Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[SoCalWizFan]

If they did (which is certainly possible with this FO), they would be the laughing stock of the league.

They aren't already?

 

[Ruzious]

Two things on this.

First you want to say that Kirk is subject to the rule that most players have peeked by the age of 26. But on the flip side appear to be advocating us going after a QB in next years draft because we some how have a better chance of bucking the rule that only 20-25% of first round QBs turn out as good as, much less better than Cousins is now.

Secondly, while Cousins might not have actually improved much last year, he also did not regress. So if the level of performance we can expect, is the level of over all performance we have gotten from him in the last two years... what the real issue here??

Firstly, wow... you have an amazing ability to assume I'm saying things that I didn't say. I was talking about Cousins; not anything else here, so let's keep it to what I actually said. Stop Assuming when you try to tear my comments down. I'm not going to respond anymore to those kinds of posts.

Secondly, I'm not subjecting anyone to anything. I merely pointed out facts for the average player.

Cousins stats did decline last season, but I'll accept the reason that the schedule was more difficult. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt there and not going any farther.

 

[Ruzious]

Physically peak at 26. Off the top of my head players who were better the older they got...

Michael Jordan and every great QB the history of the game has seen.

LOL, MJ and only great QB's...

That's the sample...

makes perfect sens

Physically peak at 26. Off the top of my head players who were better the older they got...

Michael Jordan and every great QB the history of the game has seen.

I'll just say you've had better posts and leave it at that.

 

[Sharkinva]

p.s. I don't agree with you about KC's potential. He's been in the league for a long time and isn't a kid. What you see is what you get at this point.

Firstly, wow... you have an amazing ability to assume I'm saying things that I didn't say. I was talking about Cousins; not anything else here, so let's keep it to what I actually said. Stop Assuming when you try to tear my comments down. I'm not going to respond anymore to those kinds of posts.

Secondly, I'm not subjecting anyone to anything. I merely pointed out facts for the average player.

Cousins stats did decline last season, but I'll accept the reason that the schedule was more difficult. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt there and not going any farther.

IM just commenting on the tone of your post. What you see is what you get implies that in your opinion Cousins has tapped out and cant or wont improve over what we see already.

And I said it appears you are advocating we move on and take one of these rookies next year. Now if that appearance is wrong, my bad.

But I stand by my comment, if what we got is a 4500 yard 25+ TD QB who is actually in the prime of his playing years.. IM OK with that. And most NFL teams who dont have a QB would probably be ok with that as well.

 

[Ruzious]

Well that's different then saying he improved and will continue to improve.

 

[Sharkinva]

Well that's different then saying he improved and will continue to improve.

He played against a tougher schedule, and much better defenses and he didnt regress. So yes actually he did improve. Maybe not to the level we all would have liked to have seen.

But I will put it this way, how easy do you think it will be for us to find a QB as good as Cousins if we let him walk. Lets not even go into the better QB quadrant just yet.

 

[Ruzious]

He played against a tougher schedule, and much better defenses and he didnt regress. So yes actually he did improve. Maybe not to the level we all would have liked to have seen.

But I will put it this way, how easy do you think it will be for us to find a QB as good as Cousins if we let him walk. Lets not even go into the better QB quadrant just yet.

Letting him walk implies that we get nothing for him. I don't want that to happen. I don't want to over-pay him, but that probably beats letting him go for nothing. Neither is a good situation. If we could get a good haul for him in a trade, that's the way I'd go, but that looks very unlikely.

Again, his stats went down last season - all the QB rating stats showed a decline. Again, I'm giving an offset for that for the relatively more difficult schedule. I am not giving him anything more than that - but I already said that in my last post.

 

[Sharkinva]

@Ruzious

Lets put this in another less volatile light to show improvement.

Last week while lifting weights, Monday- Friday you did 10 reps of 100 LBS every day.

This week, you increased the load and went up to 130 LBS, you still did ten reps.

Your rep count didnt drop, the amount you lifted increased.... did you actually improve??

Now sure, you would have loved to have done 15 reps at 130lbs to show massive improvement. But does the fact that you are still only doing ten reps mean you in fact have not improved??

 

[Sharkinva]

Letting him walk implies that we get nothing for him. I don't want that to happen. I don't want to over-pay him, but that probably beats letting him go for nothing. Neither is a good situation. If we could get a good haul for him in a trade, that's the way I'd go, but that looks very unlikely.

Again, his stats went down last season - all the QB rating stats showed a decline. Again, I'm giving an offset for that for the relatively more difficult schedule. I am not giving him anything more than that - but I already said that in my last post.

So.. lets say we get a good haul.. (2 first rounders seems to be the giddy point) What do you think the odds are, even with this good haul, we get a QB as good as him or better?? See Im not worried about the over pay, because in reality unless he completely fails and becomes the worst QB in the league, I dont think we can in fact over pay. Is going to cost, what its going to cost to keep him. And I would rather Dan spend his money to keep a good QB, than see him waste draft resources chasing the elite QB again.

 

[Ruzious]

@Ruzious

Lets put this in another less volatile light to show improvement.

Last week while lifting weights, Monday- Friday you did 10 reps of 100 LBS every day.

This week, you increased the load and went up to 130 LBS, you still did ten reps.

Your rep count didnt drop, the amount you lifted increased.... did you actually improve??

Now sure, you would have loved to have done 15 reps at 130lbs to show massive improvement. But does the fact that you are still only doing ten reps mean you in fact have not improved??

Here's one that actually mirrors the situation. And even a Cowboys fan could understand this. 9 out of 10 beats 10 out of 12.

 

[Ruzious]

So.. lets say we get a good haul.. (2 first rounders seems to be the giddy point) What do you think the odds are, even with this good haul, we get a QB as good as him or better?? See Im not worried about the over pay, because in reality unless he completely fails and becomes the worst QB in the league, I dont think we can in fact over pay. Is going to cost, what its going to cost to keep him. And I would rather Dan spend his money to keep a good QB, than see him waste draft resources chasing the elite QB again.

It's a fair question, but it's not the question I would ask. The real question is - Are you satisfied with what we are? I have no doubt that with Cousins, we can vie for a playoff spot. My opinion is that's all we can shoot for. I want to at least have a chance for a championship, so I'm willing to take the chance that we'll scout well (I know - it's a foreign concept) and find an elite QB WHILE having more cap space to fill out the rest of the roster.

 

[Sharkinva]

It's a fair question, but it's not the question I would ask. The real question is - Are you satisfied with what we are? I have no doubt that with Cousins, we can vie for a playoff spot. My opinion is that's all we can shoot for. I want to at least have a chance for a championship, so I'm willing to take the chance that we'll scout well (I know - it's a foreign concept) and find an elite QB WHILE having more cap space to fill out the rest of the roster.

And my problem with this logic is... we have tried numerous times to shortcut the finding of an elite QB. It has failed miserably. If you are not consistently making the playoffs, you have zero shot of winning a championship. And at the end of the day, I think if you go down the list of WHY we didnt make the playoffs last year, and are honest with your assessment, QB play falls 3rd or 4th on that list.

As far as scouting correctly.... Dude I almost choked on my redbull reading that. We both know that if the team moves away from Kirk, our scouting of the QB position will start and end with... whats it going to take to move up and draft Darnold.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

It's a fair question, but it's not the question I would ask. The real question is - Are you satisfied with what we are? I have no doubt that with Cousins, we can vie for a playoff spot. My opinion is that's all we can shoot for. I want to at least have a chance for a championship, so I'm willing to take the chance that we'll scout well (I know - it's a foreign concept) and find an elite QB WHILE having more cap space to fill out the rest of the roster.

I see no reason why Cousins can't win a SB in the future. Several NFL experts feel the same way. That doesn't mean that Cousins has to be as good as Brady or Rodgers. He just has to refine his game especially in terms of doing better in big games. There is no reason to think that those issues cannot be corrected & 27 or 28 is not too old to turn those type of things around - he has time.

The key is fixing the rest of the team & those steps are already in motion. A better defense and running game are key. No reason to believe that they can't make a deep playoff run in a few years if they keep the team relatively intact, add more picks & have a little luck in the injury dept.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

And my problem with this logic is... we have tried numerous times to shortcut the finding of an elite QB. It has failed miserably. If you are not consistently making the playoffs, you have zero shot of winning a championship. And at the end of the day, I think if you go down the list of WHY we didnt make the playoffs last year, and are honest with your assessment, QB play falls 3rd or 4th on that list.

As far as scouting correctly.... Dude I almost choked on my redbull reading that. We both know that if the team moves away from Kirk, our scouting of the QB position will start and end with... whats it going to take to move up and draft Darnold.

They are not getting Darnold unless they only win 1 or 2 games next season. No way in hell that they make another RG3 type trade - the fan base will at that pt say "enough" & possibly stage a coup against Snyder. My fear would be that they would possibly draft the next best QB option and likely that guy will be a complete bust. I have to laugh at some of the posters here with their grass is greener philosophy knowing the Redskins history in drafting QBs. Like him or not Cousins is the best QB that they have had in the last 20 years & that very likely could be true for the next 20 years.

 

[j_y19]

It's a fair question, but it's not the question I would ask. The real question is - Are you satisfied with what we are? I have no doubt that with Cousins, we can vie for a playoff spot. My opinion is that's all we can shoot for. I want to at least have a chance for a championship, so I'm willing to take the chance that we'll scout well (I know - it's a foreign concept) and find an elite QB WHILE having more cap space to fill out the rest of the roster.

Ruz, while I disagree with you, I respect that you are one a few that have honestly stated you opinion.

Now as to can KC QB a team to the SB. None of us really know. But what we do know is that there have been plenty of QBs to make the SB (and win) that were arguably less talented that KC (any one remember sexy rexy, for one). KC still has issues. Clearly there is concern for his propensity to show up flat in big games. But as others have stated, he is still young in terms of NFL experience. He is a hard worker and is constantly striving to improve. I have to believe that this bodes well for KC's ability to continue to improve. He has the physical tools to do it all. Now he just needs to eliminate the mental errors. But everyone has to agree that he has only become better in this dept based on where he started 3 years ago when he first got his significant playing time.

Everyone seems to be so concerned about KC's impact on the cap if we sign him to a LTD. Does everyone realize that his cap hit will only go down from $24M to something less for the first couple of years if, and when, the deal is done? And this time next year, if no LTD is done, do they realize what his cap hit will be or what t he cost of finding his replacement will be?

 

[Sharkinva]

They are not getting Darnold unless they only win 1 or 2 games next season. No way in hell that they make another RG3 type trade - the fan base will at that pt say "enough" & possibly stage a coup against Snyder. My fear would be that they would possibly draft the next best QB option and likely that guy will be a complete bust. I have to laugh at some of the posters here with their grass is greener philosophy knowing the Redskins history in drafting QBs. Like him or not Cousins is the best QB that they have had in the last 20 years & that very likely could be true for the next 20 years.

Socal..... I have to disagree a little. I think the main reason some folks are against signing Cousins long term is they want to maintain the flexibility to try and make the trade up for Darnold or who ever ends up being the top rated QB.

Add to that, Dealing Cousins for two first rounders would give the team the Ammo to do just that without mortgaging our own draft picks in the process, or so thats the logic in this move.

Lets be honest here, if we move on from Cousins, neither Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen or the fan base is going to be satisfied with drafting the 4th or 5th rated QB in next years draft. We are at a go hard or go home moment... again. Signing Kirk long term right now pretty much takes the trade up off the table. Having Kirk play on he tag should take finishing 2-14 off the table.

Kirk being on roster this year, either on the tag or a LTD probably guarantees we are not in a good position to trade up next year. Not unless we are prepared to do another RG3 trade or worse.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Socal..... I have to disagree a little. I think the main reason some folks are against signing Cousins long term is they want to maintain the flexibility to try and make the trade up for Darnold or who ever ends up being the top rated QB.

Add to that, Dealing Cousins for two first rounders would give the team the Ammo to do just that without mortgaging our own draft picks in the process, or so thats the logic in this move.

Lets be honest here, if we move on from Cousins, neither Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen or the fan base is going to be satisfied with drafting the 4th or 5th rated QB in next years draft. We are at a go hard or go home moment... again. Signing Kirk long term right now pretty much takes the trade up off the table. Having Kirk play on he tag should take finishing 2-14 off the table.

Kirk being on roster this year, either on the tag or a LTD probably guarantees we are not in a good position to trade up next year. Not unless we are prepared to do another RG3 trade or worse.

Not sure about that. First of all if this lingers into next offseason I don't think that they are getting 2 first rounders for Cousins - for a variety of reasons I think that the price will be much lower. I also think that teams may look for a huge amt of picks (more than even w/ RG3) in return knowing the Redskins history & the fact that Darnold is considered a once-in-a-lifetime QB. Now if you are talking about trading Cousins now - well - I just don't see that happening.

Of course you never really know if Darnold will be so valued next offseason. He could always get hurt or perhaps not play as well - it has happened with others. I agree with your last paragraph & hope that this team realizes that having a sure thing is better than working off a plan of hope. We shall see.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not sure about that. First of all if this lingers into next offseason I don't think that they are getting 2 first rounders for Cousins - for a variety of reasons I think that the price will be much lower. I also think that teams may look for a huge amt of picks (more than even w/ RG3) in return knowing the Redskins history & the fact that Darnold is considered a once-in-a-lifetime QB. Now if you are talking about trading Cousins now - well - I just don't see that happening.

Of course you never really know if Darnold will be so valued next offseason. He could always get hurt or perhaps not play as well - it has happened with others. I agree with your last paragraph & hope that this team realizes that having a sure thing is better than working off a plan of hope. We shall see.

I agree two firsts for Cousins next off season is off the table unless this team does the unthinkable... win a Lombardi. And if that happens, we wont trade him any way.

I think some folks are still holding out hope we deal him NOW. That would put us in position for next April and also likely mean we finish some where in the 6-10 or worse range, making the trade up next year less painful. Some folks seem more than willing to write off the 2017 season before it has even begun, in the quest for the elite prospect come next April.

 

[deanpet21]

I agree two firsts for Cousins next off season is off the table unless this team does the unthinkable... win a Lombardi. And if that happens, we wont trade him any way.

I think some folks are still holding out hope we deal him NOW. That would put us in position for next April and also likely mean we finish some where in the 6-10 or worse range, making the trade up next year less painful. Some folks seem more than willing to write off the 2017 season before it has even begun, in the quest for the elite prospect come next April.

rotoworld.com just had 5 QB's going in the first round in the 2018 draft. This RG3 trade up you have been pushing will not happen.

 

[Sharkinva]

rotoworld.com just had 5 QB's going in the first round in the 2018 draft. This RG3 trade up you have been pushing will not happen.

Dean... if we take #5.. are you going to be happy?? More to the point... is Dan Snyder going to be happy taking the 5th highest rated QB??

Also.. Rotoworld had Watson as a lock for the #1 overall pick in 2017 at this time last year.

And lastly, just because 5 QBs are slated to go in the first round... SHOULD 5 QBs go in the first round?? Desperation at the position will push at least 3 guys who should NOT be first round picks into the first round. For fuck sake Patrick Ramsey was a first round pick. As was Jason Campbell, Johnny Numb Nutz and numerous other guys who should NOT have been first round picks at the QB position.

If nothing else, you need to admit... if we move away from Kirk, Dan and Bruce will be willing to sell the farm again to try and get an elite prospect... and some of the fan base will be right on board with it.