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Ok so what is the plan then guys

tomcat1

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tell it to RR . look if we dont see a superbowl before we die it wont be because we played haskins 16 games this year . i played college basketball at a JC . the players we have on the field right now are playing to win . we re looking at our young guys to see who has a future with us . but the cold hard truth is this TEAM isnt a winning team our even a 500 team . its a 3-4 win team tops . we are about to go 1-5 no matter who the qb is . we arent beating dallas , seatle ,baltimore rams 49ers . we can beat the bengals panthers giants . eagles and lions but they can beat us too

Dad, I'm not going to change your mind and you are certainly not going to change my mind on the direction our team should go from this day forward. The bottom line is that at the end of the day our coaches, our management, and more specifically our owner will make this decision and you and I will have nothing to do with it.

More important than any of this Monday morning QB talk is that I hope you are feeling better from your bout with the Chinese plague.
 

skinsdad62

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Dad, I'm not going to change your mind and you are certainly not going to change my mind on the direction our team should go from this day forward. The bottom line is that at the end of the day our coaches, our management, and more specifically our owner will make this decision and you and I will have nothing to do with it.

More important than any of this Monday morning QB talk is that I hope you are feeling better from your bout with the Chinese plague.
I am doing very well , thanks !!! I am fully back to normal and leave for Texas Friday night . A 17
Hr drive
 

skinz2winz

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I have been here for a long time . I could go back and pull everyone’s thoughts on the hiring and the plan moving forward .

my question is fairly simple . What are we trying to accomplish ?

I never mentioned tanking I laid out scenarios

what’s better for the team Haskins getting 6 wins Or Allen getting them ?

if you feel Allen is the franchise qb then fine ,say it and let’s put him in and build around him

if you don’t think he is the franchise qb then what are we doing ?

I am not sure Haskins is anything . What I am sure about is 3 games isn’t enough.
You are correct here sir, 3 games means nothing. Haskins should get a full season under his belt and MORE play makers to boot. The guy clearly has talent, that's undeniable. What he doesn't have is experience in this league. RR's plan is to build with the young guys so let him build. This is virtually year 1 of a 3 year plan to contend for playoff's. We are not even close to half way point of year 1 so all the so called fans asking Haskins to be benched for Allen can/should go kick rocks. Must be patient and let RR continue to roll out his plan. In Ron I trust!
 

skinsdad62

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Sportster 72

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Like you have said many times dad, I never thought of this team as playoff caliber.
 

duke1861

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tell it to RR . look if we dont see a superbowl before we die it wont be because we played haskins 16 games this year . i played college basketball at a JC . the players we have on the field right now are playing to win . we re looking at our young guys to see who has a future with us . but the cold hard truth is this TEAM isnt a winning team our even a 500 team . its a 3-4 win team tops . we are about to go 1-5 no matter who the qb is . we arent beating dallas , seatle ,baltimore rams 49ers . we can beat the bengals panthers giants . eagles and lions but they can beat us too

I do firmly believe we have players doing all they can to win. I also agree that we are a 3-4 win team. You are spot on. The problem is the lack of talent we have.

The problem was RR and Kyle Smith's approach. It made no sense. Several posters said that RR wants to "see what he has" this year. He should know what he has statisitcally. They were the 2nd worst team in the NFL (maybe worst team) with the worst offense in the league. These are statistically proven facts. He knew that taking the job.

I do not believe in taking a year to evaluate players and "seeing" what you have. If any of us took over department or business that was dead last in sales/revenue, none of us would ask to take a full year to evaluate the situation and employees while the company continues to tank without making strategic improvements. I am sure that is taught day 1 of any MBA program class. Taking that approach would likely cost someone their job.

I get that this isn't the business world but there are similarities obviously. RR brought in a 1st year OC. He advocated bringing in a career back up/journey man tackle (Lucas) and a back up Guard (Schweitzer) to anchor a poor line to being with. For skill positions and "weapons" for his last place offense and to help his rookie QB he decided to bring in a career back/journey man RB (McKissic) who has less than 500 rushing yards in 4 years and a converted QB who was a career special teamer/back up with less than 400 career receiving yard (Thomas) to be his TE. He then decided that McKissic and Thomas were starters.

Realistically speaking and looking at this objectively from the outside, the above decisions were irresponsible in the hope of generating an offense and developing a young QB. Draftwise, I like the picks of Saahdiq Charles and Antonio Gibson, but they were mid-round picks and rookies who need time to develop. Counting on them to anchor the offense at this time makes no sense.

To conclude, I am sorry, what RR and Smith did this offseason was foolish and idiotic. Given the fact that they chose a 1st time OC to run the offense with a rookie QB and then followed up with bargin bend free agents literally makes no sense. The offense needed to protect Haskins and get him weapons. At this point, they have clearly failed to do that. The team was never going to win a SB and that is understandable. The team has an identity issue obviously and RR is trying to fix this. This isn't "Hoosiers" or "Remember the Titans" in the fact that tough love and hard work will overcome lack of talent. We could very well win out the rest of the season and go to the playoffs. It could happen. However, that is highly unlikely and I stick by my comments in the offseason that RR/Smith completely botched the offseason and could put Haskins career in jeopardy as our franchise QB.
 

Sportster 72

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I do firmly believe we have players doing all they can to win. I also agree that we are a 3-4 win team. You are spot on. The problem is the lack of talent we have.

The problem was RR and Kyle Smith's approach. It made no sense. Several posters said that RR wants to "see what he has" this year. He should know what he has statisitcally. They were the 2nd worst team in the NFL (maybe worst team) with the worst offense in the league. These are statistically proven facts. He knew that taking the job.

I do not believe in taking a year to evaluate players and "seeing" what you have. If any of us took over department or business that was dead last in sales/revenue, none of us would ask to take a full year to evaluate the situation and employees while the company continues to tank without making strategic improvements. I am sure that is taught day 1 of any MBA program class. Taking that approach would likely cost someone their job.

I get that this isn't the business world but there are similarities obviously. RR brought in a 1st year OC. He advocated bringing in a career back up/journey man tackle (Lucas) and a back up Guard (Schweitzer) to anchor a poor line to being with. For skill positions and "weapons" for his last place offense and to help his rookie QB he decided to bring in a career back/journey man RB (McKissic) who has less than 500 rushing yards in 4 years and a converted QB who was a career special teamer/back up with less than 400 career receiving yard (Thomas) to be his TE. He then decided that McKissic and Thomas were starters.

Realistically speaking and looking at this objectively from the outside, the above decisions were irresponsible in the hope of generating an offense and developing a young QB. Draftwise, I like the picks of Saahdiq Charles and Antonio Gibson, but they were mid-round picks and rookies who need time to develop. Counting on them to anchor the offense at this time makes no sense.

To conclude, I am sorry, what RR and Smith did this offseason was foolish and idiotic. Given the fact that they chose a 1st time OC to run the offense with a rookie QB and then followed up with bargin bend free agents literally makes no sense. The offense needed to protect Haskins and get him weapons. At this point, they have clearly failed to do that. The team was never going to win a SB and that is understandable. The team has an identity issue obviously and RR is trying to fix this. This isn't "Hoosiers" or "Remember the Titans" in the fact that tough love and hard work will overcome lack of talent. We could very well win out the rest of the season and go to the playoffs. It could happen. However, that is highly unlikely and I stick by my comments in the offseason that RR/Smith completely botched the offseason and could put Haskins career in jeopardy as our franchise QB.
I still don't have a problem with what they did. I wouldn't want it to be what they do every year. They are going to look like geniuses if the cap drops as predicted due to fans not being allowed in games.

They could have paid a couple of players and still been a losing team. JMO but the time to spend money is when you know you are close and are filling the last couple of pieces in the puzzle.
 

duke1861

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I still don't have a problem with what they did. I wouldn't want it to be what they do every year. They are going to look like geniuses if the cap drops as predicted due to fans not being allowed in games.

They could have paid a couple of players and still been a losing team. JMO but the time to spend money is when you know you are close and are filling the last couple of pieces in the puzzle.

I think this year was different because you have so many unknowns. IF the goal was to confirm if Haskins is the guy, then we are doing a poor job of making that judgement. He simply does not have the talent or protection for us to get a good feel if he is the guy. If he isn't the guy, then we are going to have to go back to square 1 in 2021 and draft another QB. We will then once again have to find that rookie weapons and protection. These problems will not go away on their own and have to be addressed sooner than later. Perhaps the goal is to dedicate the bulk of our early picks on the offense?

We do not need to go Vinny style but we have to get more talent on this team. If the cap is down in 2021, you are right, we look really good. We are not the best drafting team so it could take several years if we rely mostly on the draft. We are probably middle of the road I would assume but our history of 2nd round picks is pathetic in the past several drafts. I think the jury is still out on Kyle Smith so who knows if we can given him and his scouting department the keys yet. Bottom line, we need lots of talent and it must come from somewhere. I would like to go with the draft but we don't have 10 first round picks unfortantely. We will need some free agents brought in to start at some point obviously.
 

Sportster 72

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I think this year was different because you have so many unknowns. IF the goal was to confirm if Haskins is the guy, then we are doing a poor job of making that judgement. He simply does not have the talent or protection for us to get a good feel if he is the guy. If he isn't the guy, then we are going to have to go back to square 1 in 2021 and draft another QB. We will then once again have to find that rookie weapons and protection. These problems will not go away on their own and have to be addressed sooner than later. Perhaps the goal is to dedicate the bulk of our early picks on the offense?

We do not need to go Vinny style but we have to get more talent on this team. If the cap is down in 2021, you are right, we look really good. We are not the best drafting team so it could take several years if we rely mostly on the draft. We are probably middle of the road I would assume but our history of 2nd round picks is pathetic in the past several drafts. I think the jury is still out on Kyle Smith so who knows if we can given him and his scouting department the keys yet. Bottom line, we need lots of talent and it must come from somewhere. I would like to go with the draft but we don't have 10 first round picks unfortantely. We will need some free agents brought in to start at some point obviously.
I think the jury is out on everyone but about 5-10 players and this includes the coaching staff and FO.

We know we need more talent, we just differed on when and how to get it.

We may have to go back for another QB. I was not in love with Haskins to start with but at pick 17 it didn't bother me as much as moving up to get him. I still hope he works out because it would be good for the team and organization.

I
 

gkekoa

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I do firmly believe we have players doing all they can to win. I also agree that we are a 3-4 win team. You are spot on. The problem is the lack of talent we have.

The problem was RR and Kyle Smith's approach. It made no sense. Several posters said that RR wants to "see what he has" this year. He should know what he has statisitcally. They were the 2nd worst team in the NFL (maybe worst team) with the worst offense in the league. These are statistically proven facts. He knew that taking the job.

I do not believe in taking a year to evaluate players and "seeing" what you have. If any of us took over department or business that was dead last in sales/revenue, none of us would ask to take a full year to evaluate the situation and employees while the company continues to tank without making strategic improvements. I am sure that is taught day 1 of any MBA program class. Taking that approach would likely cost someone their job.

I get that this isn't the business world but there are similarities obviously. RR brought in a 1st year OC. He advocated bringing in a career back up/journey man tackle (Lucas) and a back up Guard (Schweitzer) to anchor a poor line to being with. For skill positions and "weapons" for his last place offense and to help his rookie QB he decided to bring in a career back/journey man RB (McKissic) who has less than 500 rushing yards in 4 years and a converted QB who was a career special teamer/back up with less than 400 career receiving yard (Thomas) to be his TE. He then decided that McKissic and Thomas were starters.

Realistically speaking and looking at this objectively from the outside, the above decisions were irresponsible in the hope of generating an offense and developing a young QB. Draftwise, I like the picks of Saahdiq Charles and Antonio Gibson, but they were mid-round picks and rookies who need time to develop. Counting on them to anchor the offense at this time makes no sense.

To conclude, I am sorry, what RR and Smith did this offseason was foolish and idiotic. Given the fact that they chose a 1st time OC to run the offense with a rookie QB and then followed up with bargin bend free agents literally makes no sense. The offense needed to protect Haskins and get him weapons. At this point, they have clearly failed to do that. The team was never going to win a SB and that is understandable. The team has an identity issue obviously and RR is trying to fix this. This isn't "Hoosiers" or "Remember the Titans" in the fact that tough love and hard work will overcome lack of talent. We could very well win out the rest of the season and go to the playoffs. It could happen. However, that is highly unlikely and I stick by my comments in the offseason that RR/Smith completely botched the offseason and could put Haskins career in jeopardy as our franchise QB.

So who would you have brought in?
 

duke1861

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I think the jury is out on everyone but about 5-10 players and this includes the coaching staff and FO.

We know we need more talent, we just differed on when and how to get it.

We may have to go back for another QB. I was not in love with Haskins to start with but at pick 17 it didn't bother me as much as moving up to get him. I still hope he works out because it would be good for the team and organization.

I
That is fair. I don't really know if Smith is our GM of the future. I was not to high on Haskins either. His lack of experience, OSU's poor QB history and Urban Meyer's system QB failures in the NFL (outside of Smith)

I would love to draft 90% of the team but we historically aren't the best drafting team. We have also swung and missed on some 1st rounders lately (Josh Doctson and possibly Dwayne Haskins). Our 2nd rounders have been pretty bad recently (Cravens, Guice, Murphy, Amerson). To build through the draft, we need to be hitting on these 1st and 2nd round picks each year. I think we have to use FA to supplement the draft until we get a good core in place.

I advocating diving into free agency in 2020 for the offense as to get Haskins immediate help. He simply does not have time to allow core OLinemen and skill players to develop and needed immediate help.
 

Sportster 72

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That is fair. I don't really know if Smith is our GM of the future. I was not to high on Haskins either. His lack of experience, OSU's poor QB history and Urban Meyer's system QB failures in the NFL (outside of Smith)

I would love to draft 90% of the team but we historically aren't the best drafting team. We have also swung and missed on some 1st rounders lately (Josh Doctson and possibly Dwayne Haskins). Our 2nd rounders have been pretty bad recently (Cravens, Guice, Murphy, Amerson). To build through the draft, we need to be hitting on these 1st and 2nd round picks each year. I think we have to use FA to supplement the draft until we get a good core in place.

I advocating diving into free agency in 2020 for the offense as to get Haskins immediate help. He simply does not have time to allow core OLinemen and skill players to develop and needed immediate help.
I agree about 2nd round pics for the most part.

I also agree about OLine. Not sure how we get there but the 6 most important players on offense are the QB and the OLine. That is a lot of positions to fill.
 

tomcat1

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I agree about 2nd round pics for the most part.

I also agree about OLine. Not sure how we get there but the 6 most important players on offense are the QB and the OLine. That is a lot of positions to fill.

And particularly a good offensive left tackle is needed to protect a right handed QB, right coach?
 

duke1861

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I agree about 2nd round pics for the most part.

I also agree about OLine. Not sure how we get there but the 6 most important players on offense are the QB and the OLine. That is a lot of positions to fill.

I am hoping we get that LT with our 1st round pick. I want a Guard early as well. I want to duplicate what we did with the DLine. Draft OLine early and often.

We need a TE as well. A TE is a young QBs best friend. Look at what Kelce, Andrews and Kittle have done for those three teams. I am still confused and disappointed that RR thought and possibly still think that Logan Thomas is the answer.
 

skinsdad62

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my 1st 2 picks are sewell at LT and pitts at TE , if and only if haskins shows he is the guy . if not you have tp go qb
 

duke1861

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my 1st 2 picks are sewell at LT and pitts at TE , if and only if haskins shows he is the guy . if not you have tp go qb
That would be fantastic if that happened. With the two 3rd round picks, I would like a Guard and a WR
 

skinsdad62

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That would be fantastic if that happened. With the two 3rd round picks, I would like a Guard and a WR
yep i think so duke or safety depending at the value
 

duke1861

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yep i think so duke or safety depending at the value
Agreed 100%. Lets address that FS spot for years to come. Hopefully this is a great draft and we can fill those holes with young, talented draft picks.
 
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