• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

Ok so what is the plan then guys

tomcat1

Well-Known Member
3,435
1,406
173
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Location
Raleigh, NC
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I do not plan on sticking around but I have been reading the board every month or so since I left. I will offer my thoughts even though its early regarding " a plan". With football only related matters, not the general state of the organization and Snyder:

1. Hiring Ron Rivera: This could potential have been a mistake.
It way too early to say it was a mistake or to even think about firing him or saying anything like that. However, the warning signs are there.
First of all, he was not really succesful at Carolina and I have pointed that out. In 9 seasons, he only had 3 winning seasons. That is not good and tells me he is not that great of a coach. I was on board when the hire was made but after seeing the Carolina fanbase reaction and doing some basic research, this potentially could have been a mistake. Of course, he could win the Super Bowl next year. We do not know. His refusal to call timeouts late in the game are head scratching and make no sense.
I am very hesitant to give a HC full control of personel and believe the GM brings in the players. It seldom works out the other way and caused Holmgreen and Shanahan to lose their jobs.
RR wanted to bringyes men instead of talent. I believe locker room culture is important but I would rather go with talent. The Chiefs are a great example. Kelce is a jerk and Hill's off the field behavior is deplorable but they are the Super Bowl champs. RR brought in "culture" guys but NOT the talent. That is a problem as talent trumps culture. Maybe his plan is to do this in year 2 but he has a possible franchise QB he is trying to save and so far, his plan has backfired. RR even admitted that Haskins is has a time limit.

2. The offseason was a disaster:
I said this several times and was run off the board for suggesting this. Dean said that Haskins would get weapons in FA. That never happened period. He has little to no talent around him at all. I get Haromon and Guice losing his mind but you cannot keep a straight face and say Logan Thomas and JD McKissic are weapons. They are cast offs and back ups...not starters.
Regarding the OLine, I said that we should have let Scherrif walk but Skinsdad and others wanted him. I said he was injury prone and his play was slipping. He could not even make it past 1 game. Its his 3rd trip to IR with 3 different injuries. History repeats itself and the team failed to act on that. We are paying him absurd money to stay injured and could have brought in a replacement. We did not do that.
The rest of the OLine is a mess and RR did NOT address it. Haskins is under current pressure and the running lanes are not there. I repeatedly called for OLine help via FA or with additional draft picks, but it did not happen. RR's plan to protect Haskins with mid-round picks and career journeymen makes no sense at all and he has put the team in a difficult position.

3. The fate of Haskins:
Because of the lack of direction RR has taken, we simply do not know what we have in Haskins. Is he not an NFL QB or does he simply not have the talent around him to succeed? We will have to go into 2021 with that same question because we will not be acquiring additional talent. Do we draft a QB with our 1st pick or draft talent to support Haskins? Nobody knows at this time. What we do know is that RR and Smith botched addressing the offense this year and that was the main goal. We had the worst offense in 2019 and it is not really improved.

Bottom line, there isn't much of a plan now because of the poor decisions the FO made in the offseason. We have numerous holes for 2021 such as LT, RG, WR, TE, FS, CB. We do have cap room and should have the draft picks but does anyone really trust RR and Smith after last year's disaster?

Other points:
-We all saw the Sean Davis disaster coming
-Hopefully RR gets healthy and beats cancer
-Do we trade Kerrigan since we are not going anywhere?
-What is the draft approach for 2021? Franchise QB or LT?
-How much do we use in cap room to fix the glaring lack of talent we have?
-Perhaps RR helps instill a better culture but is a transition coach for us?
-The focus on building the defense first and ignoring the offense mostly has put us in a bad spot.

Are you a professional sports writer? If not, you should be. Great writing!
 

duke1861

Well-Known Member
1,409
183
63
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Time will tell I guess. Most importantly, do they adjust, if it isn’t working.

I hate to keep talking about 2021 but I think we have a real opportunity to get better in that offseason. I love that we have two 3rd round picks. I anticipate we have earlier draft picks do to record.

With at least two of those first 4 picks, I want to see a LT and Guard. We need to build our OLine the same way we built our DLine...through the draft.

The other two picks should be a TE and either a CB or RB. We have to get this offense some help.

The FA class does not look too impressive at first glance but I am sure there are players who would be able to help obviously. We have a ton of cap coming off the books (Smith, Sherrif, Kerrigan)
 

Caliskinsfan

Burgundy & Gold Forevah
37,145
6,586
533
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,569.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
With at least two of those first 4 picks, I want to see a LT and Guard. We need to build our OLine the same way we built our DLine...through the draft.
Would love to see us building and adding to the Oline thru the draft. Others on here are much better at Xs and Os than myself...but my initial thought is the team’s needs may be different at the end of the year and we’ll have to see where we are. What if Martin and Cristianson make giant leaps this year fro instance? They are already showing improvement and we’ll know a lot more at the end of 16 games.
 

Caliskinsfan

Burgundy & Gold Forevah
37,145
6,586
533
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,569.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The other two picks should be a TE and either a CB or RB. We have to get this offense some help.
Again, so many needs on Offense. We also need a WR that will make other teams really afraid to pair with Terry. Maybe one of our guys already on the roster steps up... Mckissick and Gibson have shown some flashes, maybe we won’t need a RB by the end of the year.

TLDR: hard to know what a roster will actually need til you get to the end of the year and can evaluate all your positions. jmho
 

duke1861

Well-Known Member
1,409
183
63
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Again, so many needs on Offense. We also need a WR that will make other teams really afraid to pair with Terry. Maybe one of our guys already on the roster steps up... Mckissick and Gibson have shown some flashes, maybe we won’t need a RB by the end of the year.

TLDR: hard to know what a roster will actually need til you get to the end of the year and can evaluate all your positions. jmho
I would like to see a more traditional back take Barber's spot.
I hated the Kevlin Harmon injury....I think he would have had a monster year jmho.
I am hoping Charles takes that LT spot but I have read that he might be a more productive Guard. I would welcome him sliding into that hole at RG.
Lots of football left and lots of development that can happen. Bottom line is that we should be a in great spot to pounce of elite FA due to cap room and we have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds.
 

Caliskinsfan

Burgundy & Gold Forevah
37,145
6,586
533
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,569.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Lots of football left and lots of development that can happen. Bottom line is that we should be a in great spot to pounce of elite FA due to cap room and we have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds.
Lots to be excited for if we can just get some development, growth and stability. Skies the limit. Those of us that are older remember championship teams and mentality. May we see it again!
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,902
6,889
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
A winning mentality and actuality on the football field and some damn stability in the FO of this franchise for me.
Ok and does kyle Allen accomplish this ?
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,902
6,889
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Where have you read anywhere on this board anyone say he is anointing Allen as the franchise QB?
Why play him if he isn’t a franchise qb? The only reasons you play Allen is if there is an injury or you anoint him the franchise qb . I don’t believe Allen will give you anymore wins then Haskins or make us “ more competitive “ . No one has to say anything . When you make the move that says it
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,902
6,889
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Thanks Sportster-

Was I being too much of a drama queen, probably.

I did get frustrated with the lack of looking at the big picture and felt most posters drank the Rivera koolaid and ignored the head scratching moves at the time. To be clear:

1. Nobody wants a Biden vs Trump 2020 1st debate repeat.
2. We all want to win again ASAP
3. We want our players to be succesfull.
4. We want Snyder out

That being said, our fanbase is shrinking I feel and we should stick together until a new owner saves us. I hope Haskins is the guy, I hope Ron Rivera changes the culture and gets us winning again, I hope Kyle Smith hits on draft picks and brings in talented free agents.

I still believe and it appears at THIS point that the offseason approach was wrong and is not working. I still do not understand what Smith and RR were thinking.
No politics on the board please
 

tomcat1

Well-Known Member
3,435
1,406
173
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Location
Raleigh, NC
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Why play him if he isn’t a franchise qb? The only reasons you play Allen is if there is an injury or you anoint him the franchise qb . I don’t believe Allen will give you anymore wins then Haskins or make us “ more competitive “ . No one has to say anything . When you make the move that says it

The answer to your question is that several of us here don't think Haskins is a franchise QB either and Allen should be given a chance to get us a few wins if Haskins doesn't show improvement soon. Then, at the end of this season we should go after a quality NFL QB whether it be by draft, trade, FA or whatever. Losing week after week is only going to spread a cancer into the locker room and several of us here think we should try something different. RR might agree with us soon if Danny Boy allows him to.
 

gkekoa

Well-Known Member
18,399
2,213
173
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Location
somewhere over the rainbow
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I do not plan on sticking around but I have been reading the board every month or so since I left. I will offer my thoughts even though its early regarding " a plan". With football only related matters, not the general state of the organization and Snyder:

1. Hiring Ron Rivera: This could potential have been a mistake.
It way too early to say it was a mistake or to even think about firing him or saying anything like that. However, the warning signs are there.
First of all, he was not really succesful at Carolina and I have pointed that out. In 9 seasons, he only had 3 winning seasons. That is not good and tells me he is not that great of a coach. I was on board when the hire was made but after seeing the Carolina fanbase reaction and doing some basic research, this potentially could have been a mistake. Of course, he could win the Super Bowl next year. We do not know. His refusal to call timeouts late in the game are head scratching and make no sense.
I am very hesitant to give a HC full control of personel and believe the GM brings in the players. It seldom works out the other way and caused Holmgreen and Shanahan to lose their jobs.
RR wanted to bringyes men instead of talent. I believe locker room culture is important but I would rather go with talent. The Chiefs are a great example. Kelce is a jerk and Hill's off the field behavior is deplorable but they are the Super Bowl champs. RR brought in "culture" guys but NOT the talent. That is a problem as talent trumps culture. Maybe his plan is to do this in year 2 but he has a possible franchise QB he is trying to save and so far, his plan has backfired. RR even admitted that Haskins is has a time limit.

2. The offseason was a disaster:
I said this several times and was run off the board for suggesting this. Dean said that Haskins would get weapons in FA. That never happened period. He has little to no talent around him at all. I get Haromon and Guice losing his mind but you cannot keep a straight face and say Logan Thomas and JD McKissic are weapons. They are cast offs and back ups...not starters.
Regarding the OLine, I said that we should have let Scherrif walk but Skinsdad and others wanted him. I said he was injury prone and his play was slipping. He could not even make it past 1 game. Its his 3rd trip to IR with 3 different injuries. History repeats itself and the team failed to act on that. We are paying him absurd money to stay injured and could have brought in a replacement. We did not do that.
The rest of the OLine is a mess and RR did NOT address it. Haskins is under current pressure and the running lanes are not there. I repeatedly called for OLine help via FA or with additional draft picks, but it did not happen. RR's plan to protect Haskins with mid-round picks and career journeymen makes no sense at all and he has put the team in a difficult position.

3. The fate of Haskins:
Because of the lack of direction RR has taken, we simply do not know what we have in Haskins. Is he not an NFL QB or does he simply not have the talent around him to succeed? We will have to go into 2021 with that same question because we will not be acquiring additional talent. Do we draft a QB with our 1st pick or draft talent to support Haskins? Nobody knows at this time. What we do know is that RR and Smith botched addressing the offense this year and that was the main goal. We had the worst offense in 2019 and it is not really improved.

Bottom line, there isn't much of a plan now because of the poor decisions the FO made in the offseason. We have numerous holes for 2021 such as LT, RG, WR, TE, FS, CB. We do have cap room and should have the draft picks but does anyone really trust RR and Smith after last year's disaster?

Other points:
-We all saw the Sean Davis disaster coming
-Hopefully RR gets healthy and beats cancer
-Do we trade Kerrigan since we are not going anywhere?
-What is the draft approach for 2021? Franchise QB or LT?
-How much do we use in cap room to fix the glaring lack of talent we have?
-Perhaps RR helps instill a better culture but is a transition coach for us?
-The focus on building the defense first and ignoring the offense mostly has put us in a bad spot.

1- It is far too early to say anything regarding RR. In 2010, Carolina won two games and hired Rivera for 2011. He then improved the team to 6 and 7 wins over the next two seasons. In 2013, they won 12 games and in 2015, they won 15 games making SB. In 2017, they won 11 games. Keep in mind was Wildly inconsistent and they played in the best division in football.

I agree the GM/coach seldom works but you then bring up KC where it does work. Culture definitely works...look at NE.

Simply put, winning is a culture. It takes time.

2- Who do you think we should have got as weapons this offseason?
Who would you replace Scherff with?
What OL would you have got?
Aren’t we without our rookie Ol we drafted?

3- What was the goal? How do you know this? The goal should always be getting better players...and we did. Chase Young is unstoppable. Gibson looks like a good pick. Apparently he finds the holes you say do not exist.
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,902
6,889
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The answer to your question is that several of us here don't think Haskins is a franchise QB either and Allen should be given a chance to get us a few wins if Haskins doesn't show improvement soon. Then, at the end of this season we should go after a quality NFL QB whether it be by draft, trade, FA or whatever. Losing week after week is only going to spread a cancer into the locker room and several of us here think we should try something different. RR might agree with us soon if Danny Boy allows him to.
If you win a “ few more games “ then you take yourself out of getting a top qb prospect without gutting 2 drafts . To me not smart especially if you call 10 games and 3 HC’s the end all be all . Look Haskins could very well be a bust but I can’t see how anyone can make that call at this point . Josh Allen improved and he was worse then Haskins . I don’t buy the losing car cancer stuff either . Half these guys won’t be here next year and the organization knows this is an evaluation year .
Name the Fa qb or trade we could get . Are there any young franchise qbs available ? Tribisky ? Wentz? Winston ? Hill?

I don’t how going for a few cheap wins this year gets us to a super bowl .

if Haskins gets the wins then you know if he has turned the corner . If Allen gets them ( which 8 losses in a row shows me he can’t ) then either he is the franchise guy or we still are looking for the franchise guy

bottom line if the wins come while we are evaluating great ! If we are try to sneak a 7 win team into the playoffs and claim perennial success then no , because going to 5 wins in 2021 isn’t really a change

we hired RR to change the culture and build a consistent winner . That takes time

my philosophy is yr one is evaluate , year is gather the players you need , year 3 is making the run , year 4 is to do it year in and year out

if Danny won’t let him ditch Haskins the RR should resign
 
Last edited:

Sportster 72

Well-Known Member
13,295
3,141
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Thanks Sportster-

Was I being too much of a drama queen, probably.

I did get frustrated with the lack of looking at the big picture and felt most posters drank the Rivera koolaid and ignored the head scratching moves at the time. To be clear:

1. Nobody wants a Biden vs Trump 2020 1st debate repeat.
2. We all want to win again ASAP
3. We want our players to be succesfull.
4. We want Snyder out

That being said, our fanbase is shrinking I feel and we should stick together until a new owner saves us. I hope Haskins is the guy, I hope Ron Rivera changes the culture and gets us winning again, I hope Kyle Smith hits on draft picks and brings in talented free agents.

I still believe and it appears at THIS point that the offseason approach was wrong and is not working. I still do not understand what Smith and RR were thinking.
Good to see you here Duke and I hope you stick around. :suds:
 

Sportster 72

Well-Known Member
13,295
3,141
293
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
My take is similar to many. This is an evaluation year. For everyone ... including coaches. The team has only played three games. We do not need to have a fire drill but we should be evaluating everyone and if Haskin's is still struggling in 3-4 weeks then you might consider putting Allen in. If he performs better it may be that he helps show that some other guys are more productive than we think. It might be that he falls on his face too.

The team needs huge improvements on the OLine. You win on offense with a good QB and a good OLine. It is one step at a time. I am hoping next year the team is heading more to 8-8 and a winning season after that. If not then the current staff is not doing a very good job. Three years is enough time to turn a bad team to a 9-7 or 10-6 team.
 

tomcat1

Well-Known Member
3,435
1,406
173
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Location
Raleigh, NC
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
If you win a “ few more games “ then you take yourself out of getting a top qb prospect without gutting 2 drafts . To me not smart especially if you call 10 games and 3 HC’s the end all be all . Look Haskins could very well be a bust but I can’t see how anyone can make that call at this point . Josh Allen improved and he was worse then Haskins . I don’t buy the losing car cancer stuff either . Half these guys won’t be here next year and the organization knows this is an evaluation year .
Name the Fa qb or trade we could get . Are there any young franchise qbs available ? Tribisky ? Wentz? Winston ? Hill?

I don’t how going for a few cheap wins this year gets us to a super bowl .

if Haskins gets the wins then you know if he has turned the corner . If Allen gets them ( which 8 losses in a row shows me he can’t ) then either he is the franchise guy or we still are looking for the franchise guy

bottom line if the wins come while we are evaluating great ! If we are try to sneak a 7 win team into the playoffs and claim perennial success then no , because going to 5 wins in 2021 isn’t really a change

we hired RR to change the culture and build a consistent winner . That takes time

my philosophy is yr one is evaluate , year is gather the players you need , year 3 is making the run , year 4 is to do it year in and year out

if Danny won’t let him ditch Haskins the RR should resign

I will say this for you, when you dream you dream big because overwhelming odds say that neither you or me will live long enough to see our team in another Super Bowl. Have you ever played any sport at a high level? I was blessed with the ability to do this and I can tell you with no doubts there is no such thing as an evaluation year . . . . . you play to win!
 

Caliskinsfan

Burgundy & Gold Forevah
37,145
6,586
533
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,569.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Ok and does kyle Allen accomplish this ?
Who knows but I sincerely doubt it. Haskins has more possibilities for me personally. That said, if he doesn’t show continued improvement and RR thinks Allen gives the team a better shot to be more competitive and chooses to make a change BEFORE the end of the year, Id trust his decision.
 

skinsdad62

US ARMY retired /mod.
Supporting Member Level 3
57,902
6,889
533
Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Location
ada mi
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I will say this for you, when you dream you dream big because overwhelming odds say that neither you or me will live long enough to see our team in another Super Bowl. Have you ever played any sport at a high level? I was blessed with the ability to do this and I can tell you with no doubts there is no such thing as an evaluation year . . . . . you play to win!
tell it to RR . look if we dont see a superbowl before we die it wont be because we played haskins 16 games this year . i played college basketball at a JC . the players we have on the field right now are playing to win . we re looking at our young guys to see who has a future with us . but the cold hard truth is this TEAM isnt a winning team our even a 500 team . its a 3-4 win team tops . we are about to go 1-5 no matter who the qb is . we arent beating dallas , seatle ,baltimore rams 49ers . we can beat the bengals panthers giants . eagles and lions but they can beat us too
 

Caliskinsfan

Burgundy & Gold Forevah
37,145
6,586
533
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,569.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
its a 3-4 win team tops .
Likely. Opinions vary.

Personally I think our ceiling could reach higher if a few things fall in place. Can’t predict injuries and football remains a week to week league.
 
Top