Seattle Mariners 2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[seahawksfan234]

Wong for a year (or even more) wasn't my top 3 choice for 2B. Getting rid of Winker was something I said had to happen in order to take on payroll. So this is a push in that manner, but a negative for what we won't get. Any of the top 4 SS's (never was happening) or Torres or McNeil. All good tough. I said last week the writing was on the wall that money wouldn't be spent unless money went out. This whole 2026 money management crap is just that...crap. But M's management wins again.

I'm kind of "meh" on the trade.

Toro is a bust, and per Ryan Divish it sounds as if Winker had to go as he was a problem in the clubhouse. If it's true that the injuries are what sapped his ability at the plate, then it would've been better to give him another year but it seemed like a foregone conclusion he wouldn't be on the team in 2023.

I guess Wong represents an upgrade over Frazier if he doesn't regress like Frazier did. That's a big if.

Also, am I wrong on this or wasn't Wong a guy the Mariners wanted to sign but ownership wouldn't sign off on it? Whatever I guess, doesn't matter now.

Jokes aside I could totally see Wong regressing and Winker thriving with the Brewers. Winker's drop off in production made absolutely no sense, and the fact that he was apparently hurt I guess maybe explains it.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Don't know if it's just a negotiation tactic, but the Pirates released a statement indicating he'll be playing for them in 2023.

I've always wanted us to trade for him, more so now because I'm incredibly pessimistic that any additions to the offense will be made via free agency.

 

[seahawksfan234]

As it stands right now this is what our lineup would look like:

1B: Ty France
2B: Kolten Wong
SS: J.P. Crawford
3B: Eugenio Saurez
RF: Teoscar Hernandez
CF: Julio Rodriguez
LF: ???
C: Cal Raleigh
DH: ???

Assuming Wong and Hernandez only regress slightly, I'm not sure how much better this lineup is from last year.

If the Mariners are going to go the cheap route, trade for Reynolds and sign a vet to play DH. If we go into 2023 with Kelenic in left and DH by committee, it would be hard for me to argue this lineup has improved much.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I do wonder what the Yankees were asking for Torres because he is a better player at the moment. Can hit both lefties and righties and is a better defensive player. “Experts” or local podcasters are saying 2022 was an anomaly for Wong, well then Winker is twice the player of you play that game.

I am happy they got Wong but now they need a COF unless they are really going into the season with Teoscar ar DH and a combo of Kelenic, Trammell, Marlowe and DeLoach as the other COF. Still don’t get Jerry thinking starting pitching is a need. IMO both COF’s, 2B, DH and a lefty relief pitcher were the holes and he’s gotten 2 thus far.

If they go with Teoscar at DH and a combo of shit at RF and LF, it's going to be a long season.

Since I get the impression the Mariners are going to be cheap, they at least need to add a guy like Cody Bellinger, Michael Conforto, Michael Brantley or J.D. Martinez.

 

[NWinAZ]

Also, am I wrong on this or wasn't Wong a guy the Mariners wanted to sign but ownership wouldn't sign off on it? Whatever I guess, doesn't matter now.

Management/ownership wouldn't guarantee the 3rd year while Brewers made it a team option. That was the difference. So for people who get mad at fans that complain M's won't spend, this is exactly what happened here. Now they have to use trade capitol (not much I agree) to obtain a guy for one year instead of three. So Mariners and so to the point...cheap, cheap.

 

[NWinAZ]

Don't know if it's just a negotiation tactic, but the Pirates released a statement indicating he'll be playing for them in 2023.

I've always wanted us to trade for him, more so now because I'm incredibly pessimistic that any additions to the offense will be made via free agency.

I didn't read that from Pirates. What I saw was they were in no hurry to trade him now or later. But who wants an unhappy guy on their team (see Winker). They will trade him. Probably sooner than later so they can remove the distraction. It was said they offered him a deal and he moved on.

 

[NWinAZ]

Since I get the impression the Mariners are going to be cheap, they at least need to add a guy like Cody Bellinger, Michael Conforto, Michael Brantley or J.D. Martinez.

Bellinger and Conforto are reportedly going to be expensive but short term.

 

[wazzu31]

I personally disagree with the decision not to spend, but I can see why it wouldn't be "dumb."

Dipoto was quoted as saying the following:

"Speaking on Seattle Sports 710 AM this week, Dipoto pointed out that the Mariners have more obligations in 2024 and beyond than all but two teams, by virtue of their core of young talent that will hit arbitration, the substantial contract extensions given Julio Rodriguez, Luis Castillo and Crawford, and the Robbie Ray contract."

From their perspective, I think they believe if they added significant payroll obligations this offseason, it would hamstring them from extending guys currently on the roster or adding in the future.

I disagree with the decision, but realistically speaking there is nothing that indicates that this franchise is willing to spend like the Yankees. They are also probably looking at it from a business perspective. In the end, the owners care most about making money and that means minimizing expenses while maximizing revenue.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for it whatsoever and think that payroll should at least be a minimum of ~$180m-$200m based on what they've spent in the past, but unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen. Frankly I don't expect the Mariners to be major players in free agency based on what has occurred so far.

And my rebuttal is still the same, they need to quit pretending they are a small market team. They should be hovering within striking distance of the luxury tax.

 

[NWinAZ]

Don't know if it's just a negotiation tactic, but the Pirates released a statement indicating he'll be playing for them in 2023.

I've always wanted us to trade for him, more so now because I'm incredibly pessimistic that any additions to the offense will be made via free agency.

I went back and read the comments from the Pirates. You are right on what they said, but I see that more as letting other teams know they don't have to trade him but everyone knows it is almost inevitable at this point. Nice call on this though. I missed it.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

If they go with Teoscar at DH and a combo of shit at RF and LF, it's going to be a long season.

Since I get the impression the Mariners are going to be cheap, they at least need to add a guy like Cody Bellinger, Michael Conforto, Michael Brantley or J.D. Martinez.

I don’t mind the Mariners taking a flyer either the 3 lefties but Bellinger and Conforto are expensive reclamation projects. I think the upside is high, but their floor IMO the Mariners already have. And it seems the FO is dead set on Moore and Haggerty platooning so it kind of is a waste spending that much money on those 2. And I know it isn’t popular but they do have the Kelenic problem, he either needs to be traded now or given a sink of swim 3 months starting next year.

 

[wazzu31]

Do the Mariners even have a package that could get him? I know that the FO keeps saying over and over that they prefer trades but they have depleted their farm system with most of their real prospects are still years away. If it comes down to them wanting a Gilbert/Kirby/Brash it has to be Gilbert. Even if the bullpen takes a step back a Brash/Munoz is a killer combo. The M’s are reportedly in on that Japanese pitcher plus as of the moment have Flexen and Marco.

 

[NWinAZ]

Do the Mariners even have a package that could get him? I know that the FO keeps saying over and over that they prefer trades but they have depleted their farm system with most of their real prospects are still years away. If it comes down to them wanting a Gilbert/Kirby/Brash it has to be Gilbert. Even if the bullpen takes a step back a Brash/Munoz is a killer combo. The M’s are reportedly in on that Japanese pitcher plus as of the moment have Flexen and Marco.

I think they could make a real play for him. Pick #30 plus the money that goes with it would be required I am guessing. Then it would take some luck on convincing them that Kelenic isn't totally washed up. Add Brash and Trammell and one of the 3 top SP prospects and it might get it done. If not, just go by a freaking LF!!!! Sorry, I don't get it.

 

[wazzu31]

I'm kind of "meh" on the trade.

Toro is a bust, and per Ryan Divish it sounds as if Winker had to go as he was a problem in the clubhouse. If it's true that the injuries are what sapped his ability at the plate, then it would've been better to give him another year but it seemed like a foregone conclusion he wouldn't be on the team in 2023.

I guess Wong represents an upgrade over Frazier if he doesn't regress like Frazier did. That's a big if.

Also, am I wrong on this or wasn't Wong a guy the Mariners wanted to sign but ownership wouldn't sign off on it? Whatever I guess, doesn't matter now.

Jokes aside I could totally see Wong regressing and Winker thriving with the Brewers. Winker's drop off in production made absolutely no sense, and the fact that he was apparently hurt I guess maybe explains it.

@NWinAZ has already written you back on it. Ownership didn’t want that extra year, so instead offering an extra $5 million a season or make up the different a 4th would’ve cost they just said no. They can still have a top tier payroll that doesn’t cripple the future, don’t sign Cano type deals, sign 3 years with a club or player option but massively overpay for those seasons. If a player wants 8/250 give them 3/90 with a player option. It’s not super long term.

It’s like they honestly troll the fans when we have begged for a FA hitter because they spend their money on pitchers or dudes who will DFA’d soon.

 

[wazzu31]

I personally disagree with the decision not to spend, but I can see why it wouldn't be "dumb."

Dipoto was quoted as saying the following:

"Speaking on Seattle Sports 710 AM this week, Dipoto pointed out that the Mariners have more obligations in 2024 and beyond than all but two teams, by virtue of their core of young talent that will hit arbitration, the substantial contract extensions given Julio Rodriguez, Luis Castillo and Crawford, and the Robbie Ray contract."

From their perspective, I think they believe if they added significant payroll obligations this offseason, it would hamstring them from extending guys currently on the roster or adding in the future.

I disagree with the decision, but realistically speaking there is nothing that indicates that this franchise is willing to spend like the Yankees. They are also probably looking at it from a business perspective. In the end, the owners care most about making money and that means minimizing expenses while maximizing revenue.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for it whatsoever and think that payroll should at least be a minimum of ~$180m-$200m based on what they've spent in the past, but unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen. Frankly I don't expect the Mariners to be major players in free agency based on what has occurred so far.

And one more thing is how bad their 2026 “projections” with payroll had Lewis, Gilbert and Kelenic all took those deals. I don’t think Raleigh was offered it but

 

[NWinAZ]

And one more thing is how bad their 2026 “projections” with payroll had Lewis, Gilbert and Kelenic all took those deals. I don’t think Raleigh was offered it but

So it basically comes down to this, we can only afford three above average contracts per year. As long as they feel they can fill the other spots with rookies or veteran minimum or near minimum deals, they are happy. This whole "Ownership is willing to get a top player if the he is a difference maker" has been crap for several years now. I am just repeating myself...I guess I get that fro DIPoto.

 

[ulmax]

So it basically comes down to this, we can only afford three above average contracts per year. As long as they feel they can fill the other spots with rookies or veteran minimum or near minimum deals, they are happy. This whole "Ownership is willing to get a top player if the he is a difference maker" has been crap for several years now. I am just repeating myself...I guess I get that fro DIPoto.

If you say .....the top 4 guys...would have fit the mariners...
I disagree.....after assembling a list...

And checking it maney times......a guy over 30; just does not fit..for me going forward..
And this is for 6 or 7 years..

A guy like..wong even at 32 does fit .cuz..He has 1 year....and even..an other year..if he has a good year..

He is a good defender..and a good right hand hitter..anyway.

Good enough.for know .
Till ,the mariners can grow.some of there own..

 

[ulmax]

In baseball seattle..can be a world.,.apart..

From every other team.....it just is....

 

[ulmax]

Who ever a Left handed power bat is.
.they .
Need that guy..

and a pitcher .that they..
Want to be commit to as be#5..
Gonzales...ok...flexen..ok..

Or a new guy .

 

[ulmax]

The mariners .actually have that luxury..they do not normally have..a choice..
Of pitchers..going forward...they do not have..
To trade...

They can..if they want..which gives..them..
A lot..of time....

and even to..the deadline..or..even more.

..know
If someone..shows..a trade..they..can not say.

No to...well...ok then..