Rebuilding The Defense = Fallacy

[JDM]

I'm telling you that meaningless name calling is not accepted here. It is not acceptable from him either. It's not hard to be civil.

 

[rehone]

Please stay away from personal attacks.

Where is the personal attack? Please show me. Calling Krafty aka TKO a loser is a statement of fact.

 

[JDM]

I'm not arguing with you. Just be civil.

 

[briz almighty]

lets look at it visually.

DE Chandler Jones DT Vince Wilfork / Armond Armstead
DT Tommy Kelly
DE Rob Ninkovich
OLB Jerod Mayo
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Donta Hightower


CB1 Aqib Talib
CB2 Alfonzo Dennard
FS Devin McCorty
SS Steve Gregory


after 1st quarter or so of the season:


DE Chandler Jones
DT
DT
DE Rob Ninkovich
OLB Jerod Mayo
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Donta Hightower


CB1 Aqib Talib
CB2 Alfonzo Dennard
FS Devin McCorty
SS Steve Gregory



by midseason:


DE Chandler Jones
DT
DT
DE Rob Ninkovich
OLB
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Donta Hightower


CB1
CB2 Alfonzo Dennard
FS Devin McCorty
SS Steve Gregory



third part of the season:


DE Chandler Jones
DT
DT
DE Rob Ninkovich
OLB
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Donta Hightower


CB1 Aqib Talib
CB2
FS Devin McCorty
SS



the only defense that is good is the one that started the season. what the stats say right now are meaningless, look what happened to the defense injury wise. this defense was set up to be elite this year and it was to start. i would put the pats starting defense to begin the year against any team in the league and feel comfortable. its stupid to say the defense sucks, no kidding half of it is out for most of the season!


dennard coming back will help, im comfortable with him and talib on the outside, i think the defense is good enough to win a sb, we still need the offense to do what they are capable, the d for the playoffs are just good enough to get it done. if we had the defense we had to start the season there would be zero chance we dont win the sb.

 

[TKO]

Oh please spare me that crap. That jerk has personally attacked me every time I have commented on this pathetic site and you know it. It is why I stay away and will stay away. You allow vulgar titles and krafty who is TKO can call anyone anything he wants and has to me when I once commented here.

LOL! Rehone being castigated like a child...priceless. She's entitled to her opinion but it lacks weight due to the fact she's a biased homer that's pathologically incapable of objectivity. That's not an insult it's just fact.

 

[TKO]

lets look at it visually.

DE Chandler Jones DT Vince Wilfork / Armond Armstead
DT Tommy Kelly
DE Rob Ninkovich
OLB Jerod Mayo
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Donta Hightower


CB1 Aqib Talib
CB2 Alfonzo Dennard
FS Devin McCorty
SS Steve Gregory


after 1st quarter or so of the season:


DE Chandler Jones
DT
DT
DE Rob Ninkovich
OLB Jerod Mayo
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Donta Hightower


CB1 Aqib Talib
CB2 Alfonzo Dennard
FS Devin McCorty
SS Steve Gregory



by midseason:


DE Chandler Jones
DT
DT
DE Rob Ninkovich
OLB
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Donta Hightower


CB1
CB2 Alfonzo Dennard
FS Devin McCorty
SS Steve Gregory



third part of the season:


DE Chandler Jones
DT
DT
DE Rob Ninkovich
OLB
MLB Brandon Spikes
OLB Donta Hightower


CB1 Aqib Talib
CB2
FS Devin McCorty
SS



the only defense that is good is the one that started the season. what the stats say right now are meaningless, look what happened to the defense injury wise. this defense was set up to be elite this year and it was to start. i would put the pats starting defense to begin the year against any team in the league and feel comfortable. its stupid to say the defense sucks, no kidding half of it is out for most of the season!


dennard coming back will help, im comfortable with him and talib on the outside, i think the defense is good enough to win a sb, we still need the offense to do what they are capable, the d for the playoffs are just good enough to get it done. if we had the defense we had to start the season there would be zero chance we dont win the sb.

The Pats opening D is still not even close to the defense assembled by Carroll and I think you know that due to FF The only players I think are good enough to build around in that opening group are Jones, Wilfork, Kelly, Mayo Talib and Dennard. The rest are average players but Wilfork and Kelly will both be 33 next year so they aren't a long term answer. Five years is long enough to assemble a better unit than that IMO but I think next year Talib will be gone so they'll have to replace him too.

 

[JDM]

LOL! Rehone being castigated like a child...priceless. She's entitled to her opinion but it lacks weight due to the fact she's a biased homer that's pathologically incapable of objectivity. That's not an insult it's just fact.

You too. We disagree plenty but keep it relatively civil. Why can't you do that here?

 

[JDM]

The Pats opening D is still not even close to the defense assembled by Carroll and I think you know that due to FF The only players I think are good enough to build around in that opening group are Jones, Wilfork, Kelly, Mayo Talib and Dennard. The rest are average players but Wilfork and Kelly will both be 33 next year so they aren't a long term answer. Five years is long enough to assemble a better unit than that IMO but I think next year Talib will be gone so they'll have to replace him too.

The Seahawks strength is the secondary. Ours is our linebackers. With lower picks every year and better additions on the offensive side of the ball as well, our defense healthy compare relatively favorably to theirs.

 

[TKO]

You too. We disagree plenty but keep it relatively civil. Why can't you do that here?

I think I keep it civil, you just lose too many arguments and your objectivity with it.

 

[TKO]

The Seahawks strength is the secondary. Ours is our linebackers. With lower picks every year and better additions on the offensive side of the ball as well, our defense healthy compare relatively favorably to theirs.

IMO...The Seahawks have a great front too and I think Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright are both better than Mayo who I'd say is the Pats best LB.

 

[JDM]

IMO...The Seahawks have a great front too and I think Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright are both better than Mayo who I'd say is the Pats best LB.

Mayo is elite. Willis is better but no one else is.

 

[JDM]

I think I keep it civil, you just lose too many arguments and your objectivity with it.

Me and you do.

You and rehone right now are not. I am asking you both to tone it down just slightly instead of "you're a loser" and "you're a child" when posts are about football. Calling someone biased or a homer is appropriate in a lot of cases. The shit that can ruin a nice place is when people get personal. I see no reason for it.

 

[briz almighty]

The Pats opening D is still not even close to the defense assembled by Carroll and I think you know that due to FF The only players I think are good enough to build around in that opening group are Jones, Wilfork, Kelly, Mayo Talib and Dennard. The rest are average players but Wilfork and Kelly will both be 33 next year so they aren't a long term answer. Five years is long enough to assemble a better unit than that IMO but I think next year Talib will be gone so they'll have to replace him too.

they are close talent wise, we do still need a few more pieces another de across jones and a strong safety and a dt if armsead never plays. the difference is they play super aggressive, they blitz, and they are let loose, almost like our old d of the early 2000's. our defense just plays more safe and technical, less blitzing, they arent turned loose. i still dont know if its bb's call or our dc is just a joke. the d wont take the final step until we get an aggressive stud dc. we could have the starting probowl roster on defense but unless you play aggressive it wont really matter. they need to attack, sorta like our offense does, seattles d does. our defense doesnt and its incredible fustrating cuz they finally got some good talent. it feels like bb wont go outside and hire anymore coaches for some reason, like he wants all the control or something.

 

[Southieinnc]

Vereen was a better player last year.

I takes time to be fully integrated into our offense. This is why woodhead had more touches, and the only reason. Woodhead is not a good player.

Just semantics. You cannot be better until you "are fully integrated into" the offense. I stand by what I said, Vereen was a year away from being better than Woodhead.

Woodhead is a good player, not prototypical but a good player nonetheless. His "advantage" is being different. His disadvantage is being less effective the more you use him, the more the defense hones in on him. He was also too small and part of the munchkin gang that got man-handled by Baltimore.

Vereen will continue to improve and will NOT be less effective later in the game, because you have called his number more.

Woodhead and Vereen are both versatile backs. Vereen can be effective even if he gets called on more.

 

[TKO]

they are close talent wise, we do still need a few more pieces another de across jones and a strong safety and a dt if armsead never plays. the difference is they play super aggressive, they blitz, and they are let loose, almost like our old d of the early 2000's. our defense just plays more safe and technical, less blitzing, they arent turned loose. i still dont know if its bb's call or our dc is just a joke. the d wont take the final step until we get an aggressive stud dc. we could have the starting probowl roster on defense but unless you play aggressive it wont really matter. they need to attack, sorta like our offense does, seattles d does. our defense doesnt and its incredible fustrating cuz they finally got some good talent. it feels like bb wont go outside and hire anymore coaches for some reason, like he wants all the control or something.

I hear ya' briz but in all honesty, I think the difference in the two defenses is that the Seahawks are more athletic and they can run.

 

[TKO]

Me and you do.

You and rehone right now are not. I am asking you both to tone it down just slightly instead of "you're a loser" and "you're a child" when posts are about football. Calling someone biased or a homer is appropriate in a lot of cases. The shit that can ruin a nice place is when people get personal. I see no reason for it.

I didn't say she was a child, I said you were castigating her like she was one. Whatever, the fact is, she completely flies off the handle whenever I criticize Belichick and I happen to think I'm being objective when I say he's made plenty of mistakes and deserves criticism. I've also said I think he's one of the best with Xs and Os but IMO...his record is less than stellar rebuilding the Pats defense. Let's not forget he's made some huge mistakes... he cost the Pats a 1st round pick because he felt he was above a league memo and he cost them a win this year against the Jets because he didn't know the rules. Ever hear...DO YOUR JOB!? His job is to know the rules and he failed against their most hated rival. It's not opinion, it's fact, but to some homers it's sacrilege to point it out. That mistake might be the difference between home field or playing at Mile High this year in the playoffs and that's a big deal if you ask me. He's no genius and I refuse to whitewash his record of all the blemishes so I call 'em like I see 'em. Anyone is free to disagree.

 

[JDM]

I didn't say she was a child, I said you were castigating her like she was one. Whatever, the fact is, she completely flies off the handle whenever I criticize Belichick and I happen to think I'm being objective when I say he's made plenty of mistakes and deserves criticism. I've also said I think he's one of the best with Xs and Os but IMO...his record is less than stellar rebuilding the Pats defense. Let's not forget he's made some huge mistakes... he cost the Pats a 1st round pick because he felt he was above a league memo and he cost them a win this year against the Jets because he didn't know the rules. Ever hear...DO YOUR JOB!? His job is to know the rules and he failed against their most hated rival. It's not opinion, it's fact, but to some homers it's sacrilege to point it out. That mistake might be the difference between home field or playing at Mile High this year in the playoffs and that's a big deal if you ask me. He's no genius and I refuse to whitewash his record of all the blemishes so I call 'em like I see 'em. Anyone is free to disagree.

I'm just trying to cut that line before it becomes an issue. Not trying to call anyone out beyond that that's not productive.

The field goal was bad but he cited multiple examples where that has not been called. Calling it for the first time to end a game is an issue with me. I agree you should know, but when you are heavily involved in the offense and defensive gameplan to develop those players and cover a lot of injuries, missing a special team thing that has never been called before is reasonable. Yes, it cost us a game. But this team with the injuries it has had is in great shape. We have the head to head with Denver and are 9-3 and have the division all but locked up. We will be in the playoffs, we will continue to have players improve down the stretch, with a lot of young guys getting acclimated to bigger roles. We are in great shape for a good run and with Brady at QB that's exactly where you want to be. You don't want to have already played your best football at this point in the season. We are exactly where we need to be.

 

[TKO]

I'm just trying to cut that line before it becomes an issue. Not trying to call anyone out beyond that that's not productive.

The field goal was bad but he cited multiple examples where that has not been called. Calling it for the first time to end a game is an issue with me. I agree you should know, but when you are heavily involved in the offense and defensive gameplan to develop those players and cover a lot of injuries, missing a special team thing that has never been called before is reasonable. Yes, it cost us a game. But this team with the injuries it has had is in great shape. We have the head to head with Denver and are 9-3 and have the division all but locked up. We will be in the playoffs, we will continue to have players improve down the stretch, with a lot of young guys getting acclimated to bigger roles. We are in great shape for a good run and with Brady at QB that's exactly where you want to be. You don't want to have already played your best football at this point in the season. We are exactly where we need to be.

I agree, playing better down the stretch is a hallmark of BB's teams and the road to the SB will be easier for the AFC than for the NFC so I'm not counting them out. It would be even easier playing in Foxboro though. That being said, if they make it to the big dance, playing in a cold weather city could make it a toss up with any team they'd face because Brady is great in that stuff; but if they played Seattle or the 49ers in a dome or warm weather venue I'd have to give them both a clear edge.

As far as building the defense goes, I liked the Collins pick because I think they need to add more of those types of athletes. IMO...they need to find a couple of stout DTs that can rush next year...maybe Armstead is one of them but that remains to be seen. I'm not saying it's hopeless, just that it should have been a more finished product by now.

 

[JDM]

They are in great shape to win out. If they do one Denver slip up is home field. I don't think Denver can keep up the steam long enough to win out then make it to the Super Bowl. They'll drop one more.

 

[JDM]

I agree, playing better down the stretch is a hallmark of BB's teams and the road to the SB will be easier for the AFC than for the NFC so I'm not counting them out. It would be even easier playing in Foxboro though. That being said, if they make it to the big dance, playing in a cold weather city could make it a toss up with any team they'd face because Brady is great in that stuff; but if they played Seattle or the 49ers in a dome or warm weather venue I'd have to give them both a clear edge.

As far as building the defense goes, I liked the Collins pick because I think they need to add more of those types of athletes. IMO...they need to find a couple of stout DTs that can rush next year...maybe Armstead is one of them but that remains to be seen. I'm not saying it's hopeless, just that it should have been a more finished product by now.

It's not as easy to rebuild staying a winner as it is with a bad team and high draft picks, especially when both sides have needed entirely rebuilt and he kept them good enough that we could have won a Super Bowl if they got a little hot every single year. The difference in value just in the first pick between 14 and 24 is massive.