The Call that Changed the Series

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I get it. I'm not saying that I'm a blind homer or that you're a blind hater. I think all 3 of us do a pretty good job at trying to be objective and call it like we see it. But its human nature for us to see what we want to see... no matter how much we want to see the truth.

It just irks me when people start acting like the answer to a debate is obvious and anyone who can't see it it is "attached to so-and-so's balls" or whatever lame reference to the male anatomy they want to go with.

IDK,
What Ive seen is the games, and the players who are getting Loves minutes have IMO exceeded expectations.

The Bulls were a mess with Gasol/Naoh together, for sure, but I imagine Thibbs would have made some adjustments.

The biggest difference in game 1 was Gasol, the Cavs had no answer, so my common sense tells me that he would have been a big factor/concern as the series played out.

That being said, as I've said all along, shit happens...
Championship teams often need to find a way.

 

[trojanfan12]

Your instance that it is black and white tells me this conversation will be fruitless.

For the record... I never specifically disagreed with your stance that Gasol means more to the Bulls than Love means to the Cavs. It's your treating it like its an unquestionable fact that I am challenging.

Not sure how it's questionable. Just as it isn't questionable that Love being out and Gasol being in gives the Bulls an advantage, it's not questionable that both of them being out puts the advantage back to the Cavs.

Not as big an advantage as the Bulls would have if Gasol weren't out, but still an advantage to the Cavs. If you have 2 relatively equal players out, but one team is better equipped to deal with the loss, then the advantage goes to that team.

 

[gordontrue]

The biggest difference in game 1 was Gasol, the Cavs had no answer, so my common sense tells me that he would have been a big factor/concern as the series played out.

Yeah, that's a very good point. I would point out that the Cavs did come up with a pretty good adjustment for himi in Game 2... but its hard to tell if that was more fluke or trend since Gasol has missed a lot of time since then.

There's no doubt that Gasol was the biggest reason the Bulls got their 1 blowout win. He's obviously a huge loss to their matchup with the Cavs... as Love was for their matchup with the Bulls.

 

[trojanfan12]

Championship teams often need to find a way.

^^^THIS^^^
If Gasol remains out and the Bulls don't find a way to cover that loss like the Cavs have the loss of Love. Then they really don't deserve to advance.

 

[gordontrue]

Not sure how it's questionable. Just as it isn't questionable that Love being out and Gasol being in gives the Bulls an advantage, it's not questionable that both of them being out puts the advantage back to the Cavs.

Not as big an advantage as the Bulls would have if Gasol weren't out, but still an advantage to the Cavs. If you have 2 relatively equal players out, but one team is better equipped to deal with the loss, then the advantage goes to that team.

I get what you're saying. You are thinking of it in terms of chronology... which is weird to me. Love got hurt first... so the Bulls had an advantage... but then Gasol got hurt... so now it's advantage back to the Cavs. I wasn't thinking of it from that angle.


Bottom line... you give me the option a couple weeks ago of having Love and Gasol in the series... or Love and Gasol both out of the series. I'll take them both in 10 times out of 10. This Cavs team - with Love - had peaked into the best team in the league at the end of the season. The Bulls - with Gasol - hadn't really shown much other than potential.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I get what you're saying. You are thinking of it in terms of chronology... which is weird to me. Love got hurt first... so the Bulls had an advantage... but then Gasol got hurt... so now it's advantage back to the Cavs. I wasn't thinking of it from that angle.


Bottom line... you give me the option a couple weeks ago of having Love and Gasol in the series... or Love and Gasol both out of the series. I'll take them both in 10 times out of 10. This Cavs team - with Love - had peaked into the best team in the league at the end of the season. The Bulls - with Gasol - hadn't really shown much other than potential.

I agree with that if the mindset is going into the series, but both JR and Shump have been huge.

I agree with Trojan that the Cavs obviously did a better job of creating a roster equipped to deal with the loss of anyone other than James.

 

[gordontrue]

I agree with that if the mindset is going into the series, but both JR and Shump have been huge.

I agree with Trojan that the Cavs obviously did a better job of creating a roster equipped to deal with the loss of anyone other than James.

Yeah, I mean... the Cavs role players have stepped up and shown they can fill the void better than the Bulls role players have.

I don't know if people would've predicted that before the series... but it is what has happened thus far.

 

[trojanfan12]

I get what you're saying. You are thinking of it in terms of chronology... which is weird to me. Love got hurt first... so the Bulls had an advantage... but then Gasol got hurt... so now it's advantage back to the Cavs. I wasn't thinking of it from that angle.


Bottom line... you give me the option a couple weeks ago of having Love and Gasol in the series... or Love and Gasol both out of the series. I'll take them both in 10 times out of 10. This Cavs team - with Love - had peaked into the best team in the league at the end of the season. The Bulls - with Gasol - hadn't really shown much other than potential.

I agree. It's always best for teams to be 100% when they play each other, especially in the playoffs. But, stuff happens and that's why teams have bench players. As much as we all cracked on the Cavs about trying to "bring in everybody" for their bench, what's happened as far as injuries shows they were smart to do that.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I agree. It's always best for teams to be 100% when they play each other, especially in the playoffs. But, stuff happens and that's why teams have bench players. As much as we all cracked on the Cavs about trying to "bring in everybody" for their bench, what's happened as far as injuries shows they were smart to do that.

I'm still waiting for Wiggys prediction of Mike Miller making a difference...

You know, the guy who James needed so badly in Miami

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm still waiting for Wiggys prediction of Mike Miller making a difference...

You know, the guy who James needed so badly in Miami

If he does, we'll probably have to create a Mike Miller thread and just lock Wiggy in it.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Maybe, but it might be over in the Bulls favor.

The Cavs already played a full series without Love, they had a week to prepare, and all parties involved have pretty much stepped up.
Shump and Smith have both paid big dividends.
If Love is around, who knows how the minutes would have been split up, and/or if we see the good Love or bad Love?

The Cavs still had one win without Love and Chicago having Gasol and one win was by a GW. I think Love creates more opportunities for Cleveland to win then Pau and his 18 footer and rebounding. Love is underrated to this Cavs team and I really thought he was finding his role before he got hurt.

I guess we wont actually know until next year...maybe

 

[Shanemansj13]

It actually is that black and white. They both bring pretty much the same things to their teams. One team is more equipped to deal with the loss than the other. That's not a knock on Love, it's actually a compliment to the Cavs on how they have constructed their team.

As for the Cavs can't win without Love. Those opinions were based on the Bulls having Gasol and the Cavs not having Love, so you can bring them up all you want, but it'll just prove the exact point that you're disagreeing with.

I really think you make good points, but the spacing Love brings is pretty huge. It takes away another post defender out of the paint and if he doesnt the dagger by Love. It just opens up everything. Gasol brings a lot to the Bulls but not as much as when Love is "defending" that 18 footer.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I'm still waiting for Wiggys prediction of Mike Miller making a difference...

You know, the guy who James needed so badly in Miami

I think it is obvious. Locker room leadership...duh

 

[purguy12]

So far Gasol has missed 2 games and Love has missed 5.

2 1/2 games and cavs had a week to prepare for it. Bulls had 1 day.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I think it is obvious. Locker room leadership...duh

Stop with that nonsense....
Heat last year had James, Wade, Bosh, U.D., Allen, Lewis, Battier...+++

You saying they needed Millers leadership.....

 

[purguy12]

Just stop. If the Bulls didn't want to lose, they shouldn't have let the Cavs get a 17 point lead.

Facts are facts if you cant handle then don't read it. The play changed the game in a big way. they got a 17pt lead because of that call. LOL It turned into a 5 pt play and gave all the momentum to the Cavs at Home. Look I never said Bulls would of won but it 100% changed the game. Then you throw in the refs screwed up last game on the tech on Blatt that should of been. Bulls should of got ball plus a free throw. Those are the rules. If the refs don't want to follow the rules then why have. NBA.com - RULE NO. 12-FOULS AND PENALTIES Here is another fact for you. go read.

that's 2 games that changed this whole series. It makes the NBA look bad. Imagine if these calls happen against the Cavs it would be the end of the world. This was a great match up and the refs butchered this series with these 1 Big Call and 1 Non call. As a Bulls fan it sucks. Im not stating we are better or should of won but it 100% changed this series.

The right call should of been Tech on Gibson and Tech on Delladanova. 99% of the basketball experts have stated this. Even the announcers talked about how that was a terrible call. The head of the refs association even said he would of called on both players.

Its sucks big time but got to move on and I hope some how the Bulls can move on.

 

[purguy12]

I agree for the most part, but Cavs fans also need to stop with the Love and injury nonsense.
Gasol is out, that is prob a bigger loss for them then Love is for you.
Both teams have several other walking wounded.
Nobody wants to hear about poor Kyrie. He played 39 minutes yesterday.


People can go back and forth all day over reasons, but the same thing that has been the difference still is.
If Bulls had James they prob would have been in the Finals the last several years, but they don't..and they can't find a way to beat him 4/7.

I agree 100%, Both teams have injuries. Stop with irving hurt. He isn't that hurt. Everyone is hurt. If he was hurt he wouldn't play that many Min. Also Iman not hurt. He even said he is fine. It was just that 1 Q he felt something. Both teams are banged up. Its playoff basketball.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Stop with that nonsense....
Heat last year had James, Wade, Bosh, U.D., Allen, Lewis, Battier...+++

You saying they needed Millers leadership.....

I think it was sarcasm by Shane

That game he played was a cot damn disaster

 

[Shanemansj13]

Facts are facts if you cant handle then don't read it. The play changed the game in a big way. they got a 17pt lead because of that call. LOL It turned into a 5 pt play and gave all the momentum to the Cavs at Home. Look I never said Bulls would of won but it 100% changed the game. Then you throw in the refs screwed up last game on the tech on Blatt that should of been. Bulls should of got ball plus a free throw. Those are the rules. If the refs don't want to follow the rules then why have. NBA.com - RULE NO. 12-FOULS AND PENALTIES Here is another fact for you. go read.

that's 2 games that changed this whole series. It makes the NBA look bad. Imagine if these calls happen against the Cavs it would be the end of the world. This was a great match up and the refs butchered this series with these 1 Big Call and 1 Non call. As a Bulls fan it sucks. Im not stating we are better or should of won but it 100% changed this series.

The right call should of been Tech on Gibson and Tech on Delladanova. 99% of the basketball experts have stated this. Even the announcers talked about how that was a terrible call. The head of the refs association even said he would of called on both players.

Its sucks big time but got to move on and I hope some how the Bulls can move on.

In the end if the Bulls lose, all that will be remembered is how the Bulls failed again. I always believed this: 1 call doesnt decide a game. There are others things the team should have done and if that call isnt the same the outcome is still different. So taking points off the board doesnt mean Chicago wins. 1 bad call out of 100 doesnt do anything, especially when Chicago got plenty of calls that werent good one either.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I agree 100%, Both teams have injuries. Stop with irving hurt. He isn't that hurt. Everyone is hurt. If he was hurt he wouldn't play that many Min. Also Iman not hurt. He even said he is fine. It was just that 1 Q he felt something. Both teams are banged up. Its playoff basketball.

It's playoff basketball that's why he is playing, Gasol is just not tough. Something we all knew.

Instead of focusing on Kyrie "not" being hurt, maybe you should focus on why Gasol cant put himself out on the court.