Royals take the series from the Tigers, again

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Sanchez is having a great year, but he might not even make it to 180 IP. It's not like he's blowing the rest of the pitchers away in ERA/ERA+ or anything else. Kind of hard to really consider him for CYA. Same with Buchholz in 2010.

Sanchez is having a fine season- albeit a partial season- and has really come into his own over the last two seasons, but mentioning him for the CYA is laughable because of the limited number of innings he's pitched. There are 5 places on the CYA ballot. Scherzer, Darvish and Sale are obviously going to appear on just about everyone's ballot. That leaves two more spots for a combination of other pitchers. Who in their right mind is going to give Sanchez votes over guys like Hernandez and Iwakuma who have equally impressive numbers in 40 more innings pitched?

 

[da55bums]

Torii Hunter turned 38 in July. Get your shit straight Bums, ya freakin' maroon.

and will be 39 in '14...got ya, thanks...

The Tigers, essentially, Miggy and Verlander...have had their career years, you might be able to say that about Max and Fielder also, that most likely will never be topped and if the Tigers do not accomplish a Title this year will have to add some signifcant help...not just talking about some average FA players that replace Hunter and Vmart, that just makes it a wash for those 2

Miggy, Fielder, Verlander and Max will not have a better season like they have already had in their careers, could maybe come close at best......their career years have been used if they don't win it this year. You can say they are in their prime all you want but 2006 to 2012 is already 6 years of their "window" and all teams have them and they don't stay open forever. They are on the down side of their window...13 and 14, 2 years left and if lucky 15, 16 maybe 17...all depending on Miggy and JV. Even if its all the way to 18...that would be 6 years and a 12 yr window...10 years is great, 12 years would be amazing.

The window with all teams, in baseball history, opens and closes...if you think the tigers window will be open for decades...hey more power to you. The strength of teams isn't with their Star players, teams strengths come from its complimentary players.

There isn't a team playoff bound who would claim..

Coke
AA
Kelly
Santiago
Worth

But yet the Tigers didn't bother claiming better players on the waiver wire to give themselves a chance to improve or even replace with minor leaguer (unless there just isn't anything the Tigers have developed well enough to replace any of these 5)...it is a mistake they keep making the last few years if they don't win it this year hopefully they will do it differently to at least give themselves a chance.

Ted Williams is the best hitter who ever played but now look at the players who played with him...he couldn't carried his team to a WS Title...it just doesn't work in baseball...some bad players can really offset the best players on any team. Its the Tigers weakest players and the front office's failure to address it that is holding them back during the studs career years. They have to decide to go all in at some point.

Pitt's front office has, they have a serious shot at it all with the moves they made before the season and late in the season. If they don't, at least they can say they did all they could do.

With a open bank account like Detroits, did they address their weakness before the deadline with the best available options or did they stand pat thinking that they had no weaknesses to address?

 

[da55bums]

Jackson doesn't even strikeout that much anyway. His K% has been improving over the last few years.

improving? yes from 180 ks to what 130 to 140...still not good for a leadoff guy...and his SB success rate, if you call it that, is getting worse...

3 k to 1 walk ratio...so De Aza is a good leadoff hitter to then with his numbers, Stubbs and Fowler also...feel free to show me some historically good leadoff hitter with Jackkkksons...strikeout numbers as well as his sb numbers, heck all of his numbers..

Guess Tori Hunter was a great CF in his prime, maybe HOFer, if Jackson's numbers are what constitutes good.

 

[da55bums]

Sanchez is having a great year, but he might not even make it to 180 IP. It's not like he's blowing the rest of the pitchers away in ERA/ERA+ or anything else. Kind of hard to really consider him for CYA. Same with Buchholz in 2010.

Fair enough, so Sanchez is good, not great...that would make Fister average to good depending on his injury status...and Porcello is well Porcello.

I will agree with that assesment.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

and will be 39 in '14...got ya, thanks...

The Tigers, essentially, Miggy and Verlander...have had their career years, you might be able to say that about Max and Fielder also, that most likely will never be topped and if the Tigers do not accomplish a Title this year will have to add some signifcant help...not just talking about some average FA players that replace Hunter and Vmart, that just makes it a wash for those 2

Miggy, Fielder, Verlander and Max will not have a better season like they have already had in their careers, could maybe come close at best......their career years have been used if they don't win it this year. You can say they are in their prime all you want but 2006 to 2012 is already 6 years of their "window" and all teams have them and they don't stay open forever. They are on the down side of their window...13 and 14, 2 years left and if lucky 15, 16 maybe 17...all depending on Miggy and JV. Even if its all the way to 18...that would be 6 years and a 12 yr window...10 years is great, 12 years would be amazing.

The window with all teams, in baseball history, opens and closes...if you think the tigers window will be open for decades...hey more power to you. The strength of teams isn't with their Star players, teams strengths come from its complimentary players.

There isn't a team playoff bound who would claim..

Coke
AA
Kelly
Santiago
Worth

But yet the Tigers didn't bother claiming better players on the waiver wire to give themselves a chance to improve or even replace with minor leaguer (unless there just isn't anything the Tigers have developed well enough to replace any of these 5)...it is a mistake they keep making the last few years if they don't win it this year hopefully they will do it differently to at least give themselves a chance.

Ted Williams is the best hitter who ever played but now look at the players who played with him...he couldn't carried his team to a WS Title...it just doesn't work in baseball...some bad players can really offset the best players on any team. Its the Tigers weakest players and the front office's failure to address it that is holding them back during the studs career years. They have to decide to go all in at some point.

Pitt's front office has, they have a serious shot at it all with the moves they made before the season and late in the season. If they don't, at least they can say they did all they could do.

With a open bank account like Detroits, did they address their weakness before the deadline with the best available options or did they stand pat thinking that they had no weaknesses to address?

This is honestly a really, really terrible post with just about nothing of value contained in its bazillion paragraphs. You keep going on and on about career years. Why does it matter when a player has his career year? Players can only be great in one season? If it's not a "career year", is it somehow a poor season? Justin Verlander and Prince Fielder is having the 2nd worst years of their career, yet the Tigers are still going to make the playoffs without difficulty. You keep going on and on about Hunter and Martinez. The team went to the World Series last year, and those two weren't even on the club.

Who said anything about competing for decades???? Then you start blathering about the waiver wire and Ted Williams? This is borderline comical.

I'm not even a Tiger fan. I'm a Yankee fan who has all the reason in the world to hate and try and pick apart the Tigers. But, luckily, I'm capable of being objective and rational. The Tigers have their flaws, but there's no reason to believe the Tigers are going to just fall apart.

 

[broncosmitty]

and will be 39 in '14...got ya, thanks...

The Tigers, essentially, Miggy and Verlander...have had their career years, you might be able to say that about Max and Fielder also, that most likely will never be topped and if the Tigers do not accomplish a Title this year will have to add some signifcant help...not just talking about some average FA players that replace Hunter and Vmart, that just makes it a wash for those 2

Miggy, Fielder, Verlander and Max will not have a better season like they have already had in their careers, could maybe come close at best......their career years have been used if they don't win it this year. You can say they are in their prime all you want but 2006 to 2012 is already 6 years of their "window" and all teams have them and they don't stay open forever. They are on the down side of their window...13 and 14, 2 years left and if lucky 15, 16 maybe 17...all depending on Miggy and JV. Even if its all the way to 18...that would be 6 years and a 12 yr window...10 years is great, 12 years would be amazing.

The window with all teams, in baseball history, opens and closes...if you think the tigers window will be open for decades...hey more power to you. The strength of teams isn't with their Star players, teams strengths come from its complimentary players.

There isn't a team playoff bound who would claim..

Coke
AA
Kelly
Santiago
Worth

But yet the Tigers didn't bother claiming better players on the waiver wire to give themselves a chance to improve or even replace with minor leaguer (unless there just isn't anything the Tigers have developed well enough to replace any of these 5)...it is a mistake they keep making the last few years if they don't win it this year hopefully they will do it differently to at least give themselves a chance.

Ted Williams is the best hitter who ever played but now look at the players who played with him...he couldn't carried his team to a WS Title...it just doesn't work in baseball...some bad players can really offset the best players on any team. Its the Tigers weakest players and the front office's failure to address it that is holding them back during the studs career years. They have to decide to go all in at some point.

Pitt's front office has, they have a serious shot at it all with the moves they made before the season and late in the season. If they don't, at least they can say they did all they could do.

With a open bank account like Detroits, did they address their weakness before the deadline with the best available options or did they stand pat thinking that they had no weaknesses to address?

How many different boards do you need to troll and get kicked out of before you're happy?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

improving? yes from 180 ks to what 130 to 140...still not good for a leadoff guy...and his SB success rate, if you call it that, is getting worse...

3 k to 1 walk ratio...so De Aza is a good leadoff hitter to then with his numbers, Stubbs and Fowler also...feel free to show me some historically good leadoff hitter with Jackkkksons...strikeout numbers as well as his sb numbers, heck all of his numbers..

Guess Tori Hunter was a great CF in his prime, maybe HOFer, if Jackson's numbers are what constitutes good.

You seem to be obsessed with strikeouts from a leadoff hitter. Why does that matter at all? If it was a #3 or #4 hitter, I could see cause for concern, but to a leadoff hitter, a strikeout is just an out. The only stat that really matters for a leadoff hitter is OBP. Jackson's OBP is near the top among AL leadoff hitters.

You seem to have very little understanding about leadoff hitters. Their job is to get on base as much as possible to set up your 3/4/5 hitters. Dexter Fowler has averaged a .374 OBP over the last three seasons. That's outstanding. Then you mention Da Aza, whose OBP isn't nearly as good as Jackson's and Drew Stubbs, who isn't even a leadoff hitter. Get a fucking clue, son.

 

[da55bums]

This is honestly a really, really terrible post with just about nothing of value contained in its bazillion paragraphs. You keep going on and on about career years. Why does it matter when a player has his career year? Players can only be great in one season? If it's not a "career year", is it somehow a poor season? Justin Verlander and Prince Fielder is having the 2nd worst years of their career, yet the Tigers are still going to make the playoffs without difficulty. You keep going on and on about Hunter and Martinez. The team went to the World Series last year, and those two weren't even on the club.

Who said anything about competing for decades???? Then you start blathering about the waiver wire and Ted Williams? This is borderline comical.

I'm not even a Tiger fan. I'm a Yankee fan who has all the reason in the world to hate and try and pick apart the Tigers. But, luckily, I'm capable of being objective and rational. The Tigers have their flaws, but there's no reason to believe the Tigers are going to just fall apart.

its really simple....the Tigers have been competitive for 6 and now 7 years, playoff worthy and potentially WS winners, the "window" starts to close for every team......they really need to go for it, this year or the next 1 or 2 years or the opportunity will slip out of their hands...

Thats just my opionion based on the patterns seen in baseball history....the big red machine, the A's, the killer B's, etc...etc... the Yanks even......every team goes through cycles...The Tigers cycle will be with Miggy and JV and its now year 7 for them, the window if they don't win it this year will start to close...I didn't say close completely which seems like what you think I said at this point, they have a big window if its 10 years or more.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Fair enough, so Sanchez is good, not great...that would make Fister average to good depending on his injury status...and Porcello is well Porcello.

I will agree with that assesment.

Sanchez is having a great year, it's just in limited innings due to his DL stint. Fister is having a good season. I don't see why Porcello matters, considering no team carries 5 starters into the postseason, but FWIW, he's actually been one of the better and more reliable #5 starters this year. Seriously, go look at what other teams trot out as their #5 starter. It's usually guys like Wade Davis and Luis Mendoza with your fingers crossed that you can get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle with a Bruce Chen.

 

[da55bums]

You seem to be obsessed with strikeouts from a leadoff hitter. Why does that matter at all? If it was a #3 or #4 hitter, I could see cause for concern, but to a leadoff hitter, a strikeout is just an out. The only stat that really matters for a leadoff hitter is OBP. Jackson's OBP is near the top among AL leadoff hitters.

You seem to have very little understanding about leadoff hitters. Their job is to get on base as much as possible to set up your 3/4/5 hitters. Dexter Fowler has averaged a .374 OBP over the last three seasons. That's outstanding. Then you mention Da Aza, whose OBP isn't nearly as good as Jackson's and Drew Stubbs, who isn't even a leadoff hitter. Get a fucking clue, son.

lol, so Drew Stubbs wasn't a lead off hitter for Cinncy? guess I don't have a clue...

no kidding about leadoff hitters...lol....they are suppose to get on base?

so according to YOU and how you asses leadoff hitters, then Alex Gordon (and he is a leadoff hitter also, just to keep you in the loop) is actually BETTER than Jackkkkkson? if you want to combine Hitting and DEFENSE, lol

 

[da55bums]

Sanchez is having a great year, it's just in limited innings due to his DL stint. Fister is having a good season. I don't see why Porcello matters, considering no team carries 5 starters into the postseason, but FWIW, he's actually been one of the better and more reliable #5 starters this year. Seriously, go look at what other teams trot out as their #5 starter. It's usually guys like Wade Davis and Luis Mendoza with your fingers crossed that you can get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle with a Bruce Chen.

agree, the #5 starters on EVERY team are hoping to catch something in a bottle...every year.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

its really simple....the Tigers have been competitive for 6 and now 7 years, playoff worthy and potentially WS winners, the "window" starts to close for every team......they really need to go for it, this year or the next 1 or 2 years or the opportunity will slip out of their hands...

Thats just my opionion based on the patterns seen in baseball history....the big red machine, the A's, the killer B's, etc...etc... the Yanks even......every team goes through cycles...The Tigers cycle will be with Miggy and JV and its now year 7 for them, the window if they don't win it this year will start to close...I didn't say close completely which seems like what you think I said at this point, they have a big window if its 10 years or more.

But the team as its constituted now looks nothing like the 2006 team that went to the World Series. This is a new team with a different, stronger core.

The patterns you're referring to are indeed historically cyclical, but it usually involves the core of a team staying together, and then eventually aging and fading. Then you rebuild. The Tigers basically already did that. So by my estimation, they can figure to be a competitor until their core starts to decline. I know you'll instantly counter that with "Fielder and Verlander are already declining". But one year isn't a decline. Even the best players have down years. Their track records have earned them the benefit of the doubt for another year or two.

And again, it's not like this is a team that is strapped for cash and can't replace an aging veteran.

 

[da55bums]

How many different boards do you need to troll and get kicked out of before you're happy?

You seriously can't be this retarded....I STARTED THE THREAD...you came in HERE...I am TROLLING my OWN THREAD....lol

You don't have to come into the THREAD i started, lol....

 

[broncosmitty]

Do you even know how many players from the current roster that were also on the 06 roster? Check it out Bums, it might surprise you. This " window " idea I'm sure is comforting for you, but actual, competitive, major league franchises constantly adjust, adapt, and improve their lineups. (This years Giants not withstanding). Coke, NewMexico and Worth could all be left off the post season roster and nobody would notice. (Worth will not be on it). Kelly and Santiago continue to provide a great deal of value as utility players. I'm sure you aren't capable of appreciating their value. But that's your problem, not mine, or anyone else's who bothers to read the garbage you throw out there.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

lol, so Drew Stubbs wasn't a lead off hitter for Cinncy? guess I don't have a clue...

no kidding about leadoff hitters...lol....they are suppose to get on base?

so according to YOU and how you asses leadoff hitters, then Alex Gordon (and he is a leadoff hitter also, just to keep you in the loop) is actually BETTER than Jackkkkkson? if you want to combine Hitting and DEFENSE, lol

Drew Stubbs was last a regular leadoff hitter in 2011. That's two years ago, when he was playing for a different team, and being managed by the worst lineup manager in recent baseball history.

So you recognize that leadoff hitters are supposed to get on base? Then what's wrong with Dexter Fowler and Austin Jackson?

Why would I take Alex Gordon? He has a .327 OBP from the leadoff spot. Why would I care about defense when comparing leadoff hitters? How is that relevant to the topic of leading off?

Are you really this dense, or just trolling?

 

[da55bums]

But the team as its constituted now looks nothing like the 2006 team that went to the World Series. This is a new team with a different, stronger core.

The patterns you're referring to are indeed historically cyclical, but it usually involves the core of a team staying together, and then eventually aging and fading. Then you rebuild. The Tigers basically already did that. So by my estimation, they can figure to be a competitor until their core starts to decline. I know you'll instantly counter that with "Fielder and Verlander are already declining". But one year isn't a decline. Even the best players have down years. Their track records have earned them the benefit of the doubt for another year or two.

And again, it's not like this is a team that is strapped for cash and can't replace an aging veteran.

I am just stating that this is the 7th year for Miggy and JV...those two are the key to the Tigers...we can go back and forth on all the other players all day.....but its now year 7 for those two...and their windows are starting to close....just ask Pujols...etc....nobody knows when or how Miggy will decline....JV either...and for what reasons..but it will happen....we are not going to see players last as long anymore like we did...if they are clean...(we will never know who or will ever know who took what, absolutely pointless to even argue anymore)

 

[broncosmitty]

You seriously can't be this retarded....I STARTED THE THREAD...you came in HERE...I am TROLLING my OWN THREAD....lol

You don't have to come into the THREAD i started, lol....

Yes, youre trolling. Do you even think about the incorrect nonsense you post? This isn't the Royals board man, or nobody would have read your bs in the first place. (Sorry moose)

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Do you even know how many players from the current roster that were also on the 06 roster? Check it out Bums, it might surprise you. This " window " idea I'm sure is comforting for you, but actual, competitive, major league franchises constantly adjust, adapt, and improve their lineups. (This years Giants not withstanding). Coke, NewMexico and Worth could all be left off the post season roster and nobody would notice. (Worth will not be on it). Kelly and Santiago continue to provide a great deal of value as utility players. I'm sure you aren't capable of appreciating their value. But that's your problem, not mine, or anyone else's who bothers to read the garbage you throw out there.

Great post.

By his logic, the Tigers "clock" restarted in 2010 when they made the Granderson-Jackson-Scherzer trade. That restarted their clock. So they can expect the current core to last until around 2016-2017. That is- of course- assuming they don't retool before then, or something catastrophic doesn't happen (like a career-ending injury to Cabrera, or a complete decline from Verlander once his salary jumps up to $28M annually after next season).

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I am just stating that this is the 7th year for Miggy and JV...those two are the key to the Tigers...we can go back and forth on all the other players all day.....but its now year 7 for those two...and their windows are starting to close....just ask Pujols...etc....nobody knows when or how Miggy will decline....JV either...and for what reasons..but it will happen....we are not going to see players last as long anymore like we did...if they are clean...(we will never know who or will ever know who took what, absolutely pointless to even argue anymore)

It's actually year 6 (when has accuracy ever mattered to you?) and they're still both relatively young for superstar players, so I don't see your point.

 

[da55bums]

Drew Stubbs was last a regular leadoff hitter in 2011. That's two years ago, when he was playing for a different team, and being managed by the worst lineup manager in recent baseball history.

So you recognize that leadoff hitters are supposed to get on base? Then what's wrong with Dexter Fowler and Austin Jackson?

Why would I take Alex Gordon? He has a .327 OBP from the leadoff spot. Why would I care about defense when comparing leadoff hitters? How is that relevant to the topic of leading off?

Are you really this dense, or just trolling?

seriously, look back at just posts on this thread....it was stated Jackson's defense was a viable reason...forget it...

and if you really want to assess it....lets really look at the actual numbers.....Gordon vs Jackson OPS in only the 1st at bat of the game...if you really want...because after that...Jackson's worse SB percentage...Jackson's less power and Jackson's K rate goes into full effect.....the leadoff hitter is only that for 1 ab a game..

Name calling? noticing a pattern of name calling, thats a way to sell your viewpoint...I said this, your a this, lol....guess you win, you called me more names..