So glad we decided.....

[skinsdad62]

They may not be elite but they are better than Tannehill - which is where this all started. You need a good QB - they are both good to very good. Ideally you have a great QB but regardless a good QB is most likely to be found in the 1st round.

BAL and SEA didnt win SBs despite their QB play. Their QBs were huge parts of them winning SBs.

niether wilson nor flacco are going to carry a team to a super bowl they had good teams built around them . that is my approach . build the LOS on both sides of the ball , add some play makers then get your qb . all he has to do is is make the plays that are there and distribute the ball to his play
makers

 

[ehb5]

Actually the numbers and the game tape say he has improved every year he has been in the league. His passer rating has gone up, his completions to attempts has gone up. And most fucking importantly, he has managed to stay healthy and PLAY in every game that he was available. The only reason he has more sacks and INTs than Griffin is because he has played in more games.


So I will ask, what more do you want than a guy who has improved every year, managed to stay healthy for every game, doesnt say stupid shit every time he opens his mouth and finally doesnt have a tendency to throw both his coaches and team mates under the bus for every poor performance he has??

You would prefer some one who had one good year and quickly declined I take it??

Oh and by the way.. Tannehill was #11 on the QB list last year.. one step behind Brady. So thats hardly below average.

Hes improved to average. Yay. What more do I want? Somebody I can win a Super Bowl with. Somebody who can carry my team at least for stretches. And Tannehill was #11 on A list. Not all of them.

Again with the RG3 shit lol. He doesnt really apply here nobody is defending him right now.

Im not advocating some injury prone shit talking QB. Ive been clear about what I want and how I want us to get that. You have still not cleared that up though. Do you want to develop Kirk? Should we be trading for Jimmy Garropolo? Whats your plan?

 

[Sharkinva]

Hes improved to average. Yay. What more do I want? Somebody I can win a Super Bowl with. Somebody who can carry my team at least for stretches. And Tannehill was #11 on A list. Not all of them.

Again with the RG3 shit lol. He doesnt really apply here nobody is defending him right now.

Im not advocating some injury prone shit talking QB. Ive been clear about what I want and how I want us to get that. You have still not cleared that up though. Do you want to develop Kirk? Should we be trading for Jimmy Garropolo? Whats your plan?

Actually he was #11 on the official NFL list for QB. So thats a bit better than average. As far as what I want, I want this team to stop chasing after the show boat flashy move at QB. Build a solid team.. much like the Seahawks, Ravens, 49ers and many others have done. And yes even Miami. Good teams dont need a QB who can carry the team all on his own. Because as we have seen way too many times, teams built around a single player are fucked if that player gets injured.

Also what i would love to see but will never happen is for fans of this team to simply admit.. Tannehill is BETTER than the option we went with. While he might not be a top five QB, he is well on his way to being one of the top ten as he is already in the top 11 or so for most meaningful stats. This is despite having no passing weapons to speak of and an offensive line that has been a train wreck. But I get it, admitting that Tannehill is MORE than average just further points out how badly we really fucked up on the whole 2012 draft.

So yes I would love to see us really develop around Cousins and NOT go into panic mode if this team falters over the next few weeks. I dont want to see us in desperation mode of we have got to draft a QB yet again. Because I dont see a true franchise QB in the bunch from 2016. And the longer we chase that Unicorn, the longer we continue to spin our wheels.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

SO I will ask yet again... who is the franchise QB in the 2016 draft that we should be hoping for?? And are you hoping the team this year sucks bad enough for us to have the #1 pick to ensure that we get said named savior?? Because if you cant name me the next Manning/Luck clone in this draft then its pointless to say we HAVE to take a QB next year. And if you are conceding that we must in fact find a franchise QB, then you are obviously hoping we suck enough to get said named savior. Hell we were 4-12 last year and it only got us the 5th pick. So we either reach on a guy most likely not worthy of the 5th pick, or we trade up to get the savior franchise QB you say we must have.

Again I have been arguing the position that you don't need a top QB. Thought I have been pretty clear about that. As I have also said I'm not in favor of reaching in the draft to try to find that guy. But the notion that we shouldn't try, that you can win big with a game manager if the rest of your team is good, is the philosophy I have been arging against.

 

[j_y19]

Again I have been arguing the position that you don't need a top QB. Thought I have been pretty clear about that. As I have also said I'm not in favor of reaching in the draft to try to find that guy. But the notion that we shouldn't try, that you can win big with a game manager if the rest of your team is good, is the philosophy I have been arging against.

I think this debate is over the definitions of franchise QB and game manager. I believe there are only 5-8 true franchise QBs. These are guys that by themselves, carry the team. Without them, their team is markedly worse. Guys like Peyton, Brady, romo, Rodgers, luck. Maybe one or two others. Then there are the tier 2 guys. They can be replaced, the team may suffer, but could still manage success with the right replacement. These are game managers in a sense. There are probably 10-12 of these guys. Wilson, Eli, flacco, stafford, Ryan, etc. you can still win the big one with these guys, but they need talent around them. The rest are up and comers, journeymen, or busts.

Franchise QBs only come around every 3-5 years. They are fools gold. We have wasted numerous picks trying to land one of these guys. So have others. The reality is that it is pure luck if you find your self in a position to draft one. So the smart money is to search for the tier 2 player. They are usually found in rounds 1-4 and often come from less visible programs. They also need development. This is where good scouting comes in.

Much like growth stocks, QB drafting tends to get inflated and caught up in hysteria. This drives their price up beyond what they should really be. For once, let's use that hysteria to our advantage. If we find ourselves in the cellar again, let's resist the urge to chase the fools gold and leverage our position to fill out critical needs that have been killing us for years. Safety, OL, TE, ILB. Let's also look for that value pick at QB. Scout well and look for sleepers in rounds 2-4. But don't expect them to start year 1 or 2.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I think this debate is over the definitions of franchise QB and game manager. I believe there are only 5-8 true franchise QBs. These are guys that by themselves, carry the team. Without them, their team is markedly worse. Guys like Peyton, Brady, romo, Rodgers, luck. Maybe one or two others. Then there are the tier 2 guys. They can be replaced, the team may suffer, but could still manage success with the right replacement. These are game managers in a sense. There are probably 10-12 of these guys. Wilson, Eli, flacco, stafford, Ryan, etc. you can still win the big one with these guys, but they need talent around them. The rest are up and comers, journeymen, or busts.

Franchise QBs only come around every 3-5 years. They are fools gold. We have wasted numerous picks trying to land one of these guys. So have others. The reality is that it is pure luck if you find your self in a position to draft one. So the smart money is to search for the tier 2 player. They are usually found in rounds 1-4 and often come from less visible programs. They also need development. This is where good scouting comes in.

Much like growth stocks, QB drafting tends to get inflated and caught up in hysteria. This drives their price up beyond what they should really be. For once, let's use that hysteria to our advantage. If we find ourselves in the cellar again, let's resist the urge to chase the fools gold and leverage our position to fill out critical needs that have been killing us for years. Safety, OL, TE, ILB. Let's also look for that value pick at QB. Scout well and look for sleepers in rounds 2-4. But don't expect them to start year 1 or 2.

Actually the debate with Dad is just how much you need a good QB. He maintains a good QB is not necessary, a game manager is just fine provided the team around him is great. I disagree strongly.


I'm not claiming you need Tom Brady. But trying to win it all and be constant title contenders with the likes of Nick Foles? Now that's fool's gold. So why not continue the search and try to get one at say the Rivers level? It could change your team's future for 15 years. I agree it's chasing the rainbow and teams over pay with picks like Ponder every year. But it just shows how football people understand the value of a good QB, personnel people understand without one you have no chance.

How many picks have we "wasted" again once you remove the Griffin trade? I count 3 #1's in over 20 years and 2 of them were spent on Jason Campbell (Thanks Joe Gibbs).

 

[skinsdad62]

again eli , flacco and wilson cant carry teams and they have superbowl wins . now a game manager wont get it done either but elite isnt needed either

 

[Sharkinva]

Actually the debate with Dad is just how much you need a good QB. He maintains a good QB is not necessary, a game manager is just fine provided the team around him is great. I disagree strongly.


I'm not claiming you need Tom Brady. But trying to win it all and be constant title contenders with the likes of Nick Foles? Now that's fool's gold. So why not continue the search and try to get one at say the Rivers level? It could change your team's future for 15 years. I agree it's chasing the rainbow and teams over pay with picks like Ponder every year. But it just shows how football people understand the value of a good QB, personnel people understand without one you have no chance.

How many picks have we "wasted" again once you remove the Griffin trade? I count 3 #1's in over 20 years and 2 of them were spent on Jason Campbell (Thanks Joe Gibbs).

By my count... three firsts and a second on Griffin, Two firsts on Campbell, 1 First on Ramsey, and a second on McNabb have been thrown at the QB position.

So eight picks wasted on the QB position in the last 20 years. Eight picks in the top 100 picks I might add. But yes our top priority should once again be QB going into 2016 as we have all but deemed that Kirk wont get it done.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

It's the most important position in team sports guys. There's a reason teams will do just about anything to get a good one.

 

[Sharkinva]

It's the most important position in team sports guys. There's a reason teams will do just about anything to get a good one.

And that exact same reason is why we have been constantly spinning our wheels. MOst of your consistent contenders today had a solid team in place BEFORE they got the franchise QB. Seattle, San Fran, Hell even Dallas has put together a solid roster at least on the offensive side. Or is it just coincidence that Romo had his best year ever when he WASNT trying to carry the team.

Or here is a novel approach... lets not just write off the guy we currently have starting and start looking for the next great hope after one game. Because if we do finish poorly enough to get a top flight QB prospect, it also means we are working with a new coach. And the last thing I want to see is a new head coach with a rookie QB next year... I seen how that movie ends.

 

[JonBlaze]

So because past front offices and head coaches have failed on drafting a QB in the past, fuck the position and try to win without one. Makes perfect sense. GMSM inherited a QB that has a career .200 winning percentage and in the past 2 years is the worst turnover producing QB in the NFL. You think he's scouting college QBs or is gonna pin his hopes/career on Cousins?

 

[JonBlaze]

Now that being said, I see nothing wrong with building the rest of the team. I don't see anyone pining to mortgage the draft for a QB. Everyone just realizes the importance of the position and doesn't want to rule it out because of past failures

 

[Sharkinva]

So because past front offices and head coaches have failed on drafting a QB in the past, fuck the position and try to win without one. Makes perfect sense. GMSM inherited a QB that has a career .200 winning percentage and in the past 2 years is the worst turnover producing QB in the NFL. You think he's scouting college QBs or is gonna pin his hopes/career on Cousins?

Actually he inherited a QB that cost four high draft picks. But lets ignore that for a moment. Im fine with them scouting QB's. Im even fine with them planning to draft one if Cousins fails. But I seriously think MANY fans are hoping Cousins fails because it would royally suck to have to admit Shanahan was RIGHT in the fact that RG3 was a mistake and that Cousins can be a solid QB.

But if we go into another off-season with the concept that we have got to take a QB as our first or second pick, once again I think we will fuck it up. Fix the rest of the team, bring in a stop gap until such time as we are in a position to make a solid QB move.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Did the Colts wait until they had a solid foundation before pulling the trigger on a QB? Of did they go from 2 wins to the playoffs the very next year? The Pats went from 5-11 to champs once they gave the reigns to Tom Brady. The Saints were 3-13 in 2005 and had nothing in the pipeline after Ditka traded us their entire draft and then some. The following year with Drew Brees they go to the NFC Championship Game and later won a Super Bowl. Did they feel the need to wait? Did any of these teams feel the need to wait to get a team together before obtaining and/or playing their star QB? Of course not, you see the chance to grab a good QB who can turn your team around immediately you take that opportunity.

Look I agree, we need a whole lot more than a good QB. And again I'm not for reaching or trading up for the next shiny toy. I'm cool riding Kirk this year and into next, provided he plays well.

I'm just against the notion that we need to wait before finding our next QB. If there is a QB GMSM thinks is the guy he should snatch him up with our first round pick and not even think twice about it.

 

[Sharkinva]

Did the Colts wait until they had a solid foundation before pulling the trigger on a QB? Of did they go from 2 wins to the playoffs the very next year? The Pats went from 5-11 to champs once they gave the reigns to Tom Brady. The Saints were 3-13 in 2005 and had nothing in the pipeline after Ditka traded us their entire draft and then some. The following year with Drew Brees they go to the NFC Championship Game and later won a Super Bowl. Did they feel the need to wait? Did any of these teams feel the need to wait to get a team together before obtaining and/or playing their star QB? Of course not, you see the chance to grab a good QB who can turn your team around immediately you take that opportunity.

Look I agree, we need a whole lot more than a good QB. And again I'm not for reaching or trading up for the next shiny toy. I'm cool riding Kirk this year and into next, provided he plays well.

I'm just against the notion that we need to wait before finding our next QB. If there is a QB GMSM thinks is the guy he should snatch him up with our first round pick and not even think twice about it.

Because we have had so much success with this model. For every Colts team, there is a Redskins team. For every Pats team there is a Jets team. And for every Saints team, there are two or three Browns teams. Desperation to find the guy is the main reason we have NOT found the guy. We continue to make desperate moves to find the franchise QB, and every 2-3 years we are back to the drawing board. Mean while we waste the careers of guys like Samuels, S. Davis, and Cooley just to name a few.

 

[skinsdad62]

Did the Colts wait until they had a solid foundation before pulling the trigger on a QB? Of did they go from 2 wins to the playoffs the very next year? The Pats went from 5-11 to champs once they gave the reigns to Tom Brady. The Saints were 3-13 in 2005 and had nothing in the pipeline after Ditka traded us their entire draft and then some. The following year with Drew Brees they go to the NFC Championship Game and later won a Super Bowl. Did they feel the need to wait? Did any of these teams feel the need to wait to get a team together before obtaining and/or playing their star QB? Of course not, you see the chance to grab a good QB who can turn your team around immediately you take that opportunity.

Look I agree, we need a whole lot more than a good QB. And again I'm not for reaching or trading up for the next shiny toy. I'm cool riding Kirk this year and into next, provided he plays well.

I'm just against the notion that we need to wait before finding our next QB. If there is a QB GMSM thinks is the guy he should snatch him up with our first round pick and not even think twice about it.

what was peytons mannings record year one ? , the pats handed the team to bledsoe not brady . the saints also had a solid base on the team

 

[ehb5]

Actually he was #11 on the official NFL list for QB. So thats a bit better than average. As far as what I want, I want this team to stop chasing after the show boat flashy move at QB. Build a solid team.. much like the Seahawks, Ravens, 49ers and many others have done. And yes even Miami. Good teams dont need a QB who can carry the team all on his own. Because as we have seen way too many times, teams built around a single player are fucked if that player gets injured.

Also what i would love to see but will never happen is for fans of this team to simply admit.. Tannehill is BETTER than the option we went with. While he might not be a top five QB, he is well on his way to being one of the top ten as he is already in the top 11 or so for most meaningful stats. This is despite having no passing weapons to speak of and an offensive line that has been a train wreck. But I get it, admitting that Tannehill is MORE than average just further points out how badly we really fucked up on the whole 2012 draft.

So yes I would love to see us really develop around Cousins and NOT go into panic mode if this team falters over the next few weeks. I dont want to see us in desperation mode of we have got to draft a QB yet again. Because I dont see a true franchise QB in the bunch from 2016. And the longer we chase that Unicorn, the longer we continue to spin our wheels.

LOL the NFL list for what? Just some arbitrary list - good job tanny.

Im not saying you build around one player im saying you draft a QB now because its the most important position. Whether we have been successful drafting them in the past has nothing to do with whether we should draft one now. Process over outcome.

Also I dont think anybody is saying Tannehill isnt better than Kirk or RG3. Were just saying that we dont want Tannehill. We can dislike all 3.

 

[ehb5]

again eli , flacco and wilson cant carry teams and they have superbowl wins . now a game manager wont get it done either but elite isnt needed either

I call bs. They can and have carried teams. They dont always but they can. But regardless you need a good QB. Maybe not elite but why not try for an elite QB?

 

[ehb5]

By my count... three firsts and a second on Griffin, Two firsts on Campbell, 1 First on Ramsey, and a second on McNabb have been thrown at the QB position.

So eight picks wasted on the QB position in the last 20 years. Eight picks in the top 100 picks I might add. But yes our top priority should once again be QB going into 2016 as we have all but deemed that Kirk wont get it done.

Yea because Kirk has shown tons of potential. Unless he breaks out this year - move on and try to get a franchise QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

LOL the NFL list for what? Just some arbitrary list - good job tanny.

Im not saying you build around one player im saying you draft a QB now because its the most important position. Whether we have been successful drafting them in the past has nothing to do with whether we should draft one now. Process over outcome.

Also I dont think anybody is saying Tannehill isnt better than Kirk or RG3. Were just saying that we dont want Tannehill. We can dislike all 3.

Actually the arbitrary list you speak of is base on QB production. You know little things like yards thrown for, passes completed, TD's thrown. Kinda I dont know, QB Job stats. Little things like that. And lets be real, Skins fans would sell virginity of daughters to have a 4000 yard passer at the moment with at least a .500 record.

And Im saying you are desperate to draft another QB because Griffin was a failure and you want some one to pin the hopes on.

You draft a QB right now if he is a good value and some one you can build around. We are likely going to draft a QB because as usual, Danny needs to sell hope and Jerseys to keep the dream alive.