Seattle Mariners 2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[SeattleCoug]

A thing I don’t get with the club and people who defend the idea of not “breaking the bank” is they think every deal has to be the Cano deal. It doesn’t have to be 10 years at $30 million. Negotiate a shorter deal but way more money. I’d like to see the agent who makes his client turn down a 3 or 4 year deal at $50 a year or whatever.

I just completely hate this idea of them not having the money and really, really hate the idea of leaving payroll flexibility for 3 years down the road. With that line of thinking best case scenario is 1 Gilbert, Kirby or Raleigh walk because they performed so well. But worst case scenario is they turn into Kyle Lewis. Most likely scenario is only 1 of them will command top dollar and the other two get much smaller deals.

And when I say within striking distance of the luxury tax I still mean leave plenty so you can add payroll at the deadline but not $100.

speaking of Cano he's officially off the books this year so dont be fooled that there arent some savings from last year

 

[SeattleCoug]

I guess the Phillies aren't as fiscally responsible as the Mariners...

View attachment 315849View attachment 315850

The Castellano deal was a big whiff it seems like but that didnt preclude them from spending more this year.

 

[NWinAZ]

The Castellano deal was a big whiff it seems like but that didnt preclude them from spending more this year.

They just don't have Dipoto's financial sense. Those poor World Series runner ups...

 

[SeattleCoug]

They just don't have Dipoto's financial sense. Those poor World Series runner ups...

Wong is fine player, but this is the type of guy you needed to get two years ago instead of playing Moore there until he drowned himself. Now look at what happened last year when you gave him limited time, he was productive. Now we wanna go down that road again.

I can only laugh

 

[NWinAZ]

Wong is fine player, but this is the type of guy you needed to get two years ago instead of playing Moore there until he drowned himself. Now look at what happened last year when you gave him limited time, he was productive. Now we wanna go down that road again.

I can only laugh

Nailed it. But they wouldn't guarantee his 3rd year so he went to Brewers. But being cheap is responsible...

 

[SeattleCoug]

Nailed it. But they wouldn't guarantee his 3rd year so he went to Brewers. But being cheap is responsible...

And now they are paying for his 3rd year. Again I laugh

 

[NWinAZ]

And now they are paying for his 3rd year. Again I laugh

I am right there with you. Laughing...through the tears.

 

[NWinAZ]

So Dip wants a RH hitting corner OF and preferable also corner IF. Two names mentioned by Mariners podcasters were...hold onto your seats...Brian...Anderson and Will Myers. There was actually another name and I forgot it already.

Divish suggesting:
Ford-Hancock-Brash for Bryan Reynolds

 

[NWinAZ]

Mariner sources like Divish and Morosi and Passan said M's talking early on to guys like Benintendi, Nimmo, the Japanese OF. Yet Dipoto says they are looking for a RH corner OF. None of those are that so I think Dipoto was as truthful on that as he was on the four shortstop interest. Go back to selling used card Jerry.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[seahawksfan234]

Even if he finds his stroke, I am not sure how long that would last because he is well known for tinkering with his swing multiple times a year. Maybe if it is working he wouldn't, but we have never seen that guy.

I know we've discussed this extensively, but I don't know if the swing is the problem. I think it's between the ears.

Tinkering his swing isn't going to fix him swinging at pitches out of the zone.

The only optimism I'd have that he's going to have any improvement comes from the banning of the shift. I could be completely imaging this but I swear he has been heavily shifted against and he has hit a lot of hard balls, but they were just where the defense was aligned.

I know we disagree on the validity of BABIP, but league average is .300 and Kelenic's MLB career BABIP is .201. Perhaps without the shift, he'll see more of those balls land in the grass as opposed to in an fielder's glove.

It's kind of a weak argument but it's really my only hope for him at this point.

 

[seahawksfan234]

What I read was he, like Lamb, had shoulder problem after his MVP season and has never been the same. That is why Conforto scares me. Unless he is cheap, pass.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/11/18/cody-bellinger-shoulder-surgery/

Interesting point. I was unaware of this and if it's lingering problems from the shoulder injury, than hard pass. He signed with the Cubs so I guess it doesn't even matter now. If Conforto had a similar injury, then I guess I'm on the same boat with you regarding him.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Kelenic is not a bust.
He takes..unheard of heat..
Cuz he is not quit ..ready..
Player,...bull..shit ..he is 23..
Maturity
..is a different issue...to the point....that I really don't want to trade him..
At this point...,yes..it's true..,.but I do realize..
A reynolds trade would..
Require it....

147 career games with 18 doubles, 21 HRs and a career .168/.251/.338 triple slash line.

I'm pretty sure that's historically bad and if he wasn't such a heralded prospect he would've been DFA'd by now.

So as of right now, he is a bust. It's on him to change that.

 

[ulmax]

speaking of Cano he's officially off the books this year so dont be fooled that there arent some savings from last year

It's...rising arbitration...that..makes..them..wait..

And???? Maybe they. Really do want to Reynolds.
But are have ng a hard time.. combine ny Pitt...

Anyway....I hope..it well..work out...
Turner ..wanted..phili...so that .is that..
And the guy who would make a diff...so..

I'm....just thinking conforto will..for seattle..
Cuz I can't think..of anyone else..that would..
SLot there..
Other than haniger...

 

[seahawksfan234]

A thing I don’t get with the club and people who defend the idea of not “breaking the bank” is they think every deal has to be the Cano deal. It doesn’t have to be 10 years at $30 million. Negotiate a shorter deal but way more money. I’d like to see the agent who makes his client turn down a 3 or 4 year deal at $50 a year or whatever.

I just completely hate this idea of them not having the money and really, really hate the idea of leaving payroll flexibility for 3 years down the road. With that line of thinking best case scenario is 1 Gilbert, Kirby or Raleigh walk because they performed so well. But worst case scenario is they turn into Kyle Lewis. Most likely scenario is only 1 of them will command top dollar and the other two get much smaller deals.

And when I say within striking distance of the luxury tax I still mean leave plenty so you can add payroll at the deadline but not $100.

100% agree.

To add to this point, the San Diego Padres are currently 6th in projected 2023 payroll and offered Trea Turner like $340m.

If you want to compare the two markets, here are the metro populations of Seattle and San Diego:

Seattle: 4m
San Diego: 3.2m

And this doesn't even include the tertiary viewers that the Mariners audience has in Idaho, Montana, Alaska and Oregon while San Diego has to compete with the television audience of the Dodgers and Angels. If the Padres are able to spend that kind of money, the Mariners very well can as well.

 

[NWinAZ]

I know we've discussed this extensively, but I don't know if the swing is the problem. I think it's between the ears.

Tinkering his swing isn't going to fix him swinging at pitches out of the zone.

The only optimism I'd have that he's going to have any improvement comes from the banning of the shift. I could be completely imaging this but I swear he has been heavily shifted against and he has hit a lot of hard balls, but they were just where the defense was aligned.

I know we disagree on the validity of BABIP, but league average is .300 and Kelenic's MLB career BABIP is .201. Perhaps without the shift, he'll see more of those balls land in the grass as opposed to in an fielder's glove.

It's kind of a weak argument but it's really my only hope for him at this point.

Definitely between the ears, but the problem with between the ears is it leads to problems with the swing with several changes being made each year. He has all kinds of issues and I have a hard time believing he will ever come close to living up to expectations. My biggest hope is they get a stud LF and make him the 4th OF where expectations are really low. You just need a decent glove with the ability to play all 3 positions and some speed to help you late in games as a pinch runner. That isn't what any of us wanted, but that may be his best position. Much like Dylan Moore is very important as a bench player, he isn't a guy you want starting games.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I think everyone thought Geno was a salary dump and if he’s being honest I think Jerry did too.

The Toro trade was the one big time I can remember a big blowup on here with fans. We have argued about the Marco trade and maybe a few minor ones but the Toro deal was a big split and IMO is why Haniger wanted to test FA vs signing the extension he was offered.

I could be misremembering but I'm pretty sure I hated the trade for Toro just because it seemed like the front office was conceding they wouldn't make the playoffs and traded away a good reliever for a mediocre prospect.

Pretty sure we all hated the Marco trade at the time. I actually think given hindsight it turned out a lot better than we expected - honestly I didn't think Marco was anything more than a #5 at best - but even given that, it still sucks because I know a lot of us loved Tyler O'Neill. He had a poor year in 2022 but was the player we all thought he'd be in 2021. Given our current situation I'd like O'Neill back lol.

 

[NWinAZ]

100% agree.

To add to this point, the San Diego Padres are currently 6th in projected 2023 payroll and offered Trea Turner like $340m.

If you want to compare the two markets, here are the metro populations of Seattle and San Diego:

Seattle: 4m
San Diego: 3.2m

And this doesn't even include the tertiary viewers that the Mariners audience has in Idaho, Montana, Alaska and Oregon while San Diego has to compete with the television audience of the Dodgers and Angels. If the Padres are able to spend that kind of money, the Mariners very well can as well.

Thank you. I got up in the a.m. this morning and googled markets for MLB teams. Here is what I found:

Baseball’s Most Valuable Teams 2022: Yankees Hit $6 Billion As New CBA Creates New Revenue Streams

MLB is introducing ads on uniforms and expanding its postseason, helping drive up the average value of its teams to a record $2.07 billion.

www.forbes.com

 

[ulmax]

So because of trammel and kelenic..
They want a right handed guy..so ok.
And even if they ..
Reynolds trade..it's the same

 

[NWinAZ]

Thank you. I got up in the a.m. this morning and googled markets for MLB teams. Here is what I found:

Baseball’s Most Valuable Teams 2022: Yankees Hit $6 Billion As New CBA Creates New Revenue Streams

MLB is introducing ads on uniforms and expanding its postseason, helping drive up the average value of its teams to a record $2.07 billion.

www.forbes.com

From what I read, M's were tied for 4th in Operating Income at $71M. So cry me a river Jerry.