Seahawks could/should be Super Bowl contenders for real when?

[boogiewithstu2007]

I actually think this year the 49ers could be the team to beat in the NFC. They went 13-4 in the regular season after starting with Trey Lance as their QB, then back to Jimmy G, then to Brock Purdy. Not to mention the fact that they'll get a full season with Christian McCaffrey.

You can point to Brock Purdy being a mere game manager, but when you have the weapons the 49ers have on offense all you need to do is not make mistakes and get your guys the ball.

That’s a fair assessment, 49rs are tough …

 

[Screamin12th]

When your Defense is #2 in Yards per game and #1 in points against per game yeah you are going to be pretty good! The 49ers have one of if not THE BEST Defense in the NFL. The 49ers don't need to be great on offense but with the weapons they DO have on offense and the fact their defense is lights out they will be tough.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Suh and Donald were pass rush monsters though. Both were 7+ sacks higher than Carter for MULTIPLE seasons (well Donald at least every season basically - anyway). Their threat on the DL was far and away a bigger concern than Carter - especially in a passing league. Carter had 3 sacks each of his last two seasons. That's what we want with #5 overall? Meh.. I'd rather trade down, accumulate, and hedge our bets on a VERY deep DL/EDGE class instead.

And then given his work ethic and off field concerns... I dunno man, I have zero faith in that guy. Happy to eat crow (as I always say) if wrong. This is a DEEP DL draft class and it was originally supposed to be a DEEP QB draft class. The QB has tapered off a bit (although still a lot of hype) but outside of Anderson that is worth of staying at #5 overall, I have little faith Carter fits the bill.

"Oh well he gained weight because he was nervous and upset about his teammates/coach" WELL WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU DOING OUT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU FUCKIN' MORON!?" Seriously? It's got Malik McDowell all over it.

That's all fair. I'm just basing my thoughts on Carter based on what I've seen from his tape. I really do think he's the best player in the draft, but I do acknowledge your concerns about him. I will say the fact that he was out of shape is concerning as I believe his snap count was pretty limited at Georgia due to all of the talent on that roster.

I will say that landing another first round pick in 2024 would be great incentive to trade down, especially when Jalen Carter could fall due to the concerns you've mentioned.

I don't believe Will Anderson Jr. will be on the board when we select, but even if he does I do kind of wonder how much of an emphasis the edge position will be for the Seahawks. If you're looking at our current depth chart - in a base 3-4 - you'll see why I wonder if they'll look to take an edge at #5.

OLB/Edge: Nwosu
OLB/Edge: Darrell Taylor/Boye Mafe
ILB: Bobby Wagner
ILB: Jordyn Brooks/Devin Bush
DE: Dre'Mont Jones
NT: ???
DE: Jarran Reed

Nwosu had a good year with 9.5 sacks, Darrell Taylor really figured it out with 9.5 sacks on the season with 8.5 of them coming in the final 9 games and Mafe being an investment as a second round pick last year.

I will end by saying that if Jalen Carter stays in shape and is committed, I think he'd be an All-Pro pretty quickly. If he doesn't... Well then that would be one of the biggest wastes of talent I can recall in years.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

That's all fair. I'm just basing my thoughts on Carter based on what I've seen from his tape. I really do think he's the best player in the draft, but I do acknowledge your concerns about him. I will say the fact that he was out of shape is concerning as I believe his snap count was pretty limited at Georgia due to all of the talent on that roster.

I will say that landing another first round pick in 2024 would be great incentive to trade down, especially when Jalen Carter could fall due to the concerns you've mentioned.

I don't believe Will Anderson Jr. will be on the board when we select, but even if he does I do kind of wonder how much of an emphasis the edge position will be for the Seahawks. If you're looking at our current depth chart - in a base 3-4 - you'll see why I wonder if they'll look to take an edge at #5.

OLB/Edge: Nwosu
OLB/Edge: Darrell Taylor/Boye Mafe
ILB: Bobby Wagner
ILB: Jordyn Brooks/Devin Bush
DE: Dre'Mont Jones
NT: ???
DE: Jarran Reed

Nwosu had a good year with 9.5 sacks, Darrell Taylor really figured it out with 9.5 sacks on the season with 8.5 of them coming in the final 9 games and Mafe being an investment as a second round pick last year.

I will end by saying that if Jalen Carter stays in shape and is committed, I think he'd be an All-Pro pretty quickly. If he doesn't... Well then that would be one of the biggest wastes of talent I can recall in years.

I mean you're not wrong.... I have posted (maybe it was this thread, hell I'm not looking it up lol) that if Anderson is there at 5... I'd STILL consider trading down. Class is decently deep at EDGE, not that deep in DT.

Again I can't give it a negative grade if Seattle selects Carter or Anderson (probably an A- or A+ in that order). If we select Richardson though I'm auto F'ing.

 

[seahawksfan234]

So where did you find these stats and how do they compare to other DL? Isn't 5 hurries and 5 pressures the same thing?

As one of the resident stat nerds on this board, I have to say that's a really good question.

If I had to guess, a hurry would be something that disrupts the timing on the pass and a pressure is something that results in the QB having to get rid of the ball or dump it off.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

@HaroldSeattle @seahawksfan234

Believe hurry is a bit more subjective (the QB throws the ball earlier than he should) - which is a bit subjective, no idea how that is recorded/defined.

Pressure is an all encompassing stat that includes hurries, sacks, knockdowns.

You can kind of see it here with TJ Watt. The pressure is a summation of the Hrry+QBKD+Sk although it seems to be 1-2 higher in most instances... dunno where that comes from lol. Anyway if you sum them up you get pretty close to how PFR records it.

�

Games	Pass Coverage	Pass Rush	Tackles
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Tgt	Cmp	Cmp%	Yds	Yds/Cmp	Yds/Tgt	TD	Rat	DADOT	Air	YAC	Bltz	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss	Comb	MTkl	MTkl%
2018*	24	PIT	LOLB	90	16	16	0	27	22	81.5%	198	9.0	7.3	1	109.6	5.0	70	128	46	18	7	13.0	38	68	14	17.1%
2019*+	25	PIT	LOLB	90	16	16	2	5	2	40.0%	13	6.5	2.6	0	8.3	3.6	0	13	80	23	19	14.5	59	55	8	12.7%
2020*+	26	PIT	LOLB	90	15	15	1	6	3	50.0%	15	5.0	2.5	1	56.2	7.8	15	0	91	19	26	15.0	61	53	6	10.2%
2021*+	27	PIT	LOLB	90	15	15	0	4	4	100.0%	41	10.3	10.3	0	109.4	3.0	12	29	45	15	13	22.5	52	64	13	16.9%
2022*	28	PIT	LB	90	10	10	2	3	3	100.0%	24	8.0	8.0	0	60.4	2.3	7	17	36	2	4	5.5	13	39

 

[seahawksfan234]

I mean you're not wrong.... I have posted (maybe it was this thread, hell I'm not looking it up lol) that if Anderson is there at 5... I'd STILL consider trading down. Class is decently deep at EDGE, not that deep in DT.

Again I can't give it a negative grade if Seattle selects Carter or Anderson (probably a B+ or A+ in that order). If we select Richardson though I'm auto F'ing.

I think I agree with you on trading down. If they traded down even 5 spots I think it would net them a 2024 first rounder and there would still be a lot of great talent on the board.

I've actually gone from the "shoot me in the head if we draft Anthony Richardson at 5," to not being too opposed to the idea. It wouldn't be my first choice, or second, or third, but I will say my opinion of him has changed a lot. He's incredibly raw (didn't start at QB in HS due to an injury and only has 16 career college starts), and only 20 years old. But among the QBs expected to be selected in the first round, he has by far the lowest floor and the highest ceiling.

I think that Anthony Richardson will either end up playing WR in 3 years or will end up being a much better version of Cam Newton. The arm talent is 100% there and the athleticism is obvious. Anyone who selects him will essentially be getting a very expensive lottery ticket, but I can see why there is so much interest.

If the Seahawks were to take Richardson, I'd have to give them the benefit of the doubt. JS and PC were interested very interested in Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, took Russell Wilson in the third round and somehow knew that Geno Smith was capable of being a starting QB.

Although I'll end by saying I wouldn't really argue with anyone who would absolutely hate the selection.

 

[seahawksfan234]

@HaroldSeattle @seahawksfan234

Believe hurry is a bit more subjective (the QB throws the ball earlier than he should) - which is a bit subjective, no idea how that is recorded/defined.

Pressure is an all encompassing stat that includes hurries, sacks, knockdowns.

You can kind of see it here with TJ Watt. The pressure is a summation of the Hrry+QBKD+Sk although it seems to be 1-2 higher in most instances... dunno where that comes from lol. Anyway if you sum them up you get pretty close to how PFR records it.

�

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Tgt	Cmp	Cmp%	Yds	Yds/Cmp	Yds/Tgt	TD	Rat	DADOT	Air	YAC	Bltz	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss	Comb	MTkl	MTkl%
Games	Pass Coverage	Pass Rush	Tackles
2018*	24	PIT	LOLB	90	16	16	0	27	22	81.5%	198	9.0	7.3	1	109.6	5.0	70	128	46	18	7	13.0	38	68	14	17.1%
2019*+	25	PIT	LOLB	90	16	16	2	5	2	40.0%	13	6.5	2.6	0	8.3	3.6	0	13	80	23	19	14.5	59	55	8	12.7%
2020*+	26	PIT	LOLB	90	15	15	1	6	3	50.0%	15	5.0	2.5	1	56.2	7.8	15	0	91	19	26	15.0	61	53	6	10.2%
2021*+	27	PIT	LOLB	90	15	15	0	4	4	100.0%	41	10.3	10.3	0	109.4	3.0	12	29	45	15	13	22.5	52	64	13	16.9%
2022*	28	PIT	LB	90	10	10	2	3	3	100.0%	24	8.0	8.0	0	60.4	2.3	7	17	36	2	4	5.5	13	39

Thank you for the clarification bud!

I love that these days we have access to all this information.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I think I agree with you on trading down. If they traded down even 5 spots I think it would net them a 2024 first rounder and there would still be a lot of great talent on the board.

I've actually gone from the "shoot me in the head if we draft Anthony Richardson at 5," to not being too opposed to the idea. It wouldn't be my first choice, or second, or third, but I will say my opinion of him has changed a lot. He's incredibly raw (didn't start at QB in HS due to an injury and only has 16 career college starts), and only 20 years old. But among the QBs expected to be selected in the first round, he has by far the lowest floor and the highest ceiling.

I think that Anthony Richardson will either end up playing WR in 3 years or will end up being a much better version of Cam Newton. The arm talent is 100% there and the athleticism is obvious. Anyone who selects him will essentially be getting a very expensive lottery ticket, but I can see why there is so much interest.

If the Seahawks were to take Richardson, I'd have to give them the benefit of the doubt. JS and PC were interested very interested in Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, took Russell Wilson in the third round and somehow knew that Geno Smith was capable of being a starting QB.

Although I'll end by saying I wouldn't really argue with anyone who would absolutely hate the selection.

Eh I mean, John Schneider I trust. Wanted Rodgers, wanted Allen, wanted Mahomes, wanted Wilson (even when Pete wasn't a fan)... I'm still grading it an F >.< cause I'm stubborn and don't think he'll work in the NFL.. maybe I'll move it to a D... hmph.

 

[Anointed One]

As one of the resident stat nerds on this board, I have to say that's a really good question.

If I had to guess, a hurry would be something that disrupts the timing on the pass and a pressure is something that results in the QB having to get rid of the ball or dump it off.

@HaroldSeattle ... Sorry about that... I hadn't realized you had asked me this question... Too my understanding, they're defined as the following...

A hurry is defined as a situation when the QB is forced to throw the ball earlier than intended or is chased around/out of the pocket as the result of defensive pressure

Pressure is defined as a hurry while in the pocket, a knockdown or a sack,

 

[Screamin12th]

That's all fair. I'm just basing my thoughts on Carter based on what I've seen from his tape. I really do think he's the best player in the draft, but I do acknowledge your concerns about him. I will say the fact that he was out of shape is concerning as I believe his snap count was pretty limited at Georgia due to all of the talent on that roster.

I will say that landing another first round pick in 2024 would be great incentive to trade down, especially when Jalen Carter could fall due to the concerns you've mentioned.

I don't believe Will Anderson Jr. will be on the board when we select, but even if he does I do kind of wonder how much of an emphasis the edge position will be for the Seahawks. If you're looking at our current depth chart - in a base 3-4 - you'll see why I wonder if they'll look to take an edge at #5.

OLB/Edge: Nwosu
OLB/Edge: Darrell Taylor/Boye Mafe
ILB: Bobby Wagner
ILB: Jordyn Brooks/Devin Bush
DE: Dre'Mont Jones
NT: ???
DE: Jarran Reed

Nwosu had a good year with 9.5 sacks, Darrell Taylor really figured it out with 9.5 sacks on the season with 8.5 of them coming in the final 9 games and Mafe being an investment as a second round pick last year.

I will end by saying that if Jalen Carter stays in shape and is committed, I think he'd be an All-Pro pretty quickly. If he doesn't... Well then that would be one of the biggest wastes of talent I can recall in years.

Im starting to get Curry vibes from Carter.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's all fair. I'm just basing my thoughts on Carter based on what I've seen from his tape. I really do think he's the best player in the draft, but I do acknowledge your concerns about him. I will say the fact that he was out of shape is concerning as I believe his snap count was pretty limited at Georgia due to all of the talent on that roster.

I will say that landing another first round pick in 2024 would be great incentive to trade down, especially when Jalen Carter could fall due to the concerns you've mentioned.

I don't believe Will Anderson Jr. will be on the board when we select, but even if he does I do kind of wonder how much of an emphasis the edge position will be for the Seahawks. If you're looking at our current depth chart - in a base 3-4 - you'll see why I wonder if they'll look to take an edge at #5.

OLB/Edge: Nwosu
OLB/Edge: Darrell Taylor/Boye Mafe
ILB: Bobby Wagner
ILB: Jordyn Brooks/Devin Bush
DE: Dre'Mont Jones
NT: ???
DE: Jarran Reed

Nwosu had a good year with 9.5 sacks, Darrell Taylor really figured it out with 9.5 sacks on the season with 8.5 of them coming in the final 9 games and Mafe being an investment as a second round pick last year.

I will end by saying that if Jalen Carter stays in shape and is committed, I think he'd be an All-Pro pretty quickly. If he doesn't... Well then that would be one of the biggest wastes of talent I can recall in years.

I've been saying for a while that Anderson doesn't really fit in our system with our current players.

Now if PC/JS think he is a truly generational player then I'm fine with going for him. But that seems unlikely.

Carter is the guy, IF they feel he's mature enough to take early.

If not then I think Murphy is probably the better choice!

 

[flyerhawk]

Im starting to get Curry vibes from Carter.

Huh? Absolutely NO ONE thinks that Carter will flop because of his inability to play at the NFL level. In fact, he is generally regarded as one of the most NFL ready players in this draft. Not sure how you are seeing this.

The McDowell comps make more sense.

 

[Screamin12th]

Huh? Absolutely NO ONE thinks that Carter will flop because of his inability to play at the NFL level. In fact, he is generally regarded as one of the most NFL ready players in this draft. Not sure how you are seeing this.

The McDowell comps make more sense.

Because this is what people said about Curry " Absolutely no doubts" "Surefire cant miss prospect" " Once a generation type player".....

 

[MrS]

Because this is what people said about Curry " Absolutely no doubts" "Surefire cant miss prospect" " Once a generation type player".....

they did, that one hurt. that whole entire draft was garbage though, once in a generation level garbage for an entire draft.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

they did, that one hurt. that whole entire draft was garbage though, once in a generation level garbage for an entire draft.

Yah the 2009 draft class was horrific lol. And the guys that were okay, couldn't stay healthy.

Unger was a great center (the only redeeming part) but couldn't really stay healthy even after the trade to the Saints (which was still baffling to me).

But yah, Curry was the ONE person in that ENTIRE draft that was the surefire can't miss guy. I was so pumped when we took him at #4... thought he would be the next best thing... how wrong I was. When Curry was torpedoing towards I think Robinson in the 49ers game ready to tackle for a loss for 5 yards and just put a major hit on, and Robinson (might've been Gore but pretty sure it was Robinson) just casually jumped over him, I was like, "Ooooooh boy... we might've just got had."

 

[seahawksfan234]

Eh I mean, John Schneider I trust. Wanted Rodgers, wanted Allen, wanted Mahomes, wanted Wilson (even when Pete wasn't a fan)... I'm still grading it an F >.< cause I'm stubborn and don't think he'll work in the NFL.. maybe I'll move it to a D... hmph.

Tbh I don't know what kind of grade I'd give selecting Anthony Richardson. As I said, you could either be getting a generational talent or a future WR. I will say that his career will likely be tanked if he's expected to be a starter year one. Too many problems that need to be resolved and if he's out there year one, he's going to likely develop bad tendencies that won't be fixable and likely play himself out of the league as teams have minimal patience with their QBs.

I will say if we actually do select him, I'll probably be really pissed despite the potential. I think selecting a project QB at #5 is a huge waste when you can land a guy who could be an impact starter on defense on day one. Obviously it could pay massive dividends in the future, but it could also be a huge waste of opportunity if he doesn't pan out.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Im starting to get Curry vibes from Carter.

I don't think Aaron Curry ever had issues with conditioning or law enforcement prior to the draft.

Although I will say that I was also one of the many who were duped by Aaron Curry and thought he had a very low floor. Like Carter he had great tape. I actually find it kind of ironic that Aaron Curry is currently a linebackers coach considering that many of his problems in the NFL were the result of poor fundamentals. I actually would consider Aaron Curry to be one of the biggest busts of this century considering we all thought that the very worst case scenario with him he'd be an average starter.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I've been saying for a while that Anderson doesn't really fit in our system with our current players.

Now if PC/JS think he is a truly generational player then I'm fine with going for him. But that seems unlikely.

Carter is the guy, IF they feel he's mature enough to take early.

If not then I think Murphy is probably the better choice!

It'll be really interesting to see how things play out.

I was giving it some thought and I can actually see why the Seahawks would consider taking an edge rusher despite what I said previously. Nwosu is a free agent after this season and will likely command a big contract, and I believe Darrell Taylor will be a free agent if we don't exercise his fifth year option. As much as I don't want to see Nwosu walk, it would be a lot easier if we had a Tyree Wilson or Will Anderson Jr. to replace him.

Although I am the ultimate hype man for Jalen Carter, if we selected him I would just hope they wouldn't play him at NT. Most of his experience/success has come from lining up in the B-gap while a 3-4 NT plays primarily from the A-gap. He's best suited as a 3-4 DE or a 4-3 DT. I don't see him as a NT guy, and I doubt they signed Reed to have him sit on the bench.

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't think Aaron Curry ever had issues with conditioning or law enforcement prior to the draft.

Although I will say that I was also one of the many who were duped by Aaron Curry and thought he had a very low floor. Like Carter he had great tape. I actually find it kind of ironic that Aaron Curry is currently a linebackers coach considering that many of his problems in the NFL were the result of poor fundamentals. I actually would consider Aaron Curry to be one of the biggest busts of this century considering we all thought that the very worst case scenario with him he'd be an average starter.

Curry's problems were a complete lack of instincts on the field. He would always be out of position which negated his athleticism.

Carter is a lot more about sheer power and speed and linemen don't need to react nearly as much.