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Sources believe Deshaun Watson may have played last snap with Houston Texans

Breed

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If they don't give up too much I would be okay with it. I don't expect they would draft a QB that helps this coming year. Maybe you can get 4-6 years out of Stafford which allows the WTF to look for a QB. Depends on how big a bidding war happens over Stafford. Being where Detroit is and they usually aren't on TV in our area I haven't watched him a lot. He sure has put us some numbers.

How long do you think they can keep this defense together ... two or three more years?

I like Watson better but not at the price he would command.
As is w/o changes another year. Allen is going into his 5th year which I believe is an option year on his rookie contract if the Skins decide to use it. After that decisions will have to be made.
 

Breed

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Incentives are the key word.
I'm not a big Cam fan, least not anymore. He's been used up much sooner than he should've been imo being the de facto main short yardage RB option every year he's been in the league. That, and he's never really learned to put touch on the ball. Every pass he throws seems like its gotta be 60 mph and on a rope. Last year as ineffective as he was as a passer. It was still his 2nd best year by far when it came to comp %. That doesn't bode well imo going forward with him.
 

Breed

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One more thing about Cuz. 2017 was really the year Allen/Snyder fucked him. They let both Garcon n Djax walk and while we'll never truly know what happened. I don't think any effort was made to retain either one. That I believe was the first time in NFL history that a team just let go 2 1,000 WRs in the same year via FA. They also let Jordan Reed basically concuss himself out of 3/5 of the season. Instead of sitting him down throughout preseason and maybe a couple games to start the year. They kept bringing him back as soon as they possibly could till he was done.

They replaced Garcon n Djax with the Terrelle Pryor/Josh Doctson/Ryan Grant trio that year. Never got another decent TE and in Kirk's 3 years of starting. Never really tried improving the running game or upgrading the OL. And it all came to a head in 2017 cuz Allen/Snyder knew unless they paid Kirk 30+million in 2018. He was gone and rightfully so.

2017 was his worst year stat-wise, but imo it was his best year @ being a stud QB. I'm not real big on believing a single player can somehow make an entire team play better. That sounds like magic to me. A single player can certainly inspire a team w/o question and in 2017 I believe Kirk could've been that player for the Skins and was at least for a game. When the Skins defeated the Seahawks who have been one of numerous huckleberries throughout the years for the Skins. Unfortunately the Dr Bad Vibes n Dick Dastardly aura that Snyder n Allen had cast over the team was too much to overcome.
 

Sportster 72

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As is w/o changes another year. Allen is going into his 5th year which I believe is an option year on his rookie contract if the Skins decide to use it. After that decisions will have to be made.
Yes. I have been saying this for two years when people are yelling to sign expensive FAs. That is why signing Ironman at a decent contract for both was big. Every year from here on out one of these guys are going to get paid by someone. I think they need to sign one of the DTs and keep Settle at a lower contract. No clue how they will handle the back to back DEs. All part of the modern game.

That is why your Stafford question was interesting ... in part. Maybe you like a DT go but you'd have to pay Stafford. That would hurt as much once Smith and DH are off the books.
 

Breed

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Yes. I have been saying this for two years when people are yelling to sign expensive FAs. That is why signing Ironman at a decent contract for both was big. Every year from here on out one of these guys are going to get paid by someone. I think they need to sign one of the DTs and keep Settle at a lower contract. No clue how they will handle the back to back DEs. All part of the modern game.

That is why your Stafford question was interesting ... in part. Maybe you like a DT go but you'd have to pay Stafford. That would hurt as much once Smith and DH are off the books.

Yea. The bottom line when its all said n done is that being a team that consistently drafts well is w/o question the best way to building a team. That doesn't mean you don't dip into the free agent market, but it helps in that you don't have to pay big big money for a FA. Which can also lead to resentment from players you've drafted.
 

Sportster 72

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One more thing about Cuz. 2017 was really the year Allen/Snyder fucked him. They let both Garcon n Djax walk and while we'll never truly know what happened. I don't think any effort was made to retain either one. That I believe was the first time in NFL history that a team just let go 2 1,000 WRs in the same year via FA. They also let Jordan Reed basically concuss himself out of 3/5 of the season. Instead of sitting him down throughout preseason and maybe a couple games to start the year. They kept bringing him back as soon as they possibly could till he was done.

They replaced Garcon n Djax with the Terrelle Pryor/Josh Doctson/Ryan Grant trio that year. Never got another decent TE and in Kirk's 3 years of starting. Never really tried improving the running game or upgrading the OL. And it all came to a head in 2017 cuz Allen/Snyder knew unless they paid Kirk 30+million in 2018. He was gone and rightfully so.

2017 was his worst year stat-wise, but imo it was his best year @ being a stud QB. I'm not real big on believing a single player can somehow make an entire team play better. That sounds like magic to me. A single player can certainly inspire a team w/o question and in 2017 I believe Kirk could've been that player for the Skins and was at least for a game. When the Skins defeated the Seahawks who have been one of numerous huckleberries throughout the years for the Skins. Unfortunately the Dr Bad Vibes n Dick Dastardly aura that Snyder n Allen had cast over the team was too much to overcome.
My thoughts were KC was a top 10 and occasionally a little higher. No doubt losing Jackson and Garcon and injuries to Reed didn't help. The team didn't win but they were around .500 every year with a terrible D and iffy kicker.
 

Stymietee

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Note to a friend;

Don't you just love the way people use basic stats in an attempt to make some inane point while hoping that others will just go along with what's presented without thinking about, then answering the question...Why?

Kirk Cousins is a good middle of the pack, serviceable QB. NO one will argue that. He has comparable numbers at first blush to some of the best in the game, but falls very short when you look into those numbers in a quest to answer the question... 'then why is one guy a top 5 player and the other at his best is out of the top ten?' Here are the reasons why...


1611731812002.png1611731837238.png1611731859518.png1611731880739.png1611731901703.png1611731928362.png1611731948985.png1611731974667.png1611732003068.png
1611732022418.png
 

Stymietee

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wait there's more...


1611732088065.png1611732106930.png1611732124243.png1611732140926.png1611732171741.png1611732193388.png
 

Stymietee

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Here's the head to head... (Do you really want to keep up the charade?)


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Any questions? Class dismissed!

BTW: In case some are wondering....

The Offensive Value Metric (OVM) was created to provide a numerical scale to measure the overall value that an individual player provides to his offensive unit. A player with a higher OVM grade isn’t necessarily a higher skilled player, but they do create more offensive production for their team than a player with a lower OVM.
 
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Breed

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Like that one article that @skinsdad62 posted said. Watson is the only QB worth giving up a boatload a picks for.
 

Stymietee

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Like that one article that @skinsdad62 posted said. Watson is the only QB worth giving up a boatload a picks for.
I agree with that, except that I don't think that it would take a "boatload" of picks to get him. In fact I'm still waiting for someone to tell us all why my proposal which is essentially 5 or 6 players for that one great player isn't workable for both teams. Here it is again:

First this year and next
3rd in 2022, 2023
Matt Ioannidis and/or Daron Payne (They had the worse run stopping defense )

Washington's top needs:
LB (at least two, MLB +1 other)
QB (without trade)
WR (can and will be addressed in free agency)
DT (with trade)
TE
Corner
 
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skinsdad62

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Something to think about
 

Stymietee

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Something to think about
We have to understand that any trade of this type nets Washington Deshaun Watson.... DESHAUN WATSON!! That said, I would not make this trade because you're giving up more than you have to in order to make this trade happen. Eliminate one of the 1's add Ioannidis instead of either of the 1's and I'll make that trade without blinking twice because reality shows that you are actually moving players and picks, not just picks, as the writer suggests. Value for value, that's what it's gonna cost, pay it, an be happy with what you're doing, not what they are with their gains and/or possible poor draft choices with what they got from you.
 

Breed

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I agree with that, except that I don't think that it would take a "boatload" of picks to get him. In fact I'm still waiting for someone to tell us all why my proposal which is essentially 5 or 6 players for that one great player isn't workable for both teams. Here it is again:

First this year and next
3rd in 2022, 2023
Matt Ioannidis and/or Daron Payne (They had the worse run stopping defense )

Washington's top needs:
LB (at least two, MLB +1 other)
QB (without trade)
WR (can and will be addressed in free agency)
DT (with trade)
TE
Corner
That's pretty much what I'd call a boatload. With Watson being 25 though and entering into the 'he really really is getting it' stage. I think that boatload can be managed for those couple of years. I like Ioanndis a whole lot though. It wouldn't surprise if when its all said n done in a couple years. If he tyrns out to be the best of all the Skins present interior lineman. Though of all the interior linemen, MI seems most susceptible to injury as well so there's that.

 

Stymietee

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That's pretty much what I'd call a boatload. With Watson being 25 though and entering into the 'he really really is getting it' stage. I think that boatload can be managed for those couple of years. I like Ioanndis a whole lot though. It wouldn't surprise if when its all said n done in a couple years. If he tyrns out to be the best of all the Skins present interior lineman. Though of all the interior linemen, MI seems most susceptible to injury as well so there's that.

My Ad blocker wouldn't allow me to read the article, but with respect to what you wrote about Matt Ioannidis ; I like the dude too, but Washington did pretty well without him this past year. Might he had been a difference maker against some of those big runs this past year, absolutely! I have no credible argument against your point, but my counter is that getting Watson is going to take assets, some are talking about 3 1's to start and I disagree with that.

Why? Well, because when making any trade, a smart GM looks at the needs of his potential trading partner. In this case it's Houston, who sported one of the worse run stopping defenses in the NFL. Washington is loaded with really good players there and could absorb the loss of a Ioannidis or Tim Settle instead of another draft selection. Win-Win for both teams IMHO.
 

Stymietee

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Just another thought on any proposed Watson trade and that concerns Houston's propensity to make unbelievable trades to their detriment. (Tunsil, Hopkins, they are wise to want to trade J.J. Watt now.)

Anyway, I'm asking the board, is that the rationale behind wanting Watson yet being unwilling to make a smart move to get him? In effect, if Miami and Arizona could fleece them why not us for Watson?
 

gkekoa

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I would consider the following,

1st this season
2nd in 2022

Ion and Allen...we have longer on Payne and can resign Settle.
 

Stymietee

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Just another thought on any proposed Watson trade and that concerns Houston's propensity to make unbelievable trades to their detriment. (Tunsil, Hopkins, they are wise to want to trade J.J. Watt now.)

Anyway, I'm asking the board, is that the rationale behind wanting Watson yet being unwilling to make a smart move to get him? In effect, if Miami and Arizona could fleece them why not us for Watson?

If so, and the Jedi mind trick is possible, I'm offering, Taylor Heinicke, Steven Montez and our future 2065, 2076 firsts. :L:heh:
 
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Stymietee

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I would consider the following,

1st this season
2nd in 2022

Ion and Allen...we have longer on Payne and can resign Settle.
Not a bad offer, so it's 4 for 1 instead of 5 for 1 as I suggested. If you had to sweeten the pot a bit would you be willing to give up a 3rd perhaps another 2nd or some other player? Just trying to see what a 5-1 player trade would look like from you. ( I would eliminate one of those proposed 3rd's to get to 4-1))
 
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skinz2winz

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My Ad blocker wouldn't allow me to read the article, but with respect to what you wrote about Matt Ioannidis ; I like the dude too, but Washington did pretty well without him this past year. Might he had been a difference maker against some of those big runs this past year, absolutely! I have no credible argument against your point, but my counter is that getting Watson is going to take assets, some are talking about 3 1's to start and I disagree with that.

Why? Well, because when making any trade, a smart GM looks at the needs of his potential trading partner. In this case it's Houston, who sported one of the worse run stopping defenses in the NFL. Washington is loaded with really good players there and could absorb the loss of a Ioannidis or Tim Settle instead of another draft selection. Win-Win for both teams IMHO.
Or Ironman may have made a difference when TB ran all over us in the WC game. I still harp on the defensive game plan vs TB which deployed a 4 man rush, too many LB's and way too much zone. Brady stood back there and had his way, pitiful plan JDR!
 
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