Stop running the ball

[ehb5]

That is asinine. LOL I am glad you know and the computer programmer know more than guys who either coached or played the game. You also don't know when to say you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

I mean the results are objective. Look at the nba. Or baseball. Any sport really. Time and time again the "sports guys" think they know everything because they played or coached and who ends up being right? The nerds.

Nobodys saying that the nerds who figure this stuff out can replace the players or coaches or know how to do their jobs. But they CAN discover things about the game that are true and that if the coaches and players can get over their egos will help them win.

Coaching or playing doesnt trump the objective evidence.

 

[ehb5]

such as Gabe Kapler?

Doug Pederson may or may not be an analytics guy but the Eagles won the SB with RPO.

RPO wont work when you have say a Rob Kelley who is slow and lacks vision/first step and runs directly into the line. NFL defenses are smart that wouldnt work if there was a threat to run ball.

Eagles and Patriots are 2 of the most effective teams I saw running the ball last year even if neither of them had a 1400 rusher.

Doug pederson and the eagles heavily use analytics which is a large part of what makes them great. The analytics community is very pro RPO actually.

Considering the effectiveness of the running game didnt affect the effectiveness of play action passing, I'm betting the run game actually has a pretty minimal impact on RPO success.

 

[ehb5]

ehb and I have been having this discussion for two years. He is not all wrong or all right. I think I said in the beginning this is going to go like the political thread in Off Topic.

The game is evolving. Some out of necessity because they do not teach kids how to play QB in most college offenses anymore. You can really apply that to WR position and OTs too. Many come into league now without the mental skills to play positions so NFL coaches are having to adapt to some degree.

Today's game as we all know is much more of a passing game. The rules have made it so. All the rules favor the offense and not the defense.

What you can't tell in analytics is how deception created by coaches effects players in a way to make the offense more efficient. A good run game helps many QBs, not all. Play action helps most QBs. In that respect it doesn't so much matter if you can run the ball successfully. Look at the Redskins, their run game has sucked but they were still dependent on play action passing to be successful. They just let a QB go that threw for about 13,000 yards in three years with a crappy run game. Anytime you cause a defensive player to take a step forward or even just hold his ground because his key says it might be a run it benefits the offense.

I don't disagree that analytics has a place in the game but it does not replace actual on the field experience and knowledge.

Oh nobodys saying play action is bad or that you should literally never run the ball (despite my tongue in cheek thread title). But running the ball less or less effectively isnt going to stop play action from being deadly.

 

[Skins2021]

Doug pederson and the eagles heavily use analytics which is a large part of what makes them great. The analytics community is very pro RPO actually.

Considering the effectiveness of the running game didnt affect the effectiveness of play action passing, I'm betting the run game actually has a pretty minimal impact on RPO success.

Based off this reply I am not quite sure you understand what analytics and RPO are..

what a steaming pile of bullshit

 

[ehb5]

Based off this reply I am not quite sure you understand what analytics and RPO are..

what a steaming pile of bullshit

Likewise.

Id love to hear what you thinki got wrong though.

 

[gkekoa]

Based off this reply I am not quite sure you understand what analytics and RPO are..

what a steaming pile of bullshit

Actually Ehb is completely correct.

3rd and 1 from the opponents 40, going old school, would say punt. If you use analytics, you may see going for it yield some a +4.3 points. The smart move it to go for it, even if those old football souls say punt.

The old football souls say run the ball on first. Well, throwing on first usually has better results than a run for that set of downs. That isn’t saying throw every time on first because then you are predictable but the results are statistically relevant.

I think you should reconsider which one doesn’t understand the RPO. The success of the running game has no bearing RPO because you decide to run/pass based on defensive alignments and personnel. It sets up the better option based on those keys.

 

[Skins2021]

Going for it on 4th down in opponents territory or going for 2 instead of 1 can be whatever you want, analytics, probability, statistics, having a big pair, whatever

The RPO in itself is not an analytical play whatsoever... its baffling that anyone could say otherwise. It pretty much the anti analytical play and that was the fundamental piece of the Eagles offense and that is how they won the superbowl...

 

[ehb5]

Going for it on 4th down in opponents territory or going for 2 instead of 1 can be whatever you want, analytics, probability, statistics, having a big pair, whatever

The RPO in itself is not an analytical play whatsoever... its baffling that anyone could say otherwise. It pretty much the anti analytical play and that was the fundamental piece of the Eagles offense and that is how they won the superbowl...

Wat.

How is it the anti analytics play??

 

[Skins2021]

Wat.

How is it the anti analytics play??

cause you dont know what the fuck you are going to do with the football pre snap

is this real?

 

[ehb5]

cause you dont know what the fuck you are going to do with the football pre snap

is this real?

I would like to know if its real as well lol.

Why do you think that not knowing what you're going to do with the football pre snap makes it an anti analytics play??

 

[Sportster 72]

Oh nobodys saying play action is bad or that you should literally never run the ball (despite my tongue in cheek thread title). But running the ball less or less effectively isnt going to stop play action from being deadly.

The Redskins are proof of that.

 

[Sportster 72]

I mean the results are objective. Look at the nba. Or baseball. Any sport really. Time and time again the "sports guys" think they know everything because they played or coached and who ends up being right? The nerds.

Nobodys saying that the nerds who figure this stuff out can replace the players or coaches or know how to do their jobs. But they CAN discover things about the game that are true and that if the coaches and players can get over their egos will help them win.

Coaching or playing doesnt trump the objective evidence.

Sorry, don't agree about the nerds. There is a place for analytics but I am sticking with the guys that play and a coach. You said you wanted to start a fight.

 

[Rowdy]

Oh nobodys saying play action is bad or that you should literally never run the ball (despite my tongue in cheek thread title). But running the ball less or less effectively isnt going to stop play action from being deadly.

Disagree. If you’re run game isn’t effective, then how in the heck are you going to run say a RPO? Wouldn’t the defense just set up for the pass? After all your run game sucks so go head an try to run

 

[gkekoa]

Disagree. If you’re run game isn’t effective, then how in the heck are you going to run say a RPO? Wouldn’t the defense just set up for the pass? After all your run game sucks so go head an try to run

The RPO is nothing more than a run even if it is a pass. The OL doesn’t know the decision is to pass so they are run blocking. This means the ball has to come out quick or it will be a penalty. The decision to pass is based off of a defensive alignment or key position alignment.

 

[Rowdy]

The RPO is nothing more than a run even if it is a pass. The OL doesn’t know the decision is to pass so they are run blocking. This means the ball has to come out quick or it will be a penalty. The decision to pass is based off of a defensive alignment or key position alignment.

Right and my point is if you can’t run the ball effectively. Then why not show the defense as to make the qb go with the run? Now of course if the run games effectiveness is based off of defense that’s a different story, but if you’re run game sucks just due to talent then I don’t see the pa pass or rpo working very well

 

[gkekoa]

Right and my point is if you can’t run the ball effectively. Then why not show the defense as to make the qb go with the run? Now of course if the run games effectiveness is based off of defense that’s a different story, but if you’re run game sucks just due to talent then I don’t see the pa pass or rpo working very well

Because the defense doesn’t know the keys.

 

[ehb5]

Disagree. If you’re run game isn’t effective, then how in the heck are you going to run say a RPO? Wouldn’t the defense just set up for the pass? After all your run game sucks so go head an try to run

You would think but it turns out that doesnt seem to be how it actually works out. Play action is generally just as effective when you don't run well.

 

[Sportster 72]

You still have to run the ball, but as I said a little bit ago the Redskins proved the last three years you do not have to run the effectively to make play action work. What makes it work is you full the defense or some defensive players into hesitating or even better taking a step up, then they are late getting into their drops or covering at all.

 

[Sportster 72]

The RPO is nothing more than a run even if it is a pass. The OL doesn’t know the decision is to pass so they are run blocking. This means the ball has to come out quick or it will be a penalty. The decision to pass is based off of a defensive alignment or key position alignment.

100% correct. The only guy that knows whether it is going to be run or pass is the QB. He counts numbers in the box or looks for a mismatch at the line. The ball does have to come out quickly gk says or you risk an OL downfield penalty because they are run blocking - pass or run. Receivers have to be ready to catch a quick pass or block if the ball is handed off. Guess which QB led the league in RPO plays last year? Yep AS .... Eagles were a hair behind.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Interesting stat on the deep ball with Alex...gonna be interesting to see if it continues to increase this year...