Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[Sharkinva]

Well...they could have let him walk before the first tag ..no?? If KC was so sure that he would have gotten a better offer then why did he sign the tender? Why did he not test the waters? Simple. He knew he wouldn't get a better offer than the $20 million he made in the tag. You can't criticize the FO for not signing him to a LTD after 2015 yet call foul on KC being disrespected when he didn't even test the waters. The only way he would have gotten a contract in that range was if it was from a crappy team.

Good point. But then if they are not sure he is the long term answer, why use the exclusive rights tag this year?? As we have seen with Kirk, a crappy team ( Washington 2013-2014) can all of a sudden become a not so crappy team with a solid QB. Now actually add a solid defense on top of that, and I wonder what you get?? Are we a Super Bowl lock with Cousins?? Probably not. But if the team thought it was so easy to replace him, then the exclusive tag made no sense, because it would have been in thier best interest to let him talk to other team, and take a first and a 3rd for a QB that they (or at least some of the fan base) really dont believe in.

 

[Sleepy T]

So do me a favor, slip me your bosses email addy, so I can tell him you are OK with him considering what they already paid you as a part of future compensation come next annual review.

Most of us common people don't sign long term deals with our respective employers. But just for the sake of discussion, this is more like the KC scenario I just laid out...

I got paid around 40k for 2015, kicked ass, my company really likes what I am doing. They raise my salary up to 100k for 2016, a good wage in the upper 25% of wage earners doing what I do. 2016 comes and goes and I kick ass again. They guarantee me two years and a pay bump up to 150k.

Sure, I could go elsewhere and make $160-$170, but I work for a good company who I am comfortable with, like my co-workers, like my first and second line management. Don't really care for the big boss as he doesn't pat me on the back and stroke my ego every time we see each other at the coffee pot. But I don't really give damn, as long as they keep paying me in the Top 10% of my occupation every couple weeks and the people who I really work closely with respect and work with me...I'm good.

Of course I could still trade it all in for an extra 10-20k a year...the new company might suck, their management might suck. Hell, they perform so poorly they may not even be around in a few years.

 

[Sharkinva]

Most of us common people don't sign long term deals with our respective employers. But just for the sake of discussion, this is more like the KC scenario I just laid out...

I got paid around 40k for 2015, kicked ass, my company really likes what I am doing. They raise my salary up to 100k for 2016, a good wage in the upper 25% of wage earners doing what I do. 2016 comes and goes and I kick ass again. They guarantee me two years and a pay bump up to 150k.

Sure, I could go elsewhere and make $160-$170, but I work for a good company who I am comfortable with, like my co-workers, like my first and second line management. Don't really care for the big boss as he doesn't pat me on the back and stroke my ego every time we see each other at the coffee pot. But I don't really give damn, as long as they keep paying me in the Top 10% of my occupation every couple weeks and the people who I really work closely with respect and work with me...I'm good.

Of course I could still trade it all in for an extra 10-20k a year...the new company might suck, their management might suck. Hell, they perform so poorly they may not even be around in a few years.

Nice hypo, but its apparent you have never been a contractor. If you are on a contract basis (as in you get paid for the year at $100K) and the following yer the company decides, we are not ready to sign you on long term, but we are going to extend your contract to $120K. Come year three, why would you take $80K when they have shown a willingness to pay you $120K. Sure you like the guys you work with, and the next company willing to pay you $140K might not be as sweet a gig. But at the end of the day, once you are an at will employee, the boss could decide at any time to replace you with the wonder kid from MIT for half your salary. So in that case, why would you do the company a favor knowing that you are at risk beyond year one of your new deal in any case??

And what you are missing is, they are not guaranteeing him anything more than $27M. So would you sign your life away for the next six years for 13% more now than what you make, knowing that you are 100% subject to losing your job in a year if the boss gets a wild hair up his ass??

 

[gkekoa]

Nobody is asking KC to take a pay cut. Maybe just be a little flexible during negotiations. If we offered him $48 million guaranteed over the first 2 years of his contract (basically the tag x 2) and 24 million APY over another 3 years that would pay him $68 million guaranteed over 3 years and another $72 mill over the final 3 years. Do you not think that would be fair?

Why should he be flexible for an unpredictable front office? Why should he just take two years at a guarantee when most others get 2 years and a huge signing bonus? Again, what he made last year, is not relevant to the market this season. Also, if the team wants him LT, why not guarantee 2 years and a signing bonus on a five or even six year contract?

Maybe he would take it? Lol. IMHO if this contract is offered his agent should recommend he run to the office and sign it.

This is all hypothetical skins dad. I know there are a lot of rumors out there and none of ushttuly know what is going on from either side. If they offer this contract to Kirk do you think it is more than fair? $68 million guaranteed ($20 already paid) for a de facto 6 year contract worth $140 million Yes or No??

If they offer him 6 years, 140, with 68 guaranteed, I am sure he will sign it...but no...there is no defacto last season. Skins gambled...Skins lost.

Well...they could have let him walk before the first tag ..no?? If KC was so sure that he would have gotten a better offer then why did he sign the tender? Why did he not test the waters? Simple. He knew he wouldn't get a better offer than the $20 million he made in the tag. You can't criticize the FO for not signing him to a LTD after 2015 yet call foul on KC being disrespected when he didn't even test the waters. The only way he would have gotten a contract in that range was if it was from a crappy team.

He signed the tender because he didn't have the money to leave on the table. He was on a fourth round rookie contract. If he doesn't sign the tender, he isn't a FA. He sits out a year and gets no pay.

If you think the team really matters to a guy that has a choice of 20 million or 500k, you are delusional.

Most of us common people don't sign long term deals with our respective employers. But just for the sake of discussion, this is more like the KC scenario I just laid out...

I got paid around 40k for 2015, kicked ass, my company really likes what I am doing. They raise my salary up to 100k for 2016, a good wage in the upper 25% of wage earners doing what I do. 2016 comes and goes and I kick ass again. They guarantee me two years and a pay bump up to 150k.

Sure, I could go elsewhere and make $160-$170, but I work for a good company who I am comfortable with, like my co-workers, like my first and second line management. Don't really care for the big boss as he doesn't pat me on the back and stroke my ego every time we see each other at the coffee pot. But I don't really give damn, as long as they keep paying me in the Top 10% of my occupation every couple weeks and the people who I really work closely with respect and work with me...I'm good.

Of course I could still trade it all in for an extra 10-20k a year...the new company might suck, their management might suck. Hell, they perform so poorly they may not even be around in a few years.

There is no comparison. If you suck, you get fired and need a new job to live. If KC struggled, he could retire very comfortably for the rest of his life.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

People need to get over the money aspect already. This is what these guys do for a living. Personally I have no issue with someone making as much as possible as long as they put out a decent effort. After all their main reason for being in the NFL is making money - other things are nice, but that is the reality.

I also think folks need to realize that in another year or so teams like the 49ers may be viewed in a completely different light. They have made huge changes with their new young coach & GM. Thus far it appears to be very promising in SF. Who knows how it will unfold, but my pt is that some of these opportunities may look much better in another year or two. That is why it is likely best to wrap Cousins up now.

 

[Sleepy T]

If they offer him 6 years, 140, with 68 guaranteed, I am sure he will sign it...but no...there is no defacto last season. Skins gambled...Skins lost.

He signed the tender because he didn't have the money to leave on the table. He was on a fourth round rookie contract. If he doesn't sign the tender, he isn't a FA. He sits out a year and gets no pay.

If you think the team really matters to a guy that has a choice of 20 million or 500k, you are delusional.

I don't claim to be a rookie contract expert, but we could have cut him after the 2015 season if we wanted to go another direction, correct? At that point he could have went anywhere he wanted? Looks to me we had 3 options at the end of 2015, cut him, sign him LT, or tag him. We tagged him and paid a premium for 2016. He was paid very well for 2016.

Furthermore, he still could have negotiated with other teams on the non-exclusive tag. Looks to me like no other team thought enough of him either to pay him $20 million + APY on a lucrative LTD AND give up 2 1st rounders. Kirk likely had options if he really disliked being here. Those options may not have been very good ones.

Also, Gruden just signed an extension, that is probably what matters more than anything. Who you are playing for. Uncertainty in the FO?? ..hell KC may have his fingers crossed that Allen is sent packing after this year. Dan ain't going nowhere. As long as the paycheck is in the bank every month I doubt KC is too concerned about who is signing it.
There is always going be uncertainty within organizations. As you said, if you suck, you're gone. That holds true for Kirk's bro Kyle Shanny as well. If he does not show significant improvements over the next 3 years...his ass is gone too.

 

[deanpet21]

Dean you been right what... once in the last five years?? And even on that one, the player you were right about wasnt worth what you were willing to give up to get him. Kudos bro, Kudos.

I may not always be right but im never wrong.

 

[Sleepy T]

Nice hypo, but its apparent you have never been a contractor. If you are on a contract basis (as in you get paid for the year at $100K) and the following yer the company decides, we are not ready to sign you on long term, but we are going to extend your contract to $120K. Come year three, why would you take $80K when they have shown a willingness to pay you $120K. Sure you like the guys you work with, and the next company willing to pay you $140K might not be as sweet a gig. But at the end of the day, once you are an at will employee, the boss could decide at any time to replace you with the wonder kid from MIT for half your salary. So in that case, why would you do the company a favor knowing that you are at risk beyond year one of your new deal in any case??

And what you are missing is, they are not guaranteeing him anything more than $27M. So would you sign your life away for the next six years for 13% more now than what you make, knowing that you are 100% subject to losing your job in a year if the boss gets a wild hair up his ass??

No, never worked under a contract. A lot of the people in my field do work under contracts (working on the road at a much higher wage) so I understand the jist of it. I agree $27 mill is low, but I expect them to come up to a much better number before 7/15. I will be interested in the last and final offer and if KC takes it.

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't claim to be a rookie contract expert, but we could have cut him after the 2015 season if we wanted to go another direction, correct? At that point he could have went anywhere he wanted? Looks to me we had 3 options at the end of 2015, cut him, sign him LT, or tag him. We tagged him and paid a premium for 2016. He was paid very well for 2016.

Furthermore, he still could have negotiated with other teams on the non-exclusive tag. Looks to me like no other team thought enough of him either to pay him $20 million + APY on a lucrative LTD AND give up 2 1st rounders. Kirk likely had options if he really disliked being here. Those options may not have been very good ones.

Also, Gruden just signed an extension, that is probably what matters more than anything. Who you are playing for. Uncertainty in the FO?? ..hell KC may have his fingers crossed that Allen is sent packing after this year. Dan ain't going nowhere. As long as the paycheck is in the bank every month I doubt KC is too concerned about who is signing it.
There is always going be uncertainty within organizations. As you said, if you suck, you're gone. That holds true for Kirk's bro Kyle Shanny as well. If he does not show significant improvements over the next 3 years...his ass is gone too.

2015 is done and gone. The team cant really look at it and say, well we already paid you this much, you should take a discount now. Would any one have the audacity to ask another QB to give them a discount because they have already made alot of money??

The second thing on this is, in 2015 they used the non exclusive tag because the Redskins were not the only people that had questions about if Kirk was a one year wonder. The reason they used the exclusive rights tag this year is because there was a pretty good chance some one would meet what it will take to sign Kirk long term and would have been willing to give up the draft picks in compensation. All of this could have been avoided had they simply made a decent offer back in March.

 

[deanpet21]

2015 is done and gone. The team cant really look at it and say, well we already paid you this much, you should take a discount now. Would any one have the audacity to ask another QB to give them a discount because they have already made alot of money??

The second thing on this is, in 2015 they used the non exclusive tag because the Redskins were not the only people that had questions about if Kirk was a one year wonder. The reason they used the exclusive rights tag this year is because there was a pretty good chance some one would meet what it will take to sign Kirk long term and would have been willing to give up the draft picks in compensation. All of this could have been avoided had they simply made a decent offer back in March.

All the ways Kirk Cousins could hit the jackpot -- and what comes next

latest article. I didnt realize they can trade him on the tag this year.

 

[Sharkinva]

All the ways Kirk Cousins could hit the jackpot -- and what comes next

latest article. I didnt realize they can trade him on the tag this year.

Thats why they gave the Exclusive rights tag. If they gave the non exclusive, the compensation would start at two first rounders, and teams would try to negotiate down from there. By giving him the Exclusive tag, teams have to agree on a compensation to the Redskins before they are even allowed to talk money with Kirk.

So there was no way the Niners could come in and give Kirk the deal he wanted, then say k now lets talk the Redskins down.

 

[deanpet21]

Thats why they gave the Exclusive rights tag. If they gave the non exclusive, the compensation would start at two first rounders, and teams would try to negotiate down from there. By giving him the Exclusive tag, teams have to agree on a compensation to the Redskins before they are even allowed to talk money with Kirk.

So there was no way the Niners could come in and give Kirk the deal he wanted, then say k now lets talk the Redskins down.

So if we get off to a bad start and KC is struggling we can still get a 1st and 3rd out of the 49ers this year?

 

[Sharkinva]

So if we get off to a bad start and KC is struggling we can still get a 1st and 3rd out of the 49ers this year?

Sure, but in reality if you are the Niners, why would you do it. If we get off to a bad start, they could simply sit back and wait and save the draft picks. If we get off to a bad start, we wont be franchising Kirk next year. And his cost isnt going to be any less if they trade for him or just outbid ever one. And for as little as some think of Cousins, why would the NIners give up a 1st rounder for a failing QB at that point??

 

[deanpet21]

Sure, but in reality if you are the Niners, why would you do it. If we get off to a bad start, they could simply sit back and wait and save the draft picks. If we get off to a bad start, we wont be franchising Kirk next year. And his cost isnt going to be any less if they trade for him or just outbid ever one. And for as little as some think of Cousins, why would the NIners give up a 1st rounder for a failing QB at that point??

The 49ers would do it so they don't have to bid with other teams in Fa in 2018.

 

[gkekoa]

I don't claim to be a rookie contract expert, but we could have cut him after the 2015 season if we wanted to go another direction, correct? At that point he could have went anywhere he wanted? Looks to me we had 3 options at the end of 2015, cut him, sign him LT, or tag him. We tagged him and paid a premium for 2016. He was paid very well for 2016.

Furthermore, he still could have negotiated with other teams on the non-exclusive tag. Looks to me like no other team thought enough of him either to pay him $20 million + APY on a lucrative LTD AND give up 2 1st rounders. Kirk likely had options if he really disliked being here. Those options may not have been very good ones.

Also, Gruden just signed an extension, that is probably what matters more than anything. Who you are playing for. Uncertainty in the FO?? ..hell KC may have his fingers crossed that Allen is sent packing after this year. Dan ain't going nowhere. As long as the paycheck is in the bank every month I doubt KC is too concerned about who is signing it.
There is always going be uncertainty within organizations. As you said, if you suck, you're gone. That holds true for Kirk's bro Kyle Shanny as well. If he does not show significant improvements over the next 3 years...his ass is gone too.

Uncertainty in the FO as to how they treat players. In your world, KC should sign a six year, 140 million dollar contract which sounds great but only have two years guaranteed with no signing bonus. The team could easily say we are done after year 2 and you have no protection.

 

[Sharkinva]

The 49ers would do it so they don't have to bid with other teams in Fa in 2018.

Stop looking from the Dean this would be cool glasses, ask yourself... would YOU give up multiple picks including a first rounder so that you didnt have to bid against other teams for a player that by all indications you would be his first choice any way?? I get it, Kiem mentioned a scenario in which the Redskins could stil ltry and get a first round pick or more for Cousins, you go all Viagra overdose mode again. But the truth is, it aint going to happen Dean. If we are struggling that badly, and its directly because of Cousins, then in that case no one is going to give up a 1st rounder, much less multiple picks for us.

Now if we start out 0-6, yet Kirk is having a solid season despite that, we would be remiss in trying to deal him and start over and it would simply point out that the real motivation in the move is trying to get one of the shiny new toys any way.

 

[deanpet21]

Stop looking from the Dean this would be cool glasses, ask yourself... would YOU give up multiple picks including a first rounder so that you didnt have to bid against other teams for a player that by all indications you would be his first choice any way?? I get it, Kiem mentioned a scenario in which the Redskins could stil ltry and get a first round pick or more for Cousins, you go all Viagra overdose mode again. But the truth is, it aint going to happen Dean. If we are struggling that badly, and its directly because of Cousins, then in that case no one is going to give up a 1st rounder, much less multiple picks for us.

Now if we start out 0-6, yet Kirk is having a solid season despite that, we would be remiss in trying to deal him and start over and it would simply point out that the real motivation in the move is trying to get one of the shiny new toys any way.

You said in previous posts that KC is going to get paid no matter how he does in 2017. So yes the 49ers would give up picks if they can get their guy. If a LTD cant be worked out getting a first next year to land a top tier Qb should be priority one.

 

[gkekoa]

You said in previous posts that KC is going to get paid no matter how he does in 2017. So yes the 49ers would give up picks if they can get their guy. If a LTD cant be worked out getting a first next year to land a top tier Qb should be priority one.

And this is your priority period.

Would you rather KC here or a first round rookie for the next five seasons?

We all know this answer.

 

[deanpet21]

And this is your priority period.

Would you rather KC here or a first round rookie for the next five seasons?

We all know this answer.

If a LTD cant get done. What other options do we have?

 

[Sharkinva]

You said in previous posts that KC is going to get paid no matter how he does in 2017. So yes the 49ers would give up picks if they can get their guy. If a LTD cant be worked out getting a first next year to land a top tier Qb should be priority one.

Correction, Kirk is going to get paid no matter how the team finishes... unless he becomes one of the worst QBs in the league over night. Again, calm down and stop getting all excited over we might be able to off Kirk for draft picks. Put yourself in their shoes, would you give up the picks knowing the Skins cant or probably wont franchise tag him again??

The only way this trade becomes possible is

1. The team is well below .500 come week eight
2. Kirk is a primary reason the team is well below .500

IF these are the case, would you trade for a failing QB??