The Call that Changed the Series

[hockey878]

I'm assuming these are calls being referred to?

 

[trojanfan12]

Actually, turnup was right about that. Gasol is a bigger loss for the Bulls than Love for the Cavs. The reason is that the Cavs have more consistent offensive weapons than the Bulls do, so it's easier for them to make up for the loss of Love's scoring than it is for the Bulls to make up for the loss of Pau's.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Actually, turnup was right about that. Gasol is a bigger loss for the Bulls than Love for the Cavs. The reason is that the Cavs have more consistent offensive weapons than the Bulls do, so it's easier for them to make up for the loss of Love's scoring than it is for the Bulls to make up for the loss of Pau's.

What about Pau's defensive effort, it hurts them. It is more about Love's passing and rebounding and the fact when he drifts to the 3 pt line it opens up the whole court. Plus if Love was out there it would be a guy to limit Gasol and that 18 footer.

If Gasol and Love were healthy, this series would already be over IMO

 

[trojanfan12]

What about Pau's defensive effort, it hurts them. It is more about Love's passing and rebounding and the fact when he drifts to the 3 pt line it opens up the whole court. Plus if Love was out there it would be a guy to limit Gasol and that 18 footer.

If Gasol and Love were healthy, this series would already be over IMO

Pau is no worse defensively than Love. Neither of them are going to win any DPOY awards. Additionally, Pau is one of the best passing bigs in the league and averages about 10 boards a game.

If they were both healthy, we'd likely be seeing just as close a series, but with a little more scoring. As I said, the difference is that the Cavs have more offensive weapons to replace the loss of Love than the Bulls have with Gasol.

Gasol has missed the last 2 games and the Bulls have lost both. That's not a coincidence.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I'm not saying that Gasol is better then Love, but the Bulls have nobody to fill his role.
Cavs 3 point shooters have stepped up to replace Love, and T.T. getting extra minutes fills the rebounding void.

 

[gordontrue]

So far Gasol has missed 2 games and Love has missed 5.

 

[trojanfan12]

So far Gasol has missed 2 games and Love has missed 5.

And?

 

[gordontrue]

And?

I don't think that's an implication I need to spell out given the conversation you guys are having about who is the bigger loss.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't think that's an implication I need to spell out given the conversation you guys are having about who is the bigger loss.

Actually, it is. As has been pointed out, it' easier for the Cavs to overcome the loss of Love than it is for the Bulls to overcome the loss of Gasol. They are both pretty even as far as what they bring to each team (approx. 18 ppg., 10 rpg., and average to below average defense), but the Cavs are better equipped to make up for the loss of Love than the Bulls are for the loss of Gasol.

Not sure why Cavs fans can't seem to see that.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

What about Pau's defensive effort, it hurts them. It is more about Love's passing and rebounding and the fact when he drifts to the 3 pt line it opens up the whole court. Plus if Love was out there it would be a guy to limit Gasol and that 18 footer.

If Gasol and Love were healthy, this series would already be over IMO

Maybe, but it might be over in the Bulls favor.

The Cavs already played a full series without Love, they had a week to prepare, and all parties involved have pretty much stepped up.
Shump and Smith have both paid big dividends.
If Love is around, who knows how the minutes would have been split up, and/or if we see the good Love or bad Love?

 

[gordontrue]

Actually, it is. As has been pointed out, it' easier for the Cavs to overcome the loss of Love than it is for the Bulls to overcome the loss of Gasol. They are both pretty even as far as what they bring to each team (approx. 18 ppg., 10 rpg., and average to below average defense), but the Cavs are better equipped to make up for the loss of Love than the Bulls are for the loss of Gasol.

Not sure why Cavs fans can't seem to see that.

I respect that opinion and analysis.. but its not nearly as black-and-white of a debate as you make it out to be. Good arguments both ways. And the fact that one has missed more than twice the time, to this point, is very much a relevant point in the discussion.

I'm very tempted to go searching for all of the "Cavs have no hope of winning without Love... he was key to everything" posts that were incredibly prevalent among the anti-Cavs folks a couple weeks ago.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Actually, it is. As has been pointed out, it' easier for the Cavs to overcome the loss of Love than it is for the Bulls to overcome the loss of Gasol. They are both pretty even as far as what they bring to each team (approx. 18 ppg., 10 rpg., and average to below average defense), but the Cavs are better equipped to make up for the loss of Love than the Bulls are for the loss of Gasol.

Not sure why Cavs fans can't seem to see that.

Maybe because most only latch on to James' balls vs really watching, knowing, and understanding the game?

 

[gordontrue]

Maybe because most only latch on to James' balls vs really watching, knowing, and understanding the game?

I agree... but it is true for both sides of the LeBron James fence... very few posters on here truly see objectively when it comes to him.

I concede that I don't. You and Trojan sure as hell don't either.

 

[ducky]

OMG.


I didn’t watch the game. Just saw the replay.

What the f&%^ are you complaining about?!?! Taj should have been ejected for that. He tried to kick a player who was face down on the ground with his head turned the other way?!?!

That was the refs blowing a call?!? Good lord what a bunch of homeristic bull&#$#.

 

[trojanfan12]

I respect that opinion and analysis.. but its not nearly as black-and-white of a debate as you make it out to be. Good arguments both ways. And the fact that one has missed more than twice the time, to this point, is very much a relevant point in the discussion.

I'm very tempted to go searching for all of the "Cavs have no hope of winning without Love... he was key to everything" posts that were incredibly prevalent among the anti-Cavs folks a couple weeks ago.

It actually is that black and white. They both bring pretty much the same things to their teams. One team is more equipped to deal with the loss than the other. That's not a knock on Love, it's actually a compliment to the Cavs on how they have constructed their team.

As for the Cavs can't win without Love. Those opinions were based on the Bulls having Gasol and the Cavs not having Love, so you can bring them up all you want, but it'll just prove the exact point that you're disagreeing with.

 

[SJ76]

You don't get a flagrant for holding. Maybe a flag or a warning or something.. You DO get a flagrant for kicking someone.

It's like the NHL, NFL, etc.. The second guy always gets caught.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I agree... but it is true for both sides of the LeBron James fence... very few posters on here truly see objectively when it comes to him.

I concede that I don't. You and Trojan sure as hell don't either.

I think I do. I think he does.
We've NEVER questioned his talent.
I certainly haven't been or tried to have been anything but fair and objective in analyzing his play this series, and for the most part all of the time.

Me not liking him is something entirely different.

I can keep my comments and reasons totally separate from evaluating his on court talent.

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree... but it is true for both sides of the LeBron James fence... very few posters on here truly see objectively when it comes to him.

I concede that I don't. You and Trojan sure as hell don't either.

That's not true at all. Both turnup and I have expressed not liking Lebron, but we have never said that he's not the best player in the game. He's part of why it's easier for the Cavs to make up for the loss of Love than for the Bulls to make up for the loss of Gasol.

 

[gordontrue]

I think I do. I think he does.
We've NEVER questioned his talent.
I certainly haven't been or tried to have been anything but fair and objective in analyzing his play this series, and for the most part all of the time.

Me not liking him is something entirely different.

I can keep my comments and reasons totally separate from evaluating his on court talent.

I get it. I'm not saying that I'm a blind homer or that you're a blind hater. I think all 3 of us do a pretty good job at trying to be objective and call it like we see it. But its human nature for us to see what we want to see... no matter how much we want to see the truth.

It just irks me when people start acting like the answer to a debate is obvious and anyone who can't see it it is "attached to so-and-so's balls" or whatever lame reference to the male anatomy they want to go with.

 

[gordontrue]

It actually is that black and white. They both bring pretty much the same things to their teams. One team is more equipped to deal with the loss than the other. That's not a knock on Love, it's actually a compliment to the Cavs on how they have constructed their team.

As for the Cavs can't win without Love. Those opinions were based on the Bulls having Gasol and the Cavs not having Love, so you can bring them up all you want, but it'll just prove the exact point that you're disagreeing with.

Your insistence that it is black and white tells me this conversation will be fruitless.

For the record... I never specifically disagreed with your stance that Gasol means more to the Bulls than Love means to the Cavs. It's your treating it like its an unquestionable fact that I am challenging.