So let's talk 2021 draft

[blstoker]

Not even able to admit you have a personal bias. You can disagree with my analysis but ive been more correct in my assessments than the rest of you.

Hardly anyone is willing to call out the team when they make a stupid decision.

I will be here to continue doing it and ill continue to be right.

i was right about ifedi, i was right about carpenter, i was right about penny, and ill be right about collier. And probably adams too.

And whatever bum they draft this year ill call that out too.

Oh and i was right about bevell

Ha haha, what a joke you are. My first sentence was an admission of my own biases, or at least acknowledging that I may have them. Which is a HELL of a lot more than you've ever done.

You were wrong about Ifedi, you were wrong about Carpenter, you are wrong Adams and probably wrong about Collier.

 

[MrS]

Ha haha, what a joke you are. My first sentence was an admission of my own biases, or at least acknowledging that I may have them. Which is a HELL of a lot more than you've ever done.

May have them? Thats your arrogance speaking

You were wrong about Ifedi, you were wrong about Carpenter, you are wrong Adams and probably wrong about Collier.

This is why you see value where there is none.

 

[blstoker]

This is why you see value where there is none.

No, that's your opinion. I see no value in your opinion, just as you see none in mine. The difference between us is that I understand that mine is opinion.

 

[returnofjakedog]

"Strange" how these 2 post that directly refuted the specific claims that Adams a) isn't worth 2 low first round picks, and b) he is going to require $15 million a year to keep, were completely ignored despite responding to all of my other posts.
Seems convenient on their part!

Look at a trade value chart.

*I would say that if Adams was to enter the draft now as a known commodity he would go between #1 and #3, but lets say he potentially could drop to #5. Is that reasonable?
*A #5 pick is rated at 1700 points. A #23 is rated at 760 points. So even with the slightly higher than expected pick given by us (I thought we would pick in the #25 to #28 range) the trade still favors us! Even with McDougald and 3rd round for fourth round swap it stll would slightly favor us!
*Note: #1 pick = 3000 points, #2 = 2600 #3 = 2000, #4 = 1800 so the value only goes up from there.

So from that perspective it is actually a small net positive, and certainly not a huge overpay.

In other words, if you went to the team and said "I'll trade you the #22 & #23 for your #5", they would turn it down and say that it wasn't enough.

Please explain to me again how this was a huge overpay of draft capital because the numbers just do not add up to support that theory.

(Waits for inevitable rant about how draft charts are wrong. I will pre-counter that with it is an established and accepted system that, while not perfect, gives a good general guideline that is at least more concrete than our opinions).

Also:

The franchise tag was $11.15 million a year for safeties and will probably be going down a little with the cap shrinking.

He might want $15 million. Everyone wants more. (My guess would be that he is starting his negotiation number intentionally high). But we have him at $9.8 million next year and then, worst case scenerio, up to two years under franchise tag at probably about $11 million and then $13 million. So I have serious doubts he is getting $15 million. I guess we will see.

 

[MrS]

So lets trade adams for 2 late firsts then. Good luck finding a team willing to do that, even after a HOF level season right?

On am actual draft note, RB rhamondre stevenson is right up our alley. Would probably have to take him in the 2nd, doubt he falls to the late 4th.

 

[returnofjakedog]

So lets trade adams for 2 late firsts then. Good luck finding a team willing to do that, even after a HOF level season right?

On am actual draft note, RB rhamondre stevenson is right up our alley. Would probably have to take him in the 2nd, doubt he falls to the late 4th.

Why would we want to trade the player we are going to be building our defense around for the next 6 or 7 years or more?

Maybe we should trade ALL of our best players! Just think of the draft capital we could have!!

 

[MrS]

Why would we want to trade the player we are going to be building our defense around for the next 6 or 7 years or more?

Maybe we should trade ALL of our best players! Just think of the draft capital we could have!!

Nobody would make that trade.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Nobody would make that trade.

Correct!

The Seahawks would not make that trade at this time.

Glad we can agree on that point.

 

[Screamin12th]

people all we have is eye test and production to go off so to assume your "reasoning" is the only correct one is arrogance and an extremely bloated self worth and assumed knowledge that you do not have. No ones opinion is bigger or better than anyone else's. Well unless you are part of the now in thing of cancel culture.

when people start spitting out opinions and then to themselves believing they are facts then you are just blinded and ignorant. open eyes look at it from every point of view and form your own opinion but always remember it's only an opinion and it's yours and not anyone else's so do not get defensive and just respect those opinions because their opinion holds as much weight as yours PERIOD. No if ands or buts about it.

DK Metcalf was one of the Best WR in the NFL last year and a #1 WR play, in my eyes, a bigger roll on a team than a Strong safety, i can tell you right now no one would trade 2 firsts and a 3rd to pick him up. It comes back to one thing, Value. The Value was not there and the Hawks paid a extremely high price for a Strong safety. Now we all know he was banged up all season long, sad thing is with the way he plays thats going to be how he is his whole career. Banged up and walking wounded.

also the average salary for the top 5 Safeties in the NFL is 14.8 Million so yep Adams wants to be the Highest paid Safety in the NFL that means 15 mill per year. Even if they franchise him they are going to be paying close to that 15 mill.

 

[Screamin12th]

The Jamal Adams we got this year was nothing close to the one we have seen the 3 years before in New York.

"Adams has just one pass defended through six games, and his Pro Football Focus coverage grade has dipped a whopping 40 points, plummeting from 87.5 in 2019 to 44.5 in 2020." this was written on Nov 27th 2020. His play was steady all season when he was on the field, no real high or low games. Many are looking at Adams as the same guy he was 1-2 even 3 years ago, no i look at the guy that played for the Hawks not the Jets and he was not worth the value we gave up. Thankfully he is young and has time to prove me wrong but by then either the Hawks will make him the Highest paid SS in the NFL or he will be gone and either one is not good for all that cheap talent and cap value we gave up. Was he worth a 1st? YES was he worth two 1sts and a 3rd and a player that is a average player ( nothing special ) at safety? No and it's really not even close. Would i rather have Adams or the Picks? With how the Hawks use first rounds and our success rate with them meh.

Lets hope next year he is closer to his 2nd season in the NFL and continues to grow. I wont hold my breath though because Adams treats his body like a missile at only 212 pounds. He is closer to Lockett in size than Kam. Hell Earl Thomas was only 5 foot 10 and 208 pounds and he was small. Adams is only 4 pounds heavier.

 

[returnofjakedog]

people all we have is eye test and production to go off so to assume your "reasoning" is the only correct one is arrogance and an extremely bloated self worth and assumed knowledge that you do not have. No ones opinion is bigger or better than anyone else's. Well unless you are part of the now in thing of cancel culture.

when people start spitting out opinions and then to themselves believing they are facts then you are just blinded and ignorant. open eyes look at it from every point of view and form your own opinion but always remember it's only an opinion and it's yours and not anyone else's so do not get defensive and just respect those opinions because their opinion holds as much weight as yours PERIOD. No if ands or buts about it.

DK Metcalf was one of the Best WR in the NFL last year and a #1 WR play, in my eyes, a bigger roll on a team than a Strong safety, i can tell you right now no one would trade 2 firsts and a 3rd to pick him up. It comes back to one thing, Value. The Value was not there and the Hawks paid a extremely high price for a Strong safety. Now we all know he was banged up all season long, sad thing is with the way he plays thats going to be how he is his whole career. Banged up and walking wounded.

also the average salary for the top 5 Safeties in the NFL is 14.8 Million so yep Adams wants to be the Highest paid Safety in the NFL that means 15 mill per year. Even if they franchise him they are going to be paying close to that 15 mill.

Right away, you are 100% wrong on the franchise tag numbers. The franchise tag for safties this year is $11 to 11.5 million range and, as I stated, this number will most likely be going down a little next year. So everything I wrote was correct.

Franchise, Transition and RFA Tenders | Over the Cap

Franchise, Transition and RFA Tenders | Over the Cap

overthecap.com

Agent's Take: Franchise tag and transition tag salaries for each position, plus more to know on both tags

You've got questions? We've got answers

www.google.com

The other stuff? Yes, it is opinion based but I have backed it up with tons of stats and facts (some you never bothered to even address). It is an online discussion on a debatable subject. That is what it is all about.

You sit here and rant about me somehow thinking my opinion is better than everyone else, which is not true and I have never implied anything of the sort, but you sit here and in the same breath insist YOUR OPINION (not fact) is more valid than mine??
WTF? You're better than that man.

I also think you are wrong on Metcalf's value. I fully expect that you could get 2 low firsts and exchange a 3rd for a 4th (You keep leaving the 4th pick out of the equation. I have to question that).

Oh.......and you can stick your stupid "cancel culture" comment. I never implied anything of the sort and have no idea why you would even say that.

"Bloated self worth" "Blinded and ignorant"
You can fuck right off with that arrogant bullshit.

Screw being civil. You were totally fucking wrong about the salary cap stuff but insisted you were right. Maybe your stupid rant was describing yourself?

 

[MrS]

Right away, you are 100% wrong on the franchise tag numbers. The franchise tag for safties this year is $11 to 11.5 million range and, as I stated, this number will most likely be going down a little next year.

Making a mountain out of a mole hill. Adams is getting $15 mil per at a minimum, dont know why you are losing your shit over the franchise tag #.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Making a mountain out of a mole hill. Adams is getting $15 mil per at a minimum, dont know why you are losing your shit over the franchise tag #.

Think it's safe to say the Seahawks bought at the max cost with Adams, but he can be a force, a different maker at times and those types of players are hard to come by. Lets hope the Seahawks make it work out for the team. I'll admit I'm a bit down about the cost in this draft because it's harsh and make it hard to see how they can improve. Guess they just need to hit with the picks they have.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Making a mountain out of a mole hill. Adams is getting $15 mil per at a minimum, dont know why you are losing your shit over the franchise tag #.

Again, the franchise tag is $11.4 million for safeties this year.
Again, I stated he will try to get as much as he can but with the cap reducing next year we can keep him the next 3 years for $34 million or so by using the franchise tag, worst case scenerio.

Sorry if facts get in the way of your opinion of what you think might happen.

 

[Screamin12th]

Right away, you are 100% wrong on the franchise tag numbers. The franchise tag for safties this year is $11 to 11.5 million range and, as I stated, this number will most likely be going down a little next year. So everything I wrote was correct.

Franchise, Transition and RFA Tenders | Over the Cap

Franchise, Transition and RFA Tenders | Over the Cap

overthecap.com

Agent's Take: Franchise tag and transition tag salaries for each position, plus more to know on both tags

You've got questions? We've got answers

www.google.com

The other stuff? Yes, it is opinion based but I have backed it up with tons of stats and facts (some you never bothered to even address). It is an online discussion on a debatable subject. That is what it is all about.

You sit here and rant about me somehow thinking my opinion is better than everyone else, which is not true and I have never implied anything of the sort, but you sit here and in the same breath insist YOUR OPINION (not fact) is more valid than mine??
WTF? You're better than that man.

I also think you are wrong on Metcalf's value. I fully expect that you could get 2 low firsts and exchange a 3rd for a 4th (You keep leaving the 4th pick out of the equation. I have to question that).

Oh.......and you can stick your stupid "cancel culture" comment. I never implied anything of the sort and have no idea why you would even say that.

"Bloated self worth" "Blinded and ignorant"
You can fuck right off with that arrogant bullshit.

Screw being civil. You were totally fucking wrong about the salary cap stuff but insisted you were right. Maybe your stupid rant was describing yourself?

Remember Adams wants to be the Highest paid "SAFETY" in the NFL not "STRONG SAFETY" The franchise tag is the average of the top 5 salaries. Ouch right?

NFL's highest paid safeties (average salary per year):

• Cardinals safety Budda Baker: $14.75 million.
• Bears safety Eddie Jackson: $14.6 million.
• Titans safety Kevin Byard: $14.1 million.
• Chiefs safety Tyrann Mathieu: $14 million.
• Redskins safety Landon Collins: $14 million.

 

[blstoker]

Remember Adams wants to be the Highest paid "SAFETY" in the NFL not "STRONG SAFETY" The franchise tag is the average of the top 5 salaries. Ouch right?

NFL's highest paid safeties (average salary per year):

• Cardinals safety Budda Baker: $14.75 million.
• Bears safety Eddie Jackson: $14.6 million.
• Titans safety Kevin Byard: $14.1 million.
• Chiefs safety Tyrann Mathieu: $14 million.
• Redskins safety Landon Collins: $14 million.

I think you're calculating it wrong. It's not just a simple average of the top 5 safeties in the league's average salary.

"The NFL starts by calculating a "franchise tag" amount for each of the prior five years. The franchise tag amount is the average of the top five salaries at each position for each year. Then the NFL adds up the last five franchise tag amounts and divides them by the prior five total salary-cap amounts.

The NFL takes this rolling five-year average of how much of the salary cap that position's franchise tag takes up, then takes that percentage of this year's salary cap as the non-exclusive offer amount."

After running the math myself - the rolling 5 year percentage is roughly 6.4% of the salary cap for safeties. 6.4% of the estimated $175 million salary cap for 2021 will be $11,200,000.

So, the estimated safety franchise tag is estimated to go down for the second year in a row.

Now, in 2022, if all this is true, the tag should rebound in a big way. The franchise tag will be somewhere around $13.4 million if the salary cap returns to 2020 levels (which would be over a million higher than it's ever been).

I've tried to link the article from bleacher report, but it won't attach. That's where the quote comes from.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Remember Adams wants to be the Highest paid "SAFETY" in the NFL not "STRONG SAFETY" The franchise tag is the average of the top 5 salaries. Ouch right?

NFL's highest paid safeties (average salary per year):

• Cardinals safety Budda Baker: $14.75 million.
• Bears safety Eddie Jackson: $14.6 million.
• Titans safety Kevin Byard: $14.1 million.
• Chiefs safety Tyrann Mathieu: $14 million.
• Redskins safety Landon Collins: $14 million.

Except I never said that. I said that worst case scenerio we have the possibility to use the franchise tag to keep him under contract for up to 3 years at a total of $33-34 million.
I provided links and you still don't acknowledge you are 100% wrong on that easily provable point.

I fully understand your other points.
*I understand that he isn't big for his position. So yes, how his body holds up is a concern.
*I understand he WANTS $15 million a year. I acknowledged that. But, again, that was never my point.

*I addressed your points on his coverage. He had some trouble with 2 obvious blown assignments early in the year but it can be attributed to no training camp, time of trade.
You post an quote from early in the season when he only had 1 PD, but don't acknowledge the obvious improvements that came as the year. After he came back from injury he had 5 additional PD and was by all advanced metrics an average pass defender. Talk to Brock and Saulk or any of the other local "talking heads" if you have an issue with thst because they ALL echo that sentiment.

Also you insist that Adams isn't worth 2 firsts but don't acknowledge my draft chart value numbers posts because.......they don't validate your opinion???

So basically I disagree with you, debate you, acknowledge that your points do have validity but I still disagree with you, and you go on a passive-aggressive rant where you say I have "Bloated self worth" and am "Blinded and ignorant!........because we disagree. You also bring up cancel culture for some non-existent reason like you're some sort of pathetic victim........because, again, I disagree with you?? Somehow your opinion on this highly debatable subject is more valid than mine?

Sorry I agree more with Seahawk's management than you opinion. You can have your own opinion and I respect that. But you can stuff your insults up your ass.

 

[MrS]

Again, the franchise tag is $11.4 million for safeties this year.
Again, I stated he will try to get as much as he can but with the cap reducing next year we can keep him the next 3 years for $34 million or so by using the franchise tag, worst case scenerio.

Sorry if facts get in the way of your opinion of what you think might happen.

You think he will be happy with that? He has already burned bridges on one team it would be foolish to assume he wont do the same here if he doesnt get what he wants.

15 mil per for him is inevitable if we want to keep him.

 

[returnofjakedog]

You think he will be happy with that? He has already burned bridges on one team it would be foolish to assume he wont do the same here if he doesnt get what he wants.

15 mil per for him is inevitable if we want to keep him.

Your speculative opinion of what you think will happen was never, ever my point. I fully agree that he wants $15 million. AGAIN, my point was that worst case scenerio we have him under contract control for the next 3 years for $33-34 million via tag. Of couse we wouldn't want to do that but we could if necessary.
As far as what actually happens, we will see.

 

[MrS]

Your speculative opinion of what you think will happen was never, ever my point. I fully agree that he wants $15 million. AGAIN, my point was that worst case scenerio we have him under contract control for the next 3 years for $33-34 million via tag. Of couse we wouldn't want to do that but we could if necessary.
As far as what actually happens, we will see.

But you disagree that he will get it? As a future HOFer is he not worth it?