Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[Sleepy T]

you know this greed thing works both ways . brock set the market at 17 mil when we could have had him for 16 .
but the FO wanted to be scrooge and felt they couldnt afford 16 mil when the organization is worth a billion.

Brock was completely overpaid, you and everyone knows it. Most of the league knows it. There are a handful of bad teams that make that deal. Houston got took the bank and they deserved it. Everybody, other than a few hindsight fans on this board, knew that tagging KC was the best option we had given his unproven track record.

you all want to squawk about the luck deal being market value however that isnt it now it will be somewhere between the luck deal and the highest paid player in the game . you can cry about not wanting to hear about market value all you damn want but that is the world the NFL is in

Yeah. The Luck deal is market value and more than fair for KC. Its funny, you guys want to bitch and moan about being fair and giving KC the big $$ deal but what you guys are failing to realize (or admit) is that most QBs who have record of 19-21-1 with 1 loss in 1 playoff appearance don't get that deal.

you bitch about loyalty to the team but what about loyalty to him from the team ? you lowball him with insulting offers for 2 years and now you want some kind of freaking break ?

They paid him $20 freakin million dollars last year when they could have let his ass walk...doesn't that indicate some sort of commitment and loyalty? True, their offers have been lowball ones, but they wanted to see more, still do perhaps? Dude is getting payed handsomely. Hell for all we know this tagging is all part of his grand plan.

none of you have a viable alternative to replacing him that keeps this train moving forward so now do you condemn a team on the rise to another setback ? you can say all the stupid shit you want to and in the end he may walk , but if he does , dont start whining to me about losing again

No, there is no long term fix if KC walks, But, if we make him a nice deal and he walks, its not on the FO. I don't give a shit about Allen and the past lowball offers. If the dude walks away from us after a good offer, I will hope he has a miserable career.

 

[Sleepy T]

Why is it bullshit to want your freedom but not bad mouth your previous employer? Some would call that professionalism.

C'mon Gk. I don't disagree with your statement, but my point is if he doesn't want to be here, then he needs to sit down at the table, and ask for a trade. Simple as that. Not doing so would be a pussy bitch move.

But he probably doesn't want to do that. The Golden Boy wants to cash in the jackpot. If he gets $44 mill on the tags and gets another $50-$70 mill guaranteed on his next contract that would be well over a hundred mill for 4-5 years of work.

 

[gkekoa]

Brock was completely overpaid, you and everyone knows it. Most of the league knows it. There are a handful of bad teams that make that deal. Houston got took the bank and they deserved it. Everybody, other than a few hindsight fans on this board, knew that tagging KC was the best option we had given his unproven track record.



Yeah. The Luck deal is market value and more than fair for KC. Its funny, you guys want to bitch and moan about being fair and giving KC the big $$ deal but what you guys are failing to realize (or admit) is that most QBs who have record of 19-21-1 with 1 loss in 1 playoff appearance don't get that deal.



They paid him $20 freakin million dollars last year when they could have let his ass walk...doesn't that indicate some sort of commitment and loyalty? True, their offers have been lowball ones, but they wanted to see more, still do perhaps? Dude is getting payed handsomely. Hell for all we know this tagging is all part of his grand plan.


No, there is no long term fix if KC walks, But, if we make him a nice deal and he walks, its not on the FO. I don't give a shit about Allen and the past lowball offers. If the dude walks away from us after a good offer, I will hope he has a miserable career.

Brock wasn't completely overpaid. He didn't fit the system and the play calling was atrocious. Tagging KC was never the best option. KC proved he was capable of playing at a high level in this offense. Two years guaranteed and a little SB would have been enough after 2015.

The Luck deal was market last season and many in the NFL believe he should have gone for more. Not many in the NFL have back to back winning seasons with a defense as poor as ours.

If they let him walk last season instead of paying him 20 mil, he would have likely got 22 or more on the open market. They didn't do him a favor by tagging him.

If he walks away from a good offer, it is absolutely on the FO. They created an environment KC did not want to work in. It sure as hell isnt on the coaching staff.

 

[gkekoa]

C'mon Gk. I don't disagree with your statement, but my point is if he doesn't want to be here, then he needs to sit down at the table, and ask for a trade. Simple as that. Not doing so would be a pussy bitch move.

But he probably doesn't want to do that. The Golden Boy wants to cash in the jackpot. If he gets $44 mill on the tags and gets another $50-$70 mill guaranteed on his next contract that would be well over a hundred mill for 4-5 years of work.

IF he didn't want to be here, I am sure he would have asked for the trade.

Again, there was an easy cure for the 43 million he will have made...make a strong offer.

 

[skinsdad62]

Brock was completely overpaid, you and everyone knows it. Most of the league knows it. There are a handful of bad teams that make that deal. Houston got took the bank and they deserved it. Everybody, other than a few hindsight fans on this board, knew that tagging KC was the best option we had given his unproven track record.



Yeah. The Luck deal is market value and more than fair for KC. Its funny, you guys want to bitch and moan about being fair and giving KC the big $$ deal but what you guys are failing to realize (or admit) is that most QBs who have record of 19-21-1 with 1 loss in 1 playoff appearance don't get that deal.



They paid him $20 freakin million dollars last year when they could have let his ass walk...doesn't that indicate some sort of commitment and loyalty? True, their offers have been lowball ones, but they wanted to see more, still do perhaps? Dude is getting payed handsomely. Hell for all we know this tagging is all part of his grand plan.


No, there is no long term fix if KC walks, But, if we make him a nice deal and he walks, its not on the FO. I don't give a shit about Allen and the past lowball offers. If the dude walks away from us after a good offer, I will hope he has a miserable career.

doesnt matter what that he was overpaid that is what established the market for KC and it would have been taken care of if the FO didnt kill it . 20 mill on the tag says loyalty ? hell no it says we dont have another option .

here is simple economics , the market is determined by how much a team is willing to pay . the LUCK deal is obsolete , so the market is higher then that to the point of being the highest paid player now . you want to apply the skill level of a player . but its supply and demand and there is limited supply and much demand

you dont have a single option you can name that the team can go and keep on progressing . this is self inflicted by our FO the last offer reported is 20 mil, per season 16 mil guaranteed . the 20 mil means nothing if the guarantee is only 16 mil . the guaranteed money is what is important not the APY . it will take 60-80 mil in guarantees to keep him

 

[skinsdad62]

Need to Know: The five most impressive players of the Redskins’ offseason

maybe you should look at this before declaring things about KC and a mini-camp practice

 

[Sharkinva]

cherry pick? I gave you a lot of examples. To say what? I told you im ok with have KC here on the Luck deal. what more do you want?

Dean any time you start going through a game by game and pull out only the bad games, or in some instances simply the bad plays, and yet totally ignore or discount the good games and good plays a player has made. That sir is cherry picking. In most cases its done to try and further a selective point of view. And usually that selective point of view is because one has another agenda.

Most of us that want Kirk resigned have stated a few things.

1. We realize he isnt elite.
2. We dont care that he is in a position to be the highest paid QB because he wont be for long.
3. Saying he doesnt DESERVE to get paid as much as some of the elites is silly, because the market for starting QBs has been dictated by supply and demand

4. Give us a better option other than well MAYBE we can find a better QB in next years draft, and most if not all of us would be fine with moving on from Cousins. But if the options presented are, pay Cousins or go fish... I and some others would rather we pay Cousins and continue to build the team.

 

[gkekoa]

Nuh uh...KC sucks balls and threw an INT in practice.

 

[skinsdad62]

Washington Has No One but Itself to Blame for Kirk Cousins Contract Drama
Mike TanierJune 15, 2017

Nick Wass/Associated Press
The deadline to sign Kirk Cousins is like the ticking clock in a cheesy television thriller. Before the cut to commercial, the heroes have just 10 seconds to cut the wire and diffuse the warhead. Then, after a word from the sponsors, there are suddenly 30 seconds left.

The Redskins have until July 15 to sign Cousins. Otherwise, he will play out the 2017 season under the franchise tag for the second consecutive year. Most franchises would be working around the clock to avoid both absorbing a $24 million salary-cap hit and sending more mixed messages to the starting quarterback they keep inexplicably friend-zoning. But the Redskins are too busy rearranging the chairs in their front office.

According to multiple insider reports, the two sides might agree to a deal in the next month, or they might not. If not, the team could just slap Cousins with the franchise tag for a third consecutive year in 2018, then continue negotiations next offseason.

No biggie, right? Except that tagging a player for three consecutive years is unprecedented, and doing so would cost the team almost $35 million. The franchise tag is designed to be too expensive to keep reusing as a glorified layaway plan.

Adam Schefter's column last week painted a rosy picture of the Cousins talks, using words like "encouraging," "improved" and "positive outlook" in the first two paragraphs, even though Schefter acknowledged at the start that all of the optimism may not result in a long-term deal.

It then points out that Cousins' agent and Washington brass have met twice in the last two months, the team is totally OK with tying a $35 million anchor to its 2018 salary cap, and that owner Daniel Snyder is now personally involved in the negotiations.

That's right, folks: Snyder is on the case, and that's supposed to be a good thing.

The recent history of the Redskins can be summarized as "Daniel Snyder likes a player more than his football people do, and hilarity ensues." From the Albert Haynesworth drama through the end of the Joe Gibbs era and into the Donovan McNabb morality play, Snyder's intervention has resulted in organizational friction, roster confusion and gobs of wasted money. Heck, Cousins is here in the first place because Snyder and the Shanahan family turned Robert Griffin III's career into Shakespeare in the Park.

If a meddlesome owner's involvement and a "maybe next year" timeline counts as "encouraging" news on the Cousins front, what would "discouraging" news look like? Oh, right: McNabb, Griffin, etc.

Snyder is reportedly assuring Cousins that the team truly appreciates him and wants to get a long-term deal done. His team's pay-as-you-go policy and foot-dragging negotiations suggest otherwise. Someone in Ashburn, Virginia, is skeptical about Cousins' long-range value as a franchise quarterback. Whoever that is may think he is keeping the team's long-term options open when in reality he's painting the organization into a corner.


Washington owner Daniel Snyder says he wants to keep Kirk Cousins but has yet to sign him to a long-term deal.Matt Dunham/Associated Press/Associated Press
Indecision has made Cousins the expensive commitment the team appears to be trying to avoid. Back-to-back franchise tags will have cost the team nearly $44 million in guaranteed money over the last two years if a deal is not done by the deadline. That figure balloons to nearly $80 million if the Redskins are serious about recycling the salary cap for a third year.

The Redskins are likely to end up paying more guaranteed money for Cousins than they would have paid if they signed him to a long-term deal last year. They just aren't getting any of the benefits of a massive deal: short-term cap relief to help build a contender, insurance if Cousins actually does what the team hopes he does (if he leads the team to a Super Bowl without a long-term deal, his next contract will rewrite economics textbooks) and so on.

Meanwhile, the team has not bothered to draft or develop a Plan B, unless you believe Nate Sudfeld is secretly the next Tom Brady. The team that doesn't want to commit has inadvertently committed with both feet.

So the Redskins are the dude-bro who keeps putting off the wedding, Cousins is Pam from the early seasons of The Office, and Snyder is the dopey dad who blunders into his son's relationship by saying things like "you know he really loves you." Kyle Shanahan is Jim Halpert. These tales never end well for the indecisive suitor.

You may be wondering where the Redskins general manager is during all of this. He's nonexistent! The Redskins proudly announced Tuesday they were replacing Scot McCloughan, fired amid a noxious cloud of innuendo between the combine and the draft, with nobody.

Team president and former general manager Bruce Allen is now team president and de facto general manager. Doug Williams was promoted to vice president of player personnel, but Williams was not offered the general manager title and did not seek it, probably realizing after McCloughan's dismissal what happens to those who fly too close to the Snyder-Allen power structure. Chief contract negotiator Eric Schaffer also earned a titular promotion to vice president of football operations.

When asked who had final say in personnel matters Tuesday, Williams said that such power is "overrated." That's front-office lingo for not me, that's for darn sure. Allen said he "sure hopes" the team signs Cousins. Schaffer assured that "we only want him to be here."

If everyone (including Snyder) is on board, a new contract should be a slam dunk. The same could have been said last year. Not everyone is as on board as they sound. That's how all Redskins sagas begin.

Cousins sounded like he knew the drill Wednesday when asked how Schaffer's promotion might impact contract negotiations. "These are all good promotions," he said. "Those are smart hires ... But make no mistake, there are titles ahead of him. Those people make decisions too."

Butter usually doesn't melt in Cousins' mouth, so hearing even the tinge of frustration in his voice was noteworthy. Cousins, who has his first child on the way, admitted to feeling a little burnt out in the offseason and that his contract was a part of that. He said his agent shoulders much of the burden.

"Things he's told me I haven't always liked to hear," Cousins said. "They haven't always been easy to act on. But he's always been right."

Cousins' remarks don't sound all that encouraging weeks before a deadline that his employer has already blown through once.


The new power structure in Washington.Nick Wass/Associated Press
Perhaps the Redskins are waiting for Derek Carr to set the market with his new contract, just as they may have been waiting for Andrew Luck to set the market last year. At this rate, they could wait for Dak Prescott to set the market in three years, except the team is already straining the limits of franchise-tagging, and waiting only favors Cousins because quarterback contracts never get cheaper.

The only way Cousins' asking price dips below "highest paid quarterback on the planet" after a third tagging is if he suffers a catastrophic injury or an unprecedented decline. By procrastinating, the Redskins are just betting against themselves.

The Cousins contract situation is this offseason's designated contract drama. Every year, a quarterback's contract negotiations get thorny and drag into the summer, giving us something to talk and write about when news is slow in the early summer. Russell Wilson provided the 2015 drama. Andrew Luck kept us entertained last summer. Cousins was renewed for a rare second season.

These dramas have a predictable rhythm to them: vague, soothing statements from team execs and agents; simmering tension beneath the surface; provocative insider scuttlebutt; a little Fourth of July fanfic from desperate columnists. (Let's say the Redskins tag Cousins for a third straight year but the 49ers offer all of their draft picks until 2020 for him in a trade. What would that mean for Jimmy Garoppolo?)

Then, finally, mid-July consummation, beaucoup bucks for the quarterback and plenty of "Is he worth the money?" debate until training camp starts.

Is Cousins worth the money? The answer doesn't lie in statistical analysis or film breakdowns of his strengths and weaknesses. Quarterbacks who can throw for over 4,000 yards per year, stay healthy, lead the locker room, represent the organization and reach the playoffs are in finite supply. The going rate for them is about $20 million per year and rising. All general managers realize this and set their budgets accordingly.

The Redskins don't have a general manager. They do have a reputation for turning everything into a soap opera, and right now their quarterback sounds a little frustrated and their front office a little confused.

Maybe they will stick the landing on this offseason finale and sign Cousins to a happily-ever-after contract before July 15. If they try to sustain the suspense until season three, the whole situation is going to blow up in their face.

sounds like i am not the only one who feels the FO is blowing it

 

[gkekoa]

C'mon Gk. I don't disagree with your statement, but my point is if he doesn't want to be here, then he needs to sit down at the table, and ask for a trade. Simple as that. Not doing so would be a pussy bitch move.

But he probably doesn't want to do that. The Golden Boy wants to cash in the jackpot. If he gets $44 mill on the tags and gets another $50-$70 mill guaranteed on his next contract that would be well over a hundred mill for 4-5 years of work.

Who said he wants a trade?

Who said he hasn't asked for one?

 

[gkekoa]

See. I didn't like the article Dad because of one narrative people who think KC should sign cheap. He said the going rate was about 20 million. It is closer to 25, if not more.

But yes, it is the organization's fault, particularly Bruce Allen.

Oh yeah, did I read the organization said it was comfortable with a 35 million dollar cap hit next season? That is hilarious and nobody believes that.

 

[Sleepy T]

Who said he wants a trade?

Who said he hasn't asked for one?

Not saying he does in fact want to be traded, to get out of Washington, but it is certainly a possibility that he may not want to say publicly. I doubt he asked for a trade because he might not have too much of a say so in who he ends up with. Why would he ask for one when he could just play this year out at $24 million and pick who he wants to go to in FA '18?

 

[Sharkinva]

Not saying he does in fact want to be traded, to get out of Washington, but it is certainly a possibility that he may not want to say publicly. I doubt he asked for a trade because he might not have too much of a say so in who he ends up with. Why would he ask for one when he could just play this year out at $24 million and pick who he wants to go to in FA '18?

Thing is, if he really wanted out, he would have been better off not signing the tag. And if the Redskins really thought they might be better off just taking a QB in 2018, then the exclusive tag made zero sense.

We get it, alot of people think Cousins isnt worth $24M a year. But for all the hmmm haaa we are hearing on this....


Give me a better option. Not a maybe, not a what if.... Give me a solid, we should not sign Cousins long term because I think we should do this...

Add to that what the cost in draft picks, cap space and roster years will be.

Because what Im seeing is alot of, we should not give Cousins this kind of contract because what if he fails, or what if we have a chance to draft one of these uber studs next year. And a total disregard for what if he plays on the tag, does well enough that we cant trade up for one of these uber studs, and yet he is too expensive for us to keep either.

 

[gkekoa]

Not saying he does in fact want to be traded, to get out of Washington, but it is certainly a possibility that he may not want to say publicly. I doubt he asked for a trade because he might not have too much of a say so in who he ends up with. Why would he ask for one when he could just play this year out at $24 million and pick who he wants to go to in FA '18?

Oh...so you think he shouldn't play by the terms of the CBA?

I wouldn't ask for a trade either. It hurts himself.

 

[Sharkinva]

@VTSparks

So Im going to ask it like this.

IF Kirk plays on the tag, what do you hope the outcome to be??

1. How well does the team finish
2. Based on your answer of #1, what are you really hoping the team does at the QB position from that point??

And as your math teacher would say, please show your work.

 

[deanpet21]

@VTSparks

So Im going to ask it like this.

IF Kirk plays on the tag, what do you hope the outcome to be??

1. How well does the team finish
2. Based on your answer of #1, what are you really hoping the team does at the QB position from that point??

And as your math teacher would say, please show your work.

Of course its all about how the team finishes. It depends on the type of year KC has. If he turns down the Luck deal and then has a bad year then we don't know what will happen in 2018. IF he bets on himself again and has a good year then he has the NFL by the balls. You already admitted that you don't think a LTD will be done by 7/15.

So the questions right now are will the Skins offer KC the Luck deal or even more?
Will the Skins even offer a deal?
Will Kc turn down a fair offer from the Skins?

IMO his agent is telling him to don't sign a LTD unless is the highest contract in league history. Anything less just play on the tag. Now this is where Danny boy steps in. Does he give him the highest paid deal ever? Does he give him the Luck contract? Or does he just do nothing and let him play on the tag?

 

[Sharkinva]

Of course its all about how the team finishes. It depends on the type of year KC has. If he turns down the Luck deal and then has a bad year then we don't know what will happen in 2018. IF he bets on himself again and has a good year then he has the NFL by the balls. You already admitted that you don't think a LTD will be done by 7/15.

So the questions right now are will the Skins offer KC the Luck deal or even more?
Will the Skins even offer a deal?
Will Kc turn down a fair offer from the Skins?

IMO his agent is telling him to don't sign a LTD unless is the highest contract in league history. Anything less just play on the tag. Now this is where Danny boy steps in. Does he give him the highest paid deal ever? Does he give him the Luck contract? Or does he just do nothing and let him play on the tag?

Dean, quit spinning and answer the question.

Assuming he plays on the tag, what is the outcome you hope to get from it.

 

[deanpet21]

Dean, quit spinning and answer the question.

Assuming he plays on the tag, what is the outcome you hope to get from it.

I already answered it. Its about the team winning. Plus if he does play on the tag you have to mention possible trade offers from 49ers,Jets,Browns, and many other teams.

 

[Sharkinva]

I already answered it. Its about the team winning. Plus if he does play on the tag you have to mention possible trade offers from 49ers,Jets,Browns, and many other teams.

How can I make this any easier a question...

If Kirk plays on the tag... what are you hoping the eventual outcome will be. Simple question.

Are you hoping he does well and gets signed to a $30M a year deal, Are you hoping he fails and we get to draft one of these rookies.

I will go first.

If Kirk plays on the tag, I hope the team does well. What i expect to happen in that case is, we either pay him $30M a year with $60+ M guaranteed, or we let him walk and trade a butt load of picks to try and get the next uber stud.

Your turn, what are you hoping happens, and what do you expect to see??

Is that simple enough for you??

 

[skinsdad62]

I already answered it. Its about the team winning. Plus if he does play on the tag you have to mention possible trade offers from 49ers,Jets,Browns, and many other teams.

grab your sacks and answer the damn question people

what do you hope to gain by waiting ?