So which is it?

[msgkings322]

Nobody likes it when a star player goes out super-teaming, joining up with other good players to win rings. KD, LeBron, whomever.

But then when a player stays his whole career in one city, staying loyal, but doesn't win it's "oh that guy he wasn't that great, couldn't get it done": Malone, Ewing, Stockton, Reggie Miller, etc.

Players know their legacy is defined by rings, why do we have a problem with them making those happen?

And no this isn't because I'm a Warriors fan. I got no problem with how it's done these days.

 

[SJ76]

Different eras. Different structure for salaries. Nba today are a bunch of kids entering the league. The players you mentioned were juniors and seniors (lifers) when they came out.


Currently this all started with a few guys all teaming up, got beat by the Mavs then won it the next year. But the Spurs really were not a super team when they beat Miami and they were older. After that it was the Cavs and Warriors if my memory serves me right.

Lebron kind of created the super team which is weird for a guy that good but then Durant just broke the league. Place the blame where you want.

 

[thunderc]

Different eras, different structures yes, and different people. I’m sorry, no one will ever convince me that Jordan world have pulled some of this stuff, he would have literally died first.

 

[msgkings322]

Different eras. Different structure for salaries. Nba today are a bunch of kids entering the league. The players you mentioned were juniors and seniors (lifers) when they came out.


Currently this all started with a few guys all teaming up, got beat by the Mavs then won it the next year. But the Spurs really were not a super team when they beat Miami and they were older. After that it was the Cavs and Warriors if my memory serves me right.

Lebron kind of created the super team which is weird for a guy that good but then Durant just broke the league. Place the blame where you want.

Durant did 'break the league' but that may end soon. Then another superteam will.

I was just pointing out that fans want it both ways. You ain't great if you don't win rings, but you suck if you leave a team to get rings.

 

[msgkings322]

Different eras, different structures yes, and different people. I’m sorry, no one will ever convince that Jordan world have pulled some of this stuff, he would have literally died first.

If Jordan was in his prime right now, and the team around him wasn't going to get it done...he'd bail for sure.

 

[SJ76]

Durant did 'break the league' but that may end soon. Then another superteam will.

I was just pointing out that fans want it both ways. You ain't great if you don't win rings, but you suck if you leave a team to get rings.

I think real b-ball fans appreciate a great player when he’s great. Karl Malone and Stockton were pretty salty b-ball players. Depends on your definition of great. Is top 20 all time great? Top 50?

If Lebron doesn’t team up in Miami who Knows. The bar gets set higher, then higher.. it’s the 1 up syndrome because that’s what they have to do to win championships

 

[thunderc]

If Jordan was in his prime right now, and the team around him wasn't going to get it done...he'd bail for sure.

That’s the thing, he made everyone better and people would have came to him no matter where he was. I know things are different now, way different, but there are some things he wouldn’t have done that are just common now.

 

[SJ76]

Durant did 'break the league' but that may end soon. Then another superteam will.

I was just pointing out that fans want it both ways. You ain't great if you don't win rings, but you suck if you leave a team to get rings.

Jordan got beatdown for years. Physically. It just wasn’t a thought back then. If you hated the knicks, you were not going to NY. Different eras man

 

[msgkings322]

I think real b-ball fans appreciate a great player when he’s great. Karl Malone and Stockton were pretty salty b-ball players. Depends on your definition of great. Is top 20 all time great? Top 50?

If Lebron doesn’t team up in Miami who Knows. The bar gets set higher, then higher.. it’s the 1 up syndrome because that’s what they have to do to win championships

But let's say LeBron never leaves Cleveland...and let's say he even still gets that one ring. And that's it, one ring. Same player, same skillset. Does anyone even remotely get to put him in the top 2 or top 5 even? 'Oh that guy only got one ring'. Or if Dirk didn't get his one ring...is he just another Ewing/Barkley/Stockton?

When we debate the greats, rings are a huge part of it. That's literally the ONLY thing keeping LeBron from being #1 overall. But we shit on guys for going out and getting them.

 

[msgkings322]

That’s the thing, he made everyone better and people would have came to him no matter where he was. I know things are different now, way different, but there are some things he wouldn’t have done that are just common now.

'Made everyone better'. LeBron does that too. It's just a whole different game now.

 

[msgkings322]

Jordan got beatdown for years. Physically. It just wasn’t a thought back then. If you hated the knicks, you were not going to NY. Different eras man

It's true it's a little different that way, but again, I don't have a problem with the new way of doing it. Legacies are determined by rings, and players need to get them however they can.

 

[SJ76]

But let's say LeBron never leaves Cleveland...and let's say he even still gets that one ring. And that's it, one ring. Same player, same skillset. Does anyone even remotely get to put him in the top 2 or top 5 even? 'Oh that guy only got one ring'. Or if Dirk didn't get his one ring...is he just another Ewing/Barkley/Stockton?

When we debate the greats, rings are a huge part of it. That's literally the ONLY thing keeping LeBron from being #1 overall. But we shit on guys for going out and getting them.

Yeah i still put Lebron top 5 for sure. Different circumstances. Lebron was a teenage kid labeled the king out of high school and never even left Ohio. Him and his posse were all over going to Miami for a lot of reasons.

Jordan went to school under Dean Smith after high school. Hit a game winning championship bucket as a freshman. He was taught a different game and it was a different time. Just tough to compare

 

[thunderc]

But let's say LeBron never leaves Cleveland...and let's say he even still gets that one ring. And that's it, one ring. Same player, same skillset. Does anyone even remotely get to put him in the top 2 or top 5 even? 'Oh that guy only got one ring'. Or if Dirk didn't get his one ring...is he just another Ewing/Barkley/Stockton?

When we debate the greats, rings are a huge part of it. That's literally the ONLY thing keeping LeBron from being #1 overall. But we shit on guys for going out and getting them.

I am probably not the norm but I go with what my eyes saw. You aren’t going to convince me that Barkley and Ewing and the small group of guys with them with their talent was any less of a player than the same guy with a title, especially if that guy went title jumping like these guys now days. I’m sorry but the way a title is won means something to me, all titles are not created equal. I know I’m in the minority.

 

[msgkings322]

I am probably not the norm but I go with what my eyes saw. You aren’t going to convince me that Barkley and Ewing and the small group of guys with them with their talent was any less of a player than the same guy with a title, especially if that guy went title jumping like these guys now days. I’m sorry but the way a title is won means something to me, all titles are not created equal. I know I’m in the minority.

You might be but that's actually a good way to look at it. Don't just say 'title = great'. Look at the player. That's why no reasonable fan puts Bill Russell at #1. And really you can't say definitively one guy is GOAT. There have been a handful of super duper mega greats. You can't scientifically say which one was 'best'. They were just the greatest.

 

[msgkings322]

Jordan got beatdown for years. Physically. It just wasn’t a thought back then. If you hated the knicks, you were not going to NY. Different eras man

Speaking of which, I distinctly remember when Rodman joined the Bulls, after being one of the guys who physically beat up on Jordan when he was with the hated rival Pistons. After the first game Jordan was asked what he thought of his new teammate who had like 18 rebounds.

"Dennis is great, he's a reboundin' fool..." he said with a smile. You overestimate the 'hate' between these guys even then

 

[SJ76]

Speaking of which, I distinctly remember when Rodman joined the Bulls, after being one of the guys who physically beat up on Jordan when he was with the hated rival Pistons. After the first game Jordan was asked what he thought of his new teammate who had like 18 rebounds.

"Dennis is great, he's a reboundin' fool..." he said with a smile. You overestimate the 'hate' between these guys even then

Rodman was a different cat and he joined the Bulls after they had already won 3 titles without the Worm.

You ever see Jordan or Rodman play live?

 

[msgkings322]

Rodman was a different cat and he joined the Bulls after they had already won 3 titles without the Worm.

You ever see Jordan or Rodman play live?

Yes, once

kD joined the Ws after they won a title and also 73 games. Why isn't Rodman a ring chasing puss?

 

[Montalban]

Nobody likes it when a star player goes out super-teaming, joining up with other good players to win rings. KD, LeBron, whomever.

But then when a player stays his whole career in one city, staying loyal, but doesn't win it's "oh that guy he wasn't that great, couldn't get it done": Malone, Ewing, Stockton, Reggie Miller, etc.

Players know their legacy is defined by rings, why do we have a problem with them making those happen?

And no this isn't because I'm a Warriors fan. I got no problem with how it's done these days.

Because it ruins the integrity of the game and the fairness of drafting and developing teams and using your organizational and management skills. Now its just your checkbook.

 

[Montalban]

Speaking of which, I distinctly remember when Rodman joined the Bulls, after being one of the guys who physically beat up on Jordan when he was with the hated rival Pistons. After the first game Jordan was asked what he thought of his new teammate who had like 18 rebounds.

"Dennis is great, he's a reboundin' fool..." he said with a smile. You overestimate the 'hate' between these guys even then

Yep, I remember the ridiculous cheek kisses between Johnson and Thomas.

 

[msgkings322]

Because it ruins the integrity of the game and the fairness of drafting and developing teams and using your organizational and management skills. Now its just your checkbook.

Dude that's true in all pro sports, ever since the Yankees bought Babe Ruth. Come on man, what are ya a commie? Building a winner involves smart trading, smart drafting, smart signings, and luck, and that's always been true

Not to mention, the 2015 Warriors did it pretty much with the draft, and I could name many other examples