Rebuilding The Defense = Fallacy

[Drawmeomg]

Wilfork and Kelly will both turn 33 next year and there's no way of knowing how well Wilfork will play coming of a torn achilles. IMO...This team will go as far as Tom Brady can carry them this year and probably next year. It's too bad Belichick's mediocre defenses have wasted the prime years of a once-in-a-lifetime QB like Brady.

If Wilfork doesn't return to form, then they'll be vulnerable on the DL. But if he does, they could have a defense in the discussion for league's best, depending what happens with Spikes and Talib, and particularly if Armstead can play.

If Mayo were still in, their defense would still be solid, even without Wilfork, though. It's losing all three of those guys that hurts so much - of their top run defenders, only Spikes isn't on IR. No team in the league is going to absorb that concentration of critical injuries and still have a stout run defense.

 

[JDM]

You don't keep a defense dominant forever. At some point you have to scrap it and start over, and this takes time. The patriots have been a legitimate contender every year since their last win, and while being there isn't good enough, will be in the picture every year for the rest of Brady's career.

Why do you think no one's done more than four with the same QB? The fact that your best complaint is that they don't have the most is a testament to how good they have been.

 

[JDM]

Your opinion never counts as it relates to evaluating talent, you are always way to biased.

You're always wrong. Vereen can do far more than woodhead and do most of those things far better.

 

[Drawmeomg]

I would take Vereen over Woodhead any day. I mean, the Chargers' woes can be summed up as, "Danny Woodhead is their best skill position player."

I like him, I like the underdog story, I like what he does on the field, but he's undertalented.

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

You're always wrong. Vereen can do far more than woodhead and do most of those things far better.

Yeah that was my point. But still your opinion on the matter doesn't matter.

 

[eric5577x]

Your as good as out depth. NE has very bad depth. Once Vince, Kelly, Mayo went down, then Talib, Dennard and Gregory, this def went to shit. We have a 7th rd pick, and UDFA starting on the DL. We have 2 reaches in Harmon and Ryan starting in the secondary. This team is getting killed up the middle, and that did not happen to start the season. Your as good as the next guy in!

 

[JDM]

Yeah that was my point. But still your opinion on the matter doesn't matter.

Because I know who sucks and who is good?

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

Because I know who sucks and who is good?

No because you think you do

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

Your as good as out depth. NE has very bad depth. Once Vince, Kelly, Mayo went down, then Talib, Dennard and Gregory, this def went to shit. We have a 7th rd pick, and UDFA starting on the DL. We have 2 reaches in Harmon and Ryan starting in the secondary. This team is getting killed up the middle, and that did not happen to start the season. Your as good as the next guy in!

Okay but you just listed 6 defenseive starterts that is more than half the defense, aint to many teams in the league that can over come that.

 

[eric5577x]

Okay but you just listed 6 defenseive starterts that is more than half the defense, aint to many teams in the league that can over come that.

Exactly, they were solid when all healthy and bailed out the offense. now its the other way around. Def is not good, need to offense to bail us out.

 

[MrMoJoRisin63]

Exactly, they were solid when all healthy and bailed out the offense. now its the other way around. Def is not good, need to offense to bail us out.

But your missing the point. That is a huge amount to over come. Most teams might lose 2 players at once seldomly six. Did you really expect them to be even remotely close to the week one defense? The advantage is that they are getting quality time and the team is getting wins, this will be beneficial in the future. We started (5) rookies this week you have to expect mistakes there is a huge learning curve in the NFL. But on the field exp and film room will develope these guys a lot faster.

 

[eric5577x]

I think we are talking the same thing here Mojo. I did not expect them to be as good as week 1, but as I said before, they are making the plays when it counts. Your as good as the next man in, if that next man in is not a good, your gonna have issues. Look at Atl, they are destroyed on both sides of the ball. I am just glad the offense got healthy when the def got hurt.

 

[briz almighty]

you can view trading for talib part of the draft cuz they spent a 4th on him. if they didnt trade for him you can be sure they would have tried to draft a #1 corner. dennard in the 7th was a gift from god. they screwed up with armstead, thought they had an interior guy sorta like watt that could bring pressure inside, which is what we really needed playing a 4-3 defense. him not seeing the field was huge blow. chandler jones at one end finally started the transformation, still need another end opposite him. i dont like the pats trading down so much but for the past few drafts they have made some good picks to move to a 4-3. they got an edge rusher in jones and added two press man cover corners. the d started the season off at an elite level until injuries hit, our corners getting dinged up and missing time. fully healthy the d was elite, still need anither edge rusher and strong safey but cant get everything at once. it will take only a few more pieces to be perfect but the scary thing is injuries can knock them back very far. it took alot to get the d up to speed we werent blessed with talent everywhere, thats why a few injuries can be devestating. as long as dennard and talib are healthy for the playoffs we can still play at a high level.

 

[eric5577x]

you can view trading for talib part of the draft cuz they spent a 4th on him. if they didnt trade for him you can be sure they would have tried to draft a #1 corner. dennard in the 7th was a gift from god. they screwed up with armstead, thought they had an interior guy sorta like watt that could bring pressure inside, which is what we really needed playing a 4-3 defense. him not seeing the field was huge blow. chandler jones at one end finally started the transformation, still need another end opposite him. i dont like the pats trading down so much but for the past few drafts they have made some good picks to move to a 4-3. they got an edge rusher in jones and added two press man cover corners. the d started the season off at an elite level until injuries hit, our corners getting dinged up and missing time. fully healthy the d was elite, still need anither edge rusher and strong safey but cant get everything at once. it will take only a few more pieces to be perfect but the scary thing is injuries can knock them back very far. it took alot to get the d up to speed we werent blessed with talent everywhere, thats why a few injuries can be devestating. as long as dennard and talib are healthy for the playoffs we can still play at a high level.

I think we might have that pass rusher in Buchannon. I would like to see more of him.

 

[briz almighty]

mm i dunno, edge rushers u usually need to spend a high pick on those puppies. the defense would be fine if seattle didnt steal my binky irvin. thats the problem for us we never have high enough picks to get studs. and on top of that bb loves trading down. hate it trade up!

 

[JDM]

you can view trading for talib part of the draft cuz they spent a 4th on him. if they didnt trade for him you can be sure they would have tried to draft a #1 corner. dennard in the 7th was a gift from god. they screwed up with armstead, thought they had an interior guy sorta like watt that could bring pressure inside, which is what we really needed playing a 4-3 defense. him not seeing the field was huge blow. chandler jones at one end finally started the transformation, still need another end opposite him. i dont like the pats trading down so much but for the past few drafts they have made some good picks to move to a 4-3. they got an edge rusher in jones and added two press man cover corners. the d started the season off at an elite level until injuries hit, our corners getting dinged up and missing time. fully healthy the d was elite, still need anither edge rusher and strong safey but cant get everything at once. it will take only a few more pieces to be perfect but the scary thing is injuries can knock them back very far. it took alot to get the d up to speed we werent blessed with talent everywhere, thats why a few injuries can be devestating. as long as dennard and talib are healthy for the playoffs we can still play at a high level.

How do you screw up with a zero risk, decent upside move? He hasn't even cost a roster spot and there's no possible downside.

 

[eric5577x]

mm i dunno, edge rushers u usually need to spend a high pick on those puppies. the defense would be fine if seattle didnt steal my binky irvin. thats the problem for us we never have high enough picks to get studs. and on top of that bb loves trading down. hate it trade up!

LOL....I was all over Irvin myself that yr....Buchannon was projected as a 2nd rd pick as a Jr. He got into a fight, or trued to beak one up and got his jaw broke. He had it wired shut for awhile and he lost 20pds. I think as a Jr he had 15 sacks, I could be wrong. Then as a SR he was playing way under weight and was getting held in check by the OT. I read that BB worked him out alone. I like what I have seen so far, lets hope Carter can teach him a thing or 2.

 

[bunchofpixels]

I agree that the defense should be better with the amount of draft picks invested in it. That being said it was looking like the defense was shaping up to be top 10 this year before all the injuries hit.

Even with the lack of statistical success in the regular season for the Patriots defense, they havent been that bad in the playoffs, and I would say the defense is what won the AFC Championship game against the Ravens a couple of years back(with the help of a missed FG of course).

Bottom line is the Patriots need to get better on drafting defensive players most notably the DBs and hopefully stop drafting big linebackers that cant cover in the early rounds.

 

[TKO]

you can view trading for talib part of the draft cuz they spent a 4th on him. if they didnt trade for him you can be sure they would have tried to draft a #1 corner. dennard in the 7th was a gift from god. they screwed up with armstead, thought they had an interior guy sorta like watt that could bring pressure inside, which is what we really needed playing a 4-3 defense. him not seeing the field was huge blow. chandler jones at one end finally started the transformation, still need another end opposite him. i dont like the pats trading down so much but for the past few drafts they have made some good picks to move to a 4-3. they got an edge rusher in jones and added two press man cover corners. the d started the season off at an elite level until injuries hit, our corners getting dinged up and missing time. fully healthy the d was elite, still need anither edge rusher and strong safey but cant get everything at once. it will take only a few more pieces to be perfect but the scary thing is injuries can knock them back very far. it took alot to get the d up to speed we werent blessed with talent everywhere, thats why a few injuries can be devestating. as long as dennard and talib are healthy for the playoffs we can still play at a high level.

Good luck getting another stud DE opposite Jones briz. They signed Ninkovich to a $15 mil 4 yr deal so he's here until 2017. It's part of the master plan... rolls eyes. IMO, they wouldn't have a very good pass rush even if everyone was healthy. They need to add some blue chip players to the front seven instead of whatever it is they've been doing because it ain't working.

 

[briz almighty]

if they were healthy and had armstead in there i think it would have been pretty good, not the best it could be cuz we need another de opposite jones. but armstead was supposed to be our Suh inside and he never seen the field. that pisses me off cuz i would have drafted a dt if we knew that was gunna be the case. so right now we are patching and theres nothing we can do about it. it'll get fixed this draft and offseason. resign talib and spikes, target a dt, de, or ss top of the draft, sign a cb in free agency to add depth and we golden.