was dumb for playing the way he did. As I said earlier, in a way, its admirable, but its not likely conducive to playing as long as one could play if they played they used the rules to protect themself.

OK, but as investments go, I know that there were a lot of responsible decisions not made with respect to Griffin. Never would I have allowed him to play for at least a year after trading for him. I sit his behind in the same way that Theesman (sp) sat and for two reasons.

1. to get his overblown ego in check.

2. Basically to see what he was about and if he had the necessary tools (sliding) to actually protect himself, then hiring a professional baseball coach to train him appropriately.

Beyond that...

1. Injuries happen and it's my organization so even after being injured, I would have never allowed him to dictate his return, nor btw; how he wanted to play because...

2. I would have elevated Mike Shanahan to an office position and replaced him with his son who knew how to best use Griffin. (Take note of Harbaugh and Lamar)

3. Griffin WAS DUMB in the way that he played, but he knew no other way to do it. That is why you hire honest-to-goodness professional people to show him how to do it better and in a manner that elevates and prolongs his career. Why?? well, because that was a lot of capital to spend on someone who was reckless, so full of youthful hubris, and on an arc to set my team back because nobody wanted to be the adult in the building.

4. Now, some will want to say that this is all revisionist history by me, but there's NOTHING that I wrote today that wasn't written and posted on this board in real time back then.

 

[Breed]

OK, but as investments go, I know that there were a lot of responsible decisions not made with respect to Griffin. Never would I have allowed him to play for at least a year after trading for him. I sit his behind in the same way that Theesman (sp) sat and for two reasons.

1. to get his overblown ego in check.

2. Basically to see what he was about and if he had the necessary tools (sliding) to actually protect himself, then hiring a professional baseball coach to train him appropriately.

Beyond that...

1. Injuries happen and it's my organization so even after being injured, I would have never allowed him to dictate his return, nor btw; how he wanted to play because...

2. I would have elevated Mike Shanahan to an office position and replaced him with his son who knew how to best use Griffin. (Take note of Harbaugh and Lamar)

3. Griffin WAS DUMB in the way that he played, but he knew no other way to do it. That is why you hire honest-to-goodness professional people to show him how to do it better and in a manner that elevates and prolongs his career. Why?? well, because that was a lot of capital to spend on someone who was reckless, so full of youthful hubris, and on an arc to set my team back because nobody wanted to be the adult in the building.

4. Now, some will want to say that this is all revisionist history by me, but there's NOTHING that I wrote today that wasn't written and posted on this board in real time back then.

Sitting Griffin would've been the better strategy in hindsight. If it were possible, but I'd bet all the money I've ever made that Snyder wasn't gonna go for that. Snyder was the major impediment to Griffin progressing into a more rounded, better suited for the NFL type player. Everything that needed to be coached out of Griffin or at least toned down. Was instead fed to him by Snyder. The thing that hurt Griffin most was that he was personally handpicked by Snyder. Giving up what the Skins did to get him n being the 2nd pick in the draft killed any possibility for him to sit n learn. Sitting Griffin wouldn't have provided the splash that Snyder was looking to create when he drafted Griffin.

 

[Sportster 72]

Sitting Griffin would've been the better strategy in hindsight. If it were possible, but I'd bet all the money I've ever made that Snyder wasn't gonna go for that. Snyder was the major impediment to Griffin progressing into a more rounded, better suited for the NFL type player. Everything that needed to be coached out of Griffin or at least toned down. Was instead fed to him by Snyder. The thing that hurt Griffin most was that he was personally handpicked by Snyder. Giving up what the Skins did to get him n being the 2nd pick in the draft killed any possibility for him to sit n learn. Sitting Griffin wouldn't have provided the splash that Snyder was looking to create when he drafted Griffin.

Yes, I would agree with that. Snyder was an enabler for some players here in Washington such as Arrington and Portis. He did more harm than good.

 

[skinsdad62]

I don’t think RG3 took coaching well

 

[Stymietee]

Sitting Griffin would've been the better strategy in hindsight. If it were possible, but I'd bet all the money I've ever made that Snyder wasn't gonna go for that. Snyder was the major impediment to Griffin progressing into a more rounded, better suited for the NFL type player. Everything that needed to be coached out of Griffin or at least toned down. Was instead fed to him by Snyder. The thing that hurt Griffin most was that he was personally handpicked by Snyder. Giving up what the Skins did to get him n being the 2nd pick in the draft killed any possibility for him to sit n learn. Sitting Griffin wouldn't have provided the splash that Snyder was looking to create when he drafted Griffin.

Make no mistake, I give Griffin his fair share of the blame because we're talking about "adult" human beings here and he clearly wasn't thinking about his best interest given the free reign he inherited by being drafted by Washington. Nobody, it seems, wanted to play the adult role outside of Snyder or Griffin either. Telling your boss "NO!" and insisting upon it takes a level of responsibility that's becoming extremely rare these days. Perhaps they tried and failed, but how then do they look in a mirror and live with the person staring back at them? How do they walk into the locker room and tell 52 other guys to not do what's being allowed to one?

With regard to the narrative surrounding Griffin being the hand-picked guy by Snyder, Even if true, I don't support the resulting idea that it has some negative bearing on the coaching staff. I also don't buy into long-term rebuilds greater than two years because as a coach my job at hiring is to make the very best of what I have regardless of who put them in my locker room. In real-time, we are seeing this played out in Philadelphia, with the New York Giants, Jacksonville, Miami, Carolina, Chicago, Detroit, and Indianapolis albeit not all of them with the success generally hoped for. To be clear, each and every one of these teams has a first or second-year head coach who did not select the QB that they have, nor in most cases, the team that they have, however, what they've done is essentially baked the cake with what they have and most have their teams heading in a better direction than our current 4th year, 5-year rebuild guy. This is why I would have elevated Mike Shanahan to a front-office position and given Kyle the reigns.

 

[Stymietee]

I don’t think RG3 took coaching well

I agree, but there weren't any boundaries set for him or organizational norms in place to prevent him from disregarding instructions or understanding the limits of his role in the grander scheme. In effect, he didn't have reason to take coaching at all. Was he to blame for this?

 

[skinsdad62]

I agree, but there weren't any boundaries set for him or organizational norms in place to prevent him from disregarding instructions or understanding the limits of his role in the grander scheme. In effect, he didn't have reason to take coaching at all. Was he to blame for this?

I agree with what you are saying . I think both parties are to blame

 

[kbso83432]

 

[Sportster 72]

Doesn't happen until new ownership

 

[kbso83432]

Doesn't happen until new ownership

I think that what they meant by "ducks in a row." I assumed that meant getting everything in place in time to hire him. That said Payton could sign with a team today.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I think with a new owner, and somehow landing Payton, the city again goes wild even before we play a preseason game.
i'd actually be one of the those psycho fans if that happened.

 

[kbso83432]

I think with a new owner, and somehow landing Payton, the city again goes wild even before we play a preseason game.
i'd actually be one of the those psycho fans if that happened.

Long shot, but im here for it.