Stop running the ball

[ehb5]

I feel like starting a fight so since theres a lot of talk on here about how we need to dedicate ourselves to the run game im just going to make an anti running thread that i contribute to whenever i come across some good points.

Enjoy!

 

[ehb5]

A thread

 

[ehb5]

"But it sets up play action"

Well..

 

[ehb5]

 

[Sportster 72]

You are off to a great start at convincing me. So far you have used a computer programmer and a Fantasy Football guy to support your opinion. This going to go a lot like the Off Topic Thread.

 

[ehb5]

Running Backs Are Finally Getting Paid What They’re Worth

 

[ehb5]

You are off to a great start at convincing me. So far you have used a computer programmer and a Fantasy Football guy to support your opinion. This going to go a lot like the Off Topic Thread.

*shrug* who explains the points is pretty irrelevant (though I feel like a computer programmer and analytics based fantasy expert would be good sources anyways).

The objective numbers are what matter.

 

[Sportster 72]

I'll stick with my sources. I know they are right. I know you are just rehashing an opinion you have held for some time. Why have a Bell, a Gurley etc.? But there are many other reasons. Have fun.

 

[skinsdad62]

an offense should have balance (or close to it )

our offense last season suffered by not having a true running game . now we dont need a thousand yd rusher but 4.2 plus avg when we do would be good to have .

the eagles won the super bowl , they ran the ball 473 times , averaging 4.5 yds per carry and scored 9tds . that was 3rd overall in the NFL in terms of yards

8 of the 10 top rushing teams made the playoffs

they passed 603 times

we rushed for a horrific 3.6 yds per carry and we rushed it 401 times , we scored 10 times

on defense the eagles were 1st in the entire NFL in rush defense and gave up a meager 3.8 yds per carry and 7 tds , the vikes who they played in the NFC title game gave up 3.7 yds per carry and 10 tds

we were last in the NFL and we gave up 4.5 yds per carry , that was 28th and we gave up 13 tds

so , do you need a good running game ? i would say yes . being balanced helps . should you be good at stopping the run ? 6 0f the top 10 teams stopping it were in the playoffs . closer but still an advantage so yes

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I wholeheartedly support OP in this thread.

 

[ehb5]

I'll stick with my sources. I know they are right. I know you are just rehashing an opinion you have held for some time. Why have a Bell, a Gurley etc.? But there are many other reasons. Have fun.

Nobody has ever said it was bad to have Gurley or Bell.

And fwiw when studies are done on the effectiveness of running, Gurley and Bells stats are included in that.

 

[ehb5]

an offense should have balance (or close to it )

our offense last season suffered by not having a true running game . now we dont need a thousand yd rusher but 4.2 plus avg when we do would be good to have .

the eagles won the super bowl , they ran the ball 473 times , averaging 4.5 yds per carry and scored 9tds . that was 3rd overall in the NFL in terms of yards

8 of the 10 top rushing teams made the playoffs

they passed 603 times

we rushed for a horrific 3.6 yds per carry and we rushed it 401 times , we scored 10 times

on defense the eagles were 1st in the entire NFL in rush defense and gave up a meager 3.8 yds per carry and 7 tds , the vikes who they played in the NFC title game gave up 3.7 yds per carry and 10 tds

we were last in the NFL and we gave up 4.5 yds per carry , that was 28th and we gave up 13 tds

so , do you need a good running game ? i would say yes . being balanced helps . should you be good at stopping the run ? 6 0f the top 10 teams stopping it were in the playoffs . closer but still an advantage so yes

Did you read the articles/listen to the podcast? Because they touch on a lot of those points.

 

[podsox]

Your wish is going to come true after this season. With the elimination of the 3 pt stance, the running gm in ftball is going to disappear

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Your wish is going to come true after this season. With the elimination of the 3 pt stance, the running gm in ftball is going to disappear

Yeah, they've fucked over the run game for the passing game for years. Sooner or later we're gonna get a coach that goes full Mike Leach on the NFL and win with it. A shame, but that's where the game is going unless we see a reversal of rule changes in the passing game.

Also not shocking at all to see the Chargers are front and center in Sharp's article. If you want to talk about underachieving teams- look at the coaches who still are run heavy for no particular reason.

 

[Sportster 72]

Did you read the articles/listen to the podcast? Because they touch on a lot of those points.

I took it a step further. I talk to current and former NFL, college and HS players. They might have a clue.

 

[ehb5]

I took it a step further. I talk to current and former NFL, college and HS players. They might have a clue.

Unfortunately they frequently don't because they think "being a football guy" means they know better than the numbers. The best coaches are the ones who embrace analytics.

 

[Sportster 72]

Unfortunately they frequently don't because they think "being a football guy" means they know better than the numbers. The best coaches are the ones who embrace analytics.

That is asinine. LOL I am glad you know and the computer programmer know more than guys who either coached or played the game. You also don't know when to say you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

 

[Skins2021]

Unfortunately they frequently don't because they think "being a football guy" means they know better than the numbers. The best coaches are the ones who embrace analytics.

such as Gabe Kapler?

Doug Pederson may or may not be an analytics guy but the Eagles won the SB with RPO.

RPO wont work when you have say a Rob Kelley who is slow and lacks vision/first step and runs directly into the line. NFL defenses are smart that wouldnt work if there was a threat to run ball.

Eagles and Patriots are 2 of the most effective teams I saw running the ball last year even if neither of them had a 1400 rusher.

 

[skinsdad62]

I put the facts out there you can judge

 

[Sportster 72]

ehb and I have been having this discussion for two years. He is not all wrong or all right. I think I said in the beginning this is going to go like the political thread in Off Topic.

The game is evolving. Some out of necessity because they do not teach kids how to play QB in most college offenses anymore. You can really apply that to WR position and OTs too. Many come into league now without the mental skills to play positions so NFL coaches are having to adapt to some degree.

Today's game as we all know is much more of a passing game. The rules have made it so. All the rules favor the offense and not the defense.

What you can't tell in analytics is how deception created by coaches effects players in a way to make the offense more efficient. A good run game helps many QBs, not all. Play action helps most QBs. In that respect it doesn't so much matter if you can run the ball successfully. Look at the Redskins, their run game has sucked but they were still dependent on play action passing to be successful. They just let a QB go that threw for about 13,000 yards in three years with a crappy run game. Anytime you cause a defensive player to take a step forward or even just hold his ground because his key says it might be a run it benefits the offense.

I don't disagree that analytics has a place in the game but it does not replace actual on the field experience and knowledge.