Russell Wilson and Kaepernick

[whysies]

LOL!

To be fair, when I typed that I forgot about Florida. I'd like to think it doesn't exist. Wishful thinking I guess. Also, if this thread is at all representative, Washington state is rapidly rising on that list

Seriously though broham, it doesn't make a lot of sense to make fun of a flyover state if you choose to live in a shittier fly over state.

Back on topic: are there any objective Seahawks fans out there? Maybe they only stick to their own board? Perhaps it's just the nature of the ones who come and post here to be subjective, myopic, delusional homers?

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Last year? Not sure I agree with that. Wilson was bad for seven of the eight quarters he played in the playoffs. He was lucky they made it past the Redskins. This year I agree Wilson has been somewhat better.

As for the "between the ears" thing, Kap is objectively more intelligent than Wilson. That doesn't mean he has more football smarts, but people talking Wilson up as if he is brilliant off the field are full of it. The guy has above average intelligence, but not by much. Kap is markedly smarter.

lol he is... I think that's definitely a matter of opinion...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Both have struggled when it comes to the pocket but the big difference is Wilson has been way better with his legs.

Neither QB has been all that impressive when it comes to standing in the pocket and making throws from there. Both QBs look uncomfortable there at the moment.

For Wilson I believe that's where the height plays a factor because it just seemed like if you can muck up his passing lanes he gets uncomfortable and wants the leave the pocket and if you contain him in there he struggles a lot.

Of course part of that is due to his offensive line but he still seems to just plain not like being in the pocket and prefers to scramble around before either running or deciding to pass the ball.

Kap's problem is the quality and familiarity with his weapons. Davis is really the only guy he had prior experience with before the season started and Boldin is really the only WR he can depend on. The issue is Davis is the only guy that scares defenses. Boldin is great but he's best when he's outfighting people for the ball so you're not going to really worry about being able to cover him like Davis. Wilson doesn't have an outstanding corp of guys himself but there is some familiarity there and I think he has more guys that he can throw to than Kap.

To me both guys have the "IT" factor, highly intelligent, hard working, and off the charts intangibles.

Both QBs just need experience and keep working at getting better.

Wilson hasn't had the opportunity to stay in the pocket with key offensive line injuries though... Both guy's can play though no question so it comes down to other factors... receiver separation... Line play.. running game... I think both teams are solid but right now Kap does have the better 0-line to work behind ... Niners O-line is probably the best in the NFL... Once Okung and Breno get back that will even out a bit...

 

[yossarian]

When there has been a pocket created for Wilson he hasn't looked impressive, that's why I'm not sold on the o line injuries being an excuse for his pocket presence. He's actually been his best when plays have broken down, so maybe he owes what he has done well to his crappy line. That being said, he's been better than Kaepernick, but I think the loss of Manningham and Crabtree and no Delanie Walker this year has led to Kaepernick locking in on receivers -- I don't think he did that as much last year, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember it being an issue. As far as the smarts question -- I don't know that Wilson makes smarter decisions football wise -- I'm still struck by Goodwin's comment last year that in the Atlanta game Kaepernick audibled 40% of the time and had them in the right call just about every time, I don't remember ever hearing a similar story about Wilson and I live in Seattle and read the papers so I would have read something about that. In any event Kaepernick not only scored higher on the Wonderlic, he was also recruited by Ivy League schools out of high school, but went to Nevada to play football on scholarship -- he is extremely smart. Wilson on the other hand is so full of platitudes it's hard to tell what's going on inside his head, I personally think spouting platitudes all the time is sort of intellectually lazy but that's just me. And before anyone talks about Kaepernick's monosyllabic press conferences, that's just truculence and being dick to the press - and he's actually gotten better at that anyway.

 

[gohusk]

Wilson's problems in the pocket are

1. The thrown together offensive line doesn't seem capable of creating one
2. We don't have anybody that can run a tight slant
3. Wilson is averse to turning the ball over so he doesn't want to try to force it

One of the big issues is that Miller has been out. Last night he had that TD threaded in fromstraight back in the pocket and he hit him one other time that I can remember on a slant for a nice gain. They were trying to run slants with Kearse last week and both the attempts I saw were batted away because he made poor inside moves and wasn't able to get the inside angle. The play calling has been pretty crappy as well. We haven't been running any screens out of the backfield and it seems like all we run are out routes the majority of the time.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

When there has been a pocket created for Wilson he hasn't looked impressive, that's why I'm not sold on the o line injuries being an excuse for his pocket presence. He's actually been his best when plays have broken down, so maybe he owes what he has done well to his crappy line. That being said, he's been better than Kaepernick, but I think the loss of Manningham and Crabtree and no Delanie Walker this year has led to Kaepernick locking in on receivers -- I don't think he did that as much last year, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember it being an issue. As far as the smarts question -- I don't know that Wilson makes smarter decisions football wise -- I'm still struck by Goodwin's comment last year that in the Atlanta game Kaepernick audibled 40% of the time and had them in the right call just about every time, I don't remember ever hearing a similar story about Wilson and I live in Seattle and read the papers so I would have read something about that. In any event Kaepernick not only scored higher on the Wonderlic, he was also recruited by Ivy League schools out of high school, but went to Nevada to play football on scholarship -- he is extremely smart. Wilson on the other hand is so full of platitudes it's hard to tell what's going on inside his head, I personally think spouting platitudes all the time is sort of intellectually lazy but that's just me. And before anyone talks about Kaepernick's monosyllabic press conferences, that's just truculence and being dick to the press - and he's actually gotten better at that anyway.

OH MAN ... Trust me I watch every Seattle game and losing Okung and Breno and then Unger was not just O-lineman it was OUR BEST O-lineman... The pressure has been ridiculous.. As far as smarts Wilson has one massive intangible... HE NEVER GET'S RATTLED... Even with our line playing like @#^ the guy just stay's focused and NEVER changes his mental attitude no matter what the situation is.. He just makes play's and never get's high or low...

 

[RoboticDreams]

Wilson's problems in the pocket are

1. The thrown together offensive line doesn't seem capable of creating one
2. We don't have anybody that can run a tight slant
3. Wilson is averse to turning the ball over so he doesn't want to try to force it

One of the big issues is that Miller has been out. Last night he had that TD threaded in fromstraight back in the pocket and he hit him one other time that I can remember on a slant for a nice gain. They were trying to run slants with Kearse last week and both the attempts I saw were batted away because he made poor inside moves and wasn't able to get the inside angle. The play calling has been pretty crappy as well. We haven't been running any screens out of the backfield and it seems like all we run are out routes the majority of the time.

Not being a dick but, his height is a disadvantage in the pocket. They roll him out, similar to the way NOLA does, Brees. Those behemoths up front make it hard for him to see his receivers. I'm not sure, haven't noticed if he takes a lot of 7 step drops. I admit, I cannot stand watching him avoid sacks the way he does, and make something out of nothing. Drives me fucking insane.

 

[yossarian]

OH MAN ... Trust me I watch every Seattle game and losing Okung and Breno and then Unger was not just O-lineman it was OUR BEST O-lineman... The pressure has been ridiculous.. As far as smarts Wilson has one massive intangible... HE NEVER GET'S RATTLED... Even with our line playing like @#^ the guy just stay's focused and NEVER changes his mental attitude no matter what the situation is.. He just makes play's and never get's high or low...

Totally agree Wilson does not get rattled. It's a true gift. And the pressure has been ridiculous, no question. The point I was trying to make is that if Wilson is doing his best stuff outside of the pocket, when the play is breaking down, then the o line situation is not the explanation for him looking uncomfortable inside the pocket, because if that was true he'd look uncomfortable running for his life outside of the pocket and that isn't the case.

 

[gohusk]

Not being a dick but, his height is a disadvantage in the pocket. They roll him out, similar to the way NOLA does, Brees. Those behemoths up front make it hard for him to see his receivers. I'm not sure, haven't noticed if he takes a lot of 7 step drops. I admit, I cannot stand watching him avoid sacks the way he does, and make something out of nothing. Drives me fucking insane.

He has designed rolls but they have him take straight drops as well. The problem is that there's nobody there to hit quick. 1st half against Carolina to open the season it was the stupid read option with nothing over the middle and we floundered. 2nd half we start working the middle and he ends up with 300 yards. We were working the middle last night and other stuff started opening up. I don't think that Miller is a great TE but he and Wilson have some chemistry and Wilson has faith in his hands. Just about every QB uses passing lanes. The thing with short qb's is that they usually have small hands and short wingspan to go along with it which compounds the problems. That's not the case with Wilson. He was given a 5'10 trunk with 6'5 arms and hands so there's a high release point, good throwing radius, and strong hands. We'll really see how much of a pocket passer he is when Harvin shows up because he makes his living in the slot. If Wilson can't hit him on a slant because he's too short then the trade was stupid.

 

[whysies]

Russell Wilson may be 5'10 but don't worry, he's actually built like someone who is 6'5. And his IQ is 2 trillion. And he runs a 3.98 forty in full pads. And he saves puppies from burning buildings. And he has a 17 inch penis.

Seahawks fans- please, stop. We are suspicious of him being a good long term starting QB because he's a little guy who struggles to throw from the pocket. There isn't a very long list of NFL QBs who have had success given those limitations so please understand why we have our suspicions. We think it's great that you are happy with your QB and this has nothing to do with Kaepernick at all. We are just assessing what we have seen on the field. And we are doing it on our board. No reason to get so bent out of shape that you have to ad hom our asses to death or come up with more excuses/lies to add to the living legend that is Russell Wilson. Just let his play speak for itself.

 

[gohusk]

///

Russell Wilson may be 5'10 but don't worry, he's actually built like someone who is 6'5. And his IQ is 2 trillion. And he runs a 3.98 forty in full pads. And he saves puppies from burning buildings. And he has a 17 inch penis.

Seahawks fans- please, stop. We are suspicious of him being a good long term starting QB because he's a little guy who struggles to throw from the pocket. There isn't a very long list of NFL QBs who have had success given those limitations so please understand why we have our suspicions. We think it's great that you are happy with your QB and this has nothing to do with Kaepernick at all. We are just assessing what we have seen on the field. And we are doing it on our board. No reason to get so bent out of shape that you have to ad hom our asses to death or come up with more excuses/lies to add to the living legend that is Russell Wilson. Just let his play speak for itself.

That's wishful thinking on your part.


I saw a Wilson/Kaepernick thread and I responded to it. No getting out of shape. But as far as lies/wishful thinking goes:

Through six games in 2013, Wilson has posted a 93.7 QB efficiency rating from the pocket, which ranks No. 7 in the NFL, ahead of Andrew Luck, Matt Stafford, Newton, Ben Roethlisberger, Robert Griffin III, Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick, among others.


Saying he can't throw from the pocket or that he's some one trick pony is wishful thinking. Teams have had the entire offseason to prepare for Wilson and he's still top 10 in qb rating with a banged up offensive line and not much to work with at WR. Teams have also had an entire season to prepare for the pistol and you guys dropped it. Now Kap doesn't seem like much of an upgrade over smith. He was one of the highest rated passers in the league before he got benched. If anybody has to prove he's nothing but a gimmick I'd say it's Kap at this point.

I'll leave you guys alone though. You seem to be mostly classy and I'll respect your board. Just don't like being taunted by someone who thinks he knows what he's talking about but doesn't. He doesn't even know what the biggest problem with our passing game is. The thing that teams have figured out is that Wilson was making his living last year on those back shoulder throws because none of our guys can get separation. This year it's pretty clear that db's are aware of this and just staying stride for stride and getting hands up Rice/Tate/Baldwin have great hands but they're slow and if that doesn't work then they just aren't that good. I also doubt that Rice is anywhere near 100% right now because I can't imagine a guy who's been solid forgetting how to play the position at hs age. And I can bash Kap all I want to on your board but the fact is that I really don't know what I'm talking about. It's just a bunch of superficial bs from an uninformed fan of another team (kind of like the whole "he's short" line that constantly gets thrown out there with Wilson by everyone)

The first game left a pretty nasty welt on both teams and it's pretty amazing that we have only 3 losses between us. I don't care what the score was, it left a mark on both of our squads. Hopefully we don't beat each other into a one and done in the playoffs and there's a chance for a round 3 with everything on the line. Good luck on the rest of the season.

 

[erckm510]

"Through six games in 2013, Wilson has posted a 93.7 QB efficiency rating from the pocket"

Does anyone know where I can see these efficiency ratings? Can't find it anywhere.

 

[purguy12]

Im a Kap fan and feel he will be fine but I would like to see a Big Game this week from him. We havent seen a Big game from him since week 1. I want to see a Big game.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Wilson's problems in the pocket are

1. The thrown together offensive line doesn't seem capable of creating one
2. We don't have anybody that can run a tight slant
3. Wilson is averse to turning the ball over so he doesn't want to try to force it

One of the big issues is that Miller has been out. Last night he had that TD threaded in fromstraight back in the pocket and he hit him one other time that I can remember on a slant for a nice gain. They were trying to run slants with Kearse last week and both the attempts I saw were batted away because he made poor inside moves and wasn't able to get the inside angle. The play calling has been pretty crappy as well. We haven't been running any screens out of the backfield and it seems like all we run are out routes the majority of the time.

That's not what I saw. I saw Wilson throw inaccurate balls that his receivers couldn't bring in.

Your list 1-3 is precisely the reason Hawks fans get criticized for lacking objectivity. None of Russell's limitations are his own. It's all because of something else. That's BS. And the Miller excuse is fairly laughable. Miller had 396 yards in 16 games last year. I'm sure the Hawks felt his two-game absence, but he's been an integral part of the passing game for the Hawks precisely one time with Wilson under center: in the Atlanta game. In his 22 other starts with Wilson, he's never cracked 60 yards and has only broken 50 yards once.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Im a Kap fan and feel he will be fine but I would like to see a Big Game this week from him. We havent seen a Big game from him since week 1. I want to see a Big game.

Not likely against the Titans. They've got a great pass D.

 

[gohusk]

That's not what I saw. I saw Wilson throw inaccurate balls that his receivers couldn't bring in.

Your list 1-3 is precisely the reason Hawks fans get criticized for lacking objectivity. None of Russell's limitations are his own. It's all because of something else. That's BS. And the Miller excuse is fairly laughable. Miller had 396 yards in 16 games last year. I'm sure the Hawks felt his two-game absence, but he's been an integral part of the passing game for the Hawks precisely one time with Wilson under center: in the Atlanta game. In his 22 other starts with Wilson, he's never cracked 60 yards and has only broken 50 yards once.

This is in response to him being "unable to throw in the pocket because he's too short". Miller's presence is important because right now he's the only guy that seems to be able to work the center of the field. So you can say the numbers are low, but the fact is that defenses don't need to cover 10-15 over the middle because we aren't even running those routes. He tries to hit Kearse twice last week and he made a shabby cut that the defender was able to bat away. He's obviously not perfect. But you guys want to dismiss him as being useless unless he breaks containment which isn't the case.

And saying I'm some homer is ridiculous. Here's some of my posts from the Carolina game below and I was getting burned on my own board for bringing the points up. I think I have a pretty good handle on where he is as a QB. Some of you guys don't and completely ignore the other problems with the offense right now because you're so focused on this ridiculous Kap/Wilson crap. He's obviously not perfect but missing key guys on the o-line out which is forcing RB/TE to stay behind the LOS to help protect obviously has an impact. People that actually follow the team probably more than they should are actually able to put everything in its proper context. It's like a Hawks fan dismissing your #1 receiver being out and your all world TE not being at 100% when talking about Kap. Fun to do but nothing but dribble.

Originally Posted by gohusk
11 straight completions and no points. Most of the throws are behind the 1st down marker and we're grinding it out for stalled drives. He's got to get the ball out quicker. That's painfully obvious.
dude, give it a rest already. So far you believe all of the problems are on wilson. Lynch hasn't been effective AT ALL and the line has been horrible, but it's all wilson. We get it. Haters are haters and we won't be able to use reason with you, but we get your message loud and clear.

Ah, so you had way over-exaggerated expectations due to media hype and are ready to call it quits after one half of one game. Can't argue with people who make up their minds so carry on.
Simple question. Why don't we hit more quick slants? You can't be a solid qb in the NFL if you can't hit that route. We hardly ever throw it and we need it. QB's need to play the middle of the field.

again, you are reading way too much into the first game and not even the whole game
No, I just have some expectations of the most hyped team going into the season. SB contenders cream the teams that they should cream. The line needs to block better and Wilson has to get the ball out quicker. I'm starting to wonder why he can't get the ball out quick. The only time he does is on those WR screens. If he can't throw the slant then we have issues. It doesn't even seem to be in the playbook.

 

[WizardHawk]

Both teams have had their struggles at WR, but during this stretch Seattle has a patchwork O line so you can't directly compare the two. In the early season I think Wilson was showing a lot more poise in the pocket. He struggled early with some of the long throws and I believe it was due to them changing his release point and velocity in the off season. He isn't overthrowing nearly as many now so he is either going back to his old release or adapting.

Once Seattle has their O line back you can compare where both are at with some fairness.

Right now I'd still give the edge to Wilson just because of how well he is doing with a terrible line, but then Kaep isn't being asked to do the same thing so that too isn't quite fair.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Totally agree Wilson does not get rattled. It's a true gift. And the pressure has been ridiculous, no question. The point I was trying to make is that if Wilson is doing his best stuff outside of the pocket, when the play is breaking down, then the o line situation is not the explanation for him looking uncomfortable inside the pocket, because if that was true he'd look uncomfortable running for his life outside of the pocket and that isn't the case.

I don't think he's uncomfortable in the pocket, I think maybe there are times he might hang onto the ball a little too long checking down so that's one area he needs to grow a little... He's good at extending play's when he does sense the pressure... One BIG mistake he did make in that Cards game is running right before halftime when we were in field goal range with NO time-outs on 3rd down... The holding penalty basically saved us 3 points because time would a ran out... He needed to just throw that ball away if nothing was there and save the field goal attempt .. That to me was the biggest mistake he made all night mentally.. The sacks I'll give to the Cards because they did a good job applying pressure and I think coverage downfield was good ...

 

[purguy12]

Wilson gets rattled all the time. Defense has 2 wins this year because of pick 6's. He hasnt had a great year either. Thursday night game was the 1st game I was wow Wilson looks good. He got rattled last year in the playoffs.

 

[gohusk]

Wilson gets rattled all the time. Defense has 2 wins this year because of pick 6's. He hasnt had a great year either. Thursday night game was the 1st game I was wow Wilson looks good. He got rattled last year in the playoffs.

There's a difference between getting rattled and playing poorly. He's played poorly as much as every other young, promising qb. But he's also the guy on the sidelines that has the guts to be a cheerleader even when he is playing like crap. Golden Tate just said they'd run through a wall for him at this point. I remember when Stafford was in his rookie year (playing awful) and trying to talk to Calvin Johnson on the sidelines and Johnson completely blew him off. Stafford could have moped or got pissed off but he stuck with it. But he stuck with it and the team eventually lined up behind him. He gets a lot of heat for god knows what reason but that guy can sling the ball. A big part of poise is being able to rally the troops even when you're one of the big reasons the team is in such a hole to begin with. Wilson's proven he can do that.