So glad we decided.....

[SoCalWizFan]

I'll take a shot. I think a lot of fans see a head coach who is terrible at halftime adjustments, the mark of a good or bad coach. They see 3-13 as a way to get rid of a HC who they feel needs to be replaced. Not saying I subscribe to this. I am apathetic, I've not reached the point of openly rooting against my team. But I will admit to doing that the year before You Know Who was coming out.

Yep - if it goes in that direction I see no problem in dumping Gruden. You don't keep an inferior coach just for the sake of continuity. They got rid of both Spurrier and Zorn in a similar timeframe. In both cases it didn't indicate that they were impatient & the firing was a mistake. Rather - it indicated that the initial hirings were a mistake. That may be the case here especially since SM did not hire Gruden.

Having said that I wish the best for Gruden & hope that he proves all of his naysayers wrong.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'll take a shot. I think a lot of fans see a head coach who is terrible at halftime adjustments, the mark of a good or bad coach. They see 3-13 as a way to get rid of a HC who they feel needs to be replaced. Not saying I subscribe to this. I am apathetic, I've not reached the point of openly rooting against my team. But I will admit to doing that the year before You Know Who was coming out.

1. I will never root against the team. I dont care who is coming out in the draft.
2. After 17 games, can we really make a judgement on a coach who basically walked into a mess.
3, I think alot of fans want to see a coach who cant make adjustments because it justifies the idea that we get rid of him.

I still think the real hate against Gruden at this point is centered around other issues though.

 

[skinsdad62]

The Saints were 8-8; 8-8; 3-13 the 3 years prior to Brees. Prior to that they gave up their entire '99 draft and their first and third in 2000 for Ricky Williams. That is not a solid base, that's a franchise who hadn't won a damn thing. They got Brees, again coming off 3-13, and were immediately in the NFC Championship Game.

What does Peyton have to do with my argument? I was talking about being the worst team in the league, grabbing Luck the following draft, and becoming instant contenders. Both of those teams proved you don't need to build a team first before getting the QB in place. The Pats first turned to Bledsoe, then to Brady. Again the point is they were a 5 win team without a QB, with a great one in place they won it all the very next year. Again evidence of just what a top QB can do for a team.

that non solid base had all pro's will smith and jamal brown , duece mccalister fred jackson , reggie bush joe horn marcus colston jahri evans all pro guard plus ninkovich strief so the cuppard wasnt near bare

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Just because Im willing to admit the real issue doesnt mean every one else gets to ignore it. But I will ask you an honest question....

Give me one GOOD reason why any one is actually hoping the team fails after week one?? Seeing as no one has been able to name a top flight QB who is worthy of hoping the team fails for, IM waiting for an answer other than misplaced loyalty to a particular player??

I've seen peeps hate Snyder enough to be done with the Skins and as a result hope the team fails for that reason alone.

 

[Sharkinva]

I've seen peeps hate Snyder enough to be done with the Skins and as a result hope the team fails for that reason alone.

Very true. But I have seen/heard more people at the moment that hope the Jay\Kirk thing fail because they feel RG3 was given a raw deal. Now maybe, just maybe it was the beer talking, but I did hear alot of this at the game last week.

 

[Breed]

Very true. But I have seen/heard more people at the moment that hope the Jay\Kirk thing fail because they feel RG3 was given a raw deal. Now maybe, just maybe it was the beer talking, but I did hear alot of this at the game last week.

Fuck those fans. And they can go root for whatever team picks up Griffin's triflin ass next year.

 

[ehb5]

When I see people already saying they hope Gruden fails and Cousins fails, and making comments like we need to draft yet another QB...... To me that looks like they arent even hoping Cousins will improve. Maybe Im reading it wrong. But the fact that we have totally given up on a guy who has played a total of 15 games sounds kinda lame to me.. Im just saying. Especially in light of the fact that the last savior has played in twice as many games, had his ass kissed by the team, and fan base and regressed over the past two years. So dont get me wrong, but I think alot of the Kirk hate (which is what it is) has to do more with misplaced loyalty than any thing else.

Im not sure if anybody has said that but i sure havent so I dont know why you would think I want to see them fail. And Cousins is lucky to be getting a season here to prove himself. Hes a 4th round pick with the worst interception rate in HISTORY through this point in a career. RG3 was a far more talented player with a far better collegiate career and far better success in the NFL despite it being short lived and a fluke. So obviously he got more of a chance . He deserved it. In the end theres like a 99% chance we're moving on from both because neither has proven anything. And that's fine. No Kirk hate here, just being realistic.

 

[ehb5]

Just because Im willing to admit the real issue doesnt mean every one else gets to ignore it. But I will ask you an honest question....

Give me one GOOD reason why any one is actually hoping the team fails after week one?? Seeing as no one has been able to name a top flight QB who is worthy of hoping the team fails for, IM waiting for an answer other than misplaced loyalty to a particular player??

But nobody is rooting for that (at least on here). Youre just accusing people of it.

 

[j_y19]

Yea because Kirk has shown tons of potential. Unless he breaks out this year - move on and try to get a franchise QB.

This is the exact attitude that convinces me we should not chase a high profile QB. Kirk has started 9 games .and you are already willing to give him the boot. So we bring in the next guy and he sucks for his first year or two, which inexperienced QBs have a tendency to do. Do we jettison him then also and move onto the next guy? When does it end? Fans like you will not be happy until we finally land that golden goose. Of course that may take 50 years an a crap load of wasted draft picks. How about we give KC the same opportunity we gave Griffin before we determine he is trash?

 

[j_y19]

Im not sure if anybody has said that but i sure havent so I dont know why you would think I want to see them fail. And Cousins is lucky to be getting a season here to prove himself. Hes a 4th round pick with the worst interception rate in HISTORY through this point in a career. RG3 was a far more talented player with a far better collegiate career and far better success in the NFL despite it being short lived and a fluke. So obviously he got more of a chance . He deserved it. In the end theres like a 99% chance we're moving on from both because neither has proven anything. And that's fine. No Kirk hate here, just being realistic.

Hah! You need to dig a bit deeper into history, pal. He is not even close. Terry Bradshaw threw an int every 10 pass attempts his rookie year. Of course he was given a chance to learn. He turned out alright, don't you think? KC isn't even in the top 10. Now you are just spewing garbage and trying to salvage an indefensible position with made up facts.

 

[j_y19]

Actually the debate with Dad is just how much you need a good QB. He maintains a good QB is not necessary, a game manager is just fine provided the team around him is great. I disagree strongly.


I'm not claiming you need Tom Brady. But trying to win it all and be constant title contenders with the likes of Nick Foles? Now that's fool's gold. So why not continue the search and try to get one at say the Rivers level? It could change your team's future for 15 years. I agree it's chasing the rainbow and teams over pay with picks like Ponder every year. But it just shows how football people understand the value of a good QB, personnel people understand without one you have no chance.

How many picks have we "wasted" again once you remove the Griffin trade? I count 3 #1's in over 20 years and 2 of them were spent on Jason Campbell (Thanks Joe Gibbs).

Not to defend dad, as he can do just fine himself, but I don't think he ever said you don't need a good QB. He just believes you don't need a franchise QB as proven by his examples of game managers that have won the SB. Game managers are good QBs.

 

[ehb5]

Hah! You need to dig a bit deeper into history, pal. He is not even close. Terry Bradshaw threw an int every 10 pass attempts his rookie year. Of course he was given a chance to learn. He turned out alright, don't you think? KC isn't even in the top 10. Now you are just spewing garbage and trying to salvage an indefensible position with made up facts.

Against his peers I should clarify but since that is more accurate anyway I stand by my original point. And the people around him are horrible. So no Im not spewing garbage and no he doesn't deserve the opportunity. If he does well great.

 

[ehb5]

This is the exact attitude that convinces me we should not chase a high profile QB. Kirk has started 9 games .and you are already willing to give him the boot. So we bring in the next guy and he sucks for his first year or two, which inexperienced QBs have a tendency to do. Do we jettison him then also and move onto the next guy? When does it end? Fans like you will not be happy until we finally land that golden goose. Of course that may take 50 years an a crap load of wasted draft picks. How about we give KC the same opportunity we gave Griffin before we determine he is trash?

1.he's getting this year
2. He's a mid round pick from a different fo and coaching staff with a decent amount of playing time over 3 years who has played horribly with it.

 

[JonBlaze]

How long are we gonna hear excuses for Cousins now The dude is a walking turnover and is allergic to winning. At some point, you are what you are. He's far from having the rookie excuse despite having limited starting game experience. Comparing him to Terry Bradshaw, one out of hundreds of QBs that have come out is hanging your hat on a very tiny hook. Yeah Terry overcame a shit start. He also had the greatest team surrounding him when he got more experience. That's not and it can't happen here. Free agency and salary caps prevent that.

This is not me rooting for Cousins to fail. This is not me angling for a better draft pick position. I cheered my ass off on Sunday only to be let down yet again. This is me making a decision on how I think the QB situation is right now in Washington. It sucks and it won't get better with any of the QBs on the roster. The only way I could see it improving is if that RG3 guy decided he was cool with the pistol/read option offense and even then I think he's too broken in the head to ever get back to where he was.

Now that I've said that, I hope I've jinxed myself and Cousins stares down that Rams DL and lights em up in an upset W.

 

[Sharkinva]

Against his peers I should clarify but since that is more accurate anyway I stand by my original point. And the people around him are horrible. So no Im not spewing garbage and no he doesn't deserve the opportunity. If he does well great.

SO right, you arent hoping he fails because you have already proclaimed him garbage after 9 starts and 11 games total.

Well now that clears up alot.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

that non solid base had all pro's will smith and jamal brown , duece mccalister fred jackson , reggie bush joe horn marcus colston jahri evans all pro guard plus ninkovich strief so the cuppard wasnt near bare

LOL Dad. They were 3-13. You are what your record says you are.

What you are doing is no different than rattling off the names of All Pros Ryan Kerrigan, Alfred Morris, Trent Williiams, solid pros like Keenan Robinson etc and claiming the Redskins have a solid base. Both teams sucked, the difference is NO got a QB the next year and were instant contenders.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Hah! You need to dig a bit deeper into history, pal. He is not even close. Terry Bradshaw threw an int every 10 pass attempts his rookie year. Of course he was given a chance to learn. He turned out alright, don't you think? KC isn't even in the top 10. Now you are just spewing garbage and trying to salvage an indefensible position with made up facts.

But this is not Kirk's rookie season, this is year 4 and he has played in every season. . He has also been handed the starting gig, twice. Pretty good considering he was backing up the Offensive Rookie of the Year. People claim Griffin was ruined by playing too early? Well Kirk has been given the other side of the coin. He has gained experience while also being brought along slowly. I'm told that is the ideal way to develop a QB Again we are in Year 4.

At the end of this year I can't see how anyone can say he has not had a fair chance to prove himself. Again I think he will end up playing OK. But I won't apologize for wanting more than an OK starting QB as I watch teams with good QBs playing deep into January year after year after year.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Not to defend dad, as he can do just fine himself, but I don't think he ever said you don't need a good QB. He just believes you don't need a franchise QB as proven by his examples of game managers that have won the SB. Game managers are good QBs.

And his examples were the exception. Did anyone bother to look at the link of starting Super Bowl QBs I posted? Didn't think so. To repeat there are no more than 7:-9 good QBs in the league at any given yeasr yet they represent over 2/3 of all the starting SB quarterbacks. This is even more true today with the new rules making it more of a QB driven league. Again I'm not claimingnyou have to have Tom Brady but trying with a Kirk Cousins has proven to be the hard road.

Pay attention guys to how many teams in the end have top QBs

 

[j_y19]

How long are we gonna hear excuses for Cousins now The dude is a walking turnover and is allergic to winning. At some point, you are what you are. He's far from having the rookie excuse despite having limited starting game experience. Comparing him to Terry Bradshaw, one out of hundreds of QBs that have come out is hanging your hat on a very tiny hook. Yeah Terry overcame a shit start. He also had the greatest team surrounding him when he got more experience. That's not and it can't happen here. Free agency and salary caps prevent that.

This is not me rooting for Cousins to fail. This is not me angling for a better draft pick position. I cheered my ass off on Sunday only to be let down yet again. This is me making a decision on how I think the QB situation is right now in Washington. It sucks and it won't get better with any of the QBs on the roster. The only way I could see it improving is if that RG3 guy decided he was cool with the pistol/read option offense and even then I think he's too broken in the head to ever get back to where he was.

Now that I've said that, I hope I've jinxed myself and Cousins stares down that Rams DL and lights em up in an upset W.

You just proved our point. Terry had a great team surrounding him as he grew out of his ways. Terry isn't the only one, I've cited numerous franchise QBs that started off as interception machines. That's exactly what we are preaching. Build the team, find a QB that has the skill sets, and let them develop. No one is saying KC ha to be that guy, but let's at least give him a chance to grow before we throw him aside and waste another first pick, or 2, on another over hyped. QB. Thanks.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

2014 Championship Game QBs

Brady, Luck, Rodgers, Wilson

2013

Brady, Peyton, Wilson, Kap


2012

Ryan, Kap, Brady, Flacco

Seeing a pattern here? Again I coinsider Wilson to be a top QB, not sure how many more big plays in big moments the guy needs to make before others agree. I also maintain that you don''t have to have an all time great, just a top QB and yes I put Matt Ryan in that catagory.

So you have Kap and Flacco represent 3 out of the 12 appearances and again Flacco plays like a franchise QB in the playoffs. And keep in mind there are only 9 or so of them throughout the league yet they represented 75% of the spots.