So which is it?

[rtfgbfan]

Durant did 'break the league' but that may end soon. Then another superteam will.

I was just pointing out that fans want it both ways. You ain't great if you don't win rings, but you suck if you leave a team to get rings.

I think lots of fans hold Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Malone, etc in higher regard than a Durant even though none of those guys ever won a championship.

Although as was mentioned the NBA is different now than it was 25 years ago.

Who's to say those guys wouldn't do the same today

 

[SJ76]

Yes, once

kD joined the Ws after they won a title and also 73 games. Why isn't Rodman a ring chasing puss?

I can’t believe you are calling Rodman a puss and I think this whole ring chasing thing is really bothering you lol

1) Rodman was not a puss
2) Rodman didn’t have the Bulls down 3-1 and then lose the series, then jump ship.
3) Rodman was a role player that played D and rebounded. He wasn’t the go to guy
4) Rodman already had 2 rings


I don’t think you ever watched Rodman or Jordan play.

 

[Montalban]

Dude that's true in all pro sports, ever since the Yankees bought Babe Ruth. Come on man, what are ya a commie? Building a winner involves smart trading, smart drafting, smart signings, and luck, and that's always been true

Not to mention, the 2015 Warriors did it pretty much with the draft, and I could name many other examples

But at least it wasn't up to Ruth to just go and sign with Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby and Waler Johnson. The Yankees had to be astute enough to recognize the talent and the Red Sox had to be dumb enough to let him go. My beef is with the players doing this stuff which does away with the need for the things you said above that I bolded.

 

[Montalban]

I think lots of fans hold Barkley, Ewing, Stockton, Malone, etc in higher regard than a Durant even though none of those guys ever won a championship.

Although as was mentioned the NBA is different now than it was 25 years ago.

Who's to say those guys wouldn't do the same today

I disagree. None of those guys are the player Durant is. He's unique.

 

[rtfgbfan]

I disagree. None of those guys are the player Durant is. He's unique.

Durant could have played in any era, he's great no question.

My point was no matter how talented he is he was never going to win a title being the #1 guy, just like none of those guys I mentioned ever did. The difference is only Durant "sold out" as some say to get a ring. Well Malone kinda did but he was almost done anyway.

 

[Montalban]

Durant could have played in any era, he's great no question.

My point was no matter how talented he is he was never going to win a title being the #1 guy, just like none of those guys I mentioned ever did. The difference is only Durant "sold out" as some say to get a ring. Well Malone kinda did but he was almost done anyway.

OK. That may be true.

 

[raptorlife4]

in before this ends up being another Lakers thread

 

[MHSL82]

I’m different than other people. No one should really care about what my feelings about legacies are but I will say this in general: if something makes it easier for you to win because of other players, your legacy is still unfulfilled. (Or fulfilled if it already were.)

Or probably better stated, those to do it “on their own“ even though no one does it on their own, should have bigger and better legacies. If someone wins a ring, I say good for them. If they leave to go win a ring, I say good for them. But what I thought about them before isn’t better nor worse.

I’m not saying anyone who leaves is inheriting a ring, but it’s more impressive when somebody works hard to buy a cool car than to inherit one. The car is still cool and the guy is still happy, but I’m not really that impressed. It doesn’t mean that guy shouldn’t buy a car if he has the money. If he likes it, good for him.

 

[broncosmitty]

Why isn't Rodman a ring chasing puss?

Cuz he lost his mind without Chuck Daly.

 

[WiggyRuss]

the Pierce's and Dirk's and Kobe's and Bird's and Duncan's and Wade's and Olajawon's are the guys that are absolutely revered where they played--- playing their whole careers in one place and winning ships.

Like maybe what Westbrook, Curry, Lillard, -- hopefully guys like Giannis do their whole careers.

some guys are kind of cuaght in the middle like Nash and Harden who only found their true teams once they got moved due to circumstances out of their control- but who i sitll see as loyal guys.

I dont think anyone gave Kevin Garnett shit after staying in once place for over a decade, and moving on later in his career. He gave his all to Minnesota for a long time and left after taking responsibility for that franchise for a long time.

I think people have more of a problem with it when a guy like Durant does it, moves in the middle of his prime, from a team that was up 3-1 on a team he lost, and he gutlessly joins the competition.

Or an Anthony Davis whining out of his contract when he is 25 years old and still has AT LEAST 18 months before his player option is even due up.


if someone wants to move on- do so after really giving it a go and taking responsibility. At 25 I cant say that Davis has done that.

on the FAR end of that spectrum, is a scumbag like Butler- who seems like he is going to ping-pong from team to team and just being an angry loser and never taking responsibility. Butler really disgusts me.

 

[RobToxin]

Different eras, different structures yes, and different people. I’m sorry, no one will ever convince me that Jordan world have pulled some of this stuff, he would have literally died first.

Different era.

Jordan would have indeed "super-teamed". Difference there is the other superstars would have flocked to Jordan, not the other way around.

 

[DrewScott]

I am probably not the norm but I go with what my eyes saw. You aren’t going to convince me that Barkley and Ewing and the small group of guys with them with their talent was any less of a player than the same guy with a title, especially if that guy went title jumping like these guys now days. I’m sorry but the way a title is won means something to me, all titles are not created equal. I know I’m in the minority.

I'm with you, man. For instance the Dirk championship where he carried that Mavs team on his back was a much more earned ring than Durant has ever earned so far. All rings are not created equal.

 

[flyerhawk]

This whole argument is based on silly assumptions.

The league is fundamentally different today than it was 20,30,40,50 years ago.

Free agency 20 years ago was very different than it is today.

Free agency is so completely different today than it was 20 years ago. And the way the salary cap is structured today, there is little financial reason for players to remain with their home teams . Sure, they can get paid a few million more a year if they stay with their home team but so what? What's the difference between 150 million and a 170 million? Used to be that the league gave the home teams HUGE advantages to retain their players.

Does Michael Jordan say in Chicago for 7 years if he could have left and joined up withe The Dream?

We talk about the so called super teams but people ignore how much player movement there is every year outside of the elite players.

 

[flyerhawk]

Different era.

Jordan would have indeed "super-teamed". Difference there is the other superstars would have flocked to Jordan, not the other way around.

The Cavs were never able to get a Pippen for Lebron. It was a non-stop stream of duds they drafted or signed during his first stint. They step in poopoo and get 3 No. 1 picks and got enough to lure him back but they would never have got those picks had he stayed. And they never would have won a championship.

 

[RobToxin]

The Cavs were never able to get a Pippen for Lebron. It was a non-stop stream of duds they drafted or signed during his first stint. They step in poopoo and get 3 No. 1 picks and got enough to lure him back but they would never have got those picks had he stayed. And they never would have won a championship.

Yes, LeBron had to go find his own "Pippen".

And, another point about the 80s and 90s superstars and creating super teams.

1992 USA Olympic Basketball.

'Nuff said.

 

[msgkings322]

But at least it wasn't up to Ruth to just go and sign with Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby and Waler Johnson. The Yankees had to be astute enough to recognize the talent and the Red Sox had to be dumb enough to let him go. My beef is with the players doing this stuff which does away with the need for the things you said above that I bolded.

Wasn't at all a talent thing. The Boston owner went broke with a shitty musical he underwrote, and had to sell Ruth for the money to cover it. It was a classic wallet move, not about talent. How the hell wouldn't you recognize the talent of the 3 time WS champion pitcher, who could also hit a little? I mean, really Monty? Oh how astute LOL.

Yeah the players have done away with the need to do anything, now anyone can just open their wallet and build a winner, everyone is oh wait only one team at a time manages it.

I'm not even trolling you like I normally like to, seriously, just drop it. We can't get 'em all right.

 

[Sparhawk]

When a player reaches the end of a rookie contract and becomes a RFA, what happens if nobody offers them a contract? If they just sign a QO with the team that drafted them, are they now done after the next season? What happens if the draftee signs a 1 year max offer from another team and the team matches it? Are they an UFA next season?

I think a team should have 10 years control over a lottery prospect but there seems to be ways to get around that. Maybe lottery prospects should only receive a 5 year deal from another team when they become a RFA. I don't know.

However, if a team cannot figure out how to build a team around a franchise player, you really can't blame them for leaving.

 

[flyerhawk]

When a player reaches the end of a rookie contract and becomes a RFA, what happens if nobody offers them a contract? If they just sign a QO with the team that drafted them, are they now done after the next season? What happens if the draftee signs a 1 year max offer from another team and the team matches it? Are they an UFA next season?

I think a team should have 10 years control over a lottery prospect but there seems to be ways to get around that. Maybe lottery prospects should only receive a 5 year deal from another team when they become a RFA. I don't know.

However, if a team cannot figure out how to build a team around a franchise player, you really can't blame them for leaving.

Or maybe change the salary cap rules again and create a much starker difference between what home teams can offer a player and what other teams can offer a player. In many cases the only thing the home team can offer is more years.

 

[Montalban]

Wasn't at all a talent thing. The Boston owner went broke with a shitty musical he underwrote, and had to sell Ruth for the money to cover it. It was a classic wallet move, not about talent. How the hell wouldn't you recognize the talent of the 3 time WS champion pitcher, who could also hit a little? I mean, really Monty? Oh how astute LOL.

Yeah the players have done away with the need to do anything, now anyone can just open their wallet and build a winner, everyone is oh wait only one team at a time manages it.

I'm not even trolling you like I normally like to, seriously, just drop it. We can't get 'em all right.

Gotta learn to comprehend what you read. I'm right on this one and you are wrong...............But that's nothing unusual.

 

[trojanfan12]

Nobody likes it when a star player goes out super-teaming with teams other than the one they are fans of, joining up with other good players to win rings.

fify